7-Up Pai Gow Poker

Quote: y2d2

What's the math on the bonus paytable?

I don't know what the math is but I sat there and I saw people got pay 40-1 twice within 40 minutes. I heard the ace high push comes more often than the ez dragon 40-1 on baccarat.

Quote: bitcoin

I don't know what the math is but I sat there and I saw people got pay 40-1 twice within 40 minutes. I heard the ace high push comes more often than the ez dragon 40-1 on baccarat.

One of the key obvious differences without even knowing the math is that you must bet on the right hand, whereas the dragon 40-1 and other dealer ace-high is table-wide.

Quote: bitcoin

The no commissions just started yesterday. Also loving that 40-1 odds ace high push. Like I said before, will never play any other version paigow or regular paigow again. Loving 7 up paigow! The only problem is the seat is hard to find. I wish they have more 7 up paigow tables.

when it's so good for players, this game will not survive on the floor. It will be gone soon after the director has looked at the numbers. Go play as soon as u can, but playing for s long time after statistics kicks in.

Quote: UCivan

when it's so good for players, this game will not survive on the floor. It will be gone soon after the director has looked at the numbers. Go play as soon as u can, but playing for s long time after statistics kicks in.

Is that why baccarat failed and no one knows what it is anymore?

Regular baccarat (not EZ baccarat) has never failed. May i suggest you visit Vegas? Baccarat saved vegas when the economy doomed several years ago. As always, for example, Gold Coast has 7 tables (not EZ baccarat) , Orleans has 8 tables. They are always packed 7 days a week, 24 hours a day. Casino is a commodity now. Note that not every table game suits every community. Some games work well in vegas, but do not work in CA. Games u do not see in CA could be popular elsewhere.

Does Thunder Valley have Tie Max Baccarat? I played it at Casino M8trix, San Jose. It pays 50 to 1 when u hit it. It's a giod bet. Vegas has it in 3-4 casinos too.

EZ baccarat just hides the commission in one of banker's winning hands. It helps casino in hands per hour; casino still keep the same house edge. In CA cardrooms care about speed, because house makes money on $1 commission.

There is a lot going on in gaming industry.

Quote: UCivan

Regular baccarat (not EZ baccarat) has never failed. May i suggest you visit Vegas? Baccarat saved vegas when the economy doomed several years ago. As always, for example, Gold Coast has 7 tables (not EZ baccarat) , Orleans has 8 tables. They are always packed 7 days a week, 24 hours a day. Casino is a commodity now. Note that not every table game suits every community. Some games work well in vegas, but do not work in CA. Games u do not see in CA could be popular elsewhere.

Does Thunder Valley have Tie Max Baccarat? I played it at Casino M8trix, San Jose. It pays 50 to 1 when u hit it. It's a giod bet. Vegas has it in 3-4 casinos too.

EZ baccarat just hides the commission in one of banker's winning hands. It helps casino in hands per hour; casino still keep the same house edge. In CA cardrooms care about speed, because house makes money on $1 commission.

There is a lot going on in gaming industry.

I think he was being sarcastic.

Again, as others have mentioned, I think the friendliness of this game is being exaggerated. You're still playing a 1.6% house game, and variance is coming.

Quote: Deucekies

I think he was being sarcastic.

Correct.

As in, baccarat has among the lowest house edge in the building, yet is the most well known and pretty much the most played game as well. And among the most profitable for the house, I suppose because gamblers are gamblers.

Thank you for the opportunity to (1) share information on this forum (2) show off my knowledge about gaming.

I've read through a majority of the posts here. I am a bit puzzled about the Pai-Gow Ace-High. It is shown to be 9.79% chance. At the WoO site, the various side-bets that feature payment for such hand indicate

14430780 / 154143080 = 9.362% approx.

I would ask if the "Dealer's Pai Gow Hand" of 9.79% is based upon the deal of 7 cards (random hand) to the Customer first.

Thanks
98Clubs

Quote: 98Clubs

I've read through a majority of the posts here. I am a bit puzzled about the Pai-Gow Ace-High. It is shown to be 9.79% chance. At the WoO site, the various side-bets that feature payment for such hand indicate

14430780 / 154143080 = 9.362% approx.

I would ask if the "Dealer's Pai Gow Hand" of 9.79% is based upon the deal of 7 cards (random hand) to the Customer first.

Thanks
98Clubs

Dealing procedures for pgp in nearly every case (pgp mania is one exception ) is that hand distribution is always randomized. There is no dealer first or player first on any given hand. Once the deck is ready, either dice are shaken or an independent number from 1 to 7 is selected to receive the first hand. Dealer is number 1. All hands are dealt out, then discarded if not played.

So, the 9.79% occurrence is based on the dealer's expected rate of an ace high hand without regard to the order of hands received. It's just not a factor in the calculation.

Just to confirm... without commission, this has a lower house edge than standard PGP with 5% commission on wins, correct?

Only winning hands pay 5% commidsion. Without detailed analysis, I think player wins about 48% of hands, so the house edge drops about 2.4%

Quote: UCivan

Only winning hands pay 5% commidsion. Without detailed analysis, I think player wins about 48% of hands, so the house edge drops about 2.4%

Nope.

No commission. I just said that.

Quote: UCivan

Only winning hands pay 5% commission. Without detailed analysis, I think player wins about 48% of hands, so the house edge drops about 2.4%

Let me slow down with my own answer.

In the commissioned version, only the winning hands pay 5% commission, not the losing and pushing hands. Therefore, removing the commission will benefit players only on their winning hands, not the losing / pushing hands. Let's assume player wins about 48% of hands overall. Why 48%, not 50-50, it's because dealer wins "copied" hands and pushes qualifying hands. (This 48% is a wild guess without math analysis.) Therefore, the reduction in House Edge is 5% x 48% = 2.4%.

Quote: RoyalBJ

Let me slow down with my own answer.

In the commissioned version, only the winning hands pay 5% commission, not the losing and pushing hands. Therefore, removing the commission will benefit players only on their winning hands, not the losing / pushing hands. Let's assume player wins about 48% of hands overall. Why 48%, not 50-50, it's because dealer wins "copied" hands and pushes qualifying hands. (This 48% is a wild guess without math analysis.) Therefore, the reduction in House Edge is 5% x 48% = 2.4%.

Pretty sure there are more pushes than wins/losses. Particularly in this variant. IIRC standard PGP has something in the neighborhood of 40% push

May be 30% pushes, then 38-32 for win-loss spread. With no commission, the house edge drops 5% x 38% = 1.9 %

Thanks to 7up PGP, I think I quit PGP for good. All variations, including 7up.

I like to bet on different spots at different times, and casino-style PGP doesn't allow you to do this very easily, often, or at all. For instance at TVC, depending on who is the dealer or pit staff on duty, there will be different sets of rules, such as whether you can side-bet a hand at all, which hands you can side-bet, how many, or whether you can side-bet without a seat. It all differs, depending on whatever rule the pit boss on duty decides to make up. This makes it extremely frustrating and annoys the f!#/ out of me. Put in enough play to go from brand new red card to President level within a week, but still get treated like this. F!#/ that noise.

And after playing 7up PGP, the normal variation is very frustrating to play and I just refuse to play it anymore.

Maybe TVC can fix the ambiguous and ever-changing side bet rule, if they want a chance at getting their $25k back. Maybe I'll revisit 7up PGP when there are places with more than one always-full table or if/when it ever makes its way to cardrooms. Until then, good luck getting any serious players or anyone who bets more than $15 a hand bringing $200 bankroll and playing at a crawling slow-mo pace and can't figure out how to set a hand correctly even with dealer hand face up.

Quote: Deucekies

I'm guessing that if the player gets to see the dealer's made hand before setting his own, a savvy houseway would defend the two-card hand as much as possible.

Not the case at TVC.

I believe all small two pairs below 6's (33/22, 55/44) are kept together in the back regardless of two-card hand. Gets played as 98/55443 instead of 44/55983.

I believe even queens gets played two pair behind in the presence of an ace, if the smaller pair is less than 6's.

Y2,

Edited you for profanity. Warning; no F-bombs. Board is PG. Thank you.

Speaking personally , sorry to hear they're being inconsistent. Very frustrating to plan your play one way, just to have it arbitrarily change.

7 up paigow poker at Thunder Valley casino now has two tables going and it's still hard to find a seat. On weekend I have to wait 2-3 hrs for an open seat. The game has been going for about four months now, and its still going strong at TVC. In the last four months I noticed there are more progressive jackpots hit on this game then the regular paigow poker tables. Is it because of more hands per hour? I noticed this 7 up paigow game is way faster than a regular paigow game.

I checked out this game at Thunder Valley on Friday. They now have three tables open and it is fairly popular. The game is fun to play. Your best advantage over the game is when you have two pair as it makes dealer split two pairs push-able or winnable as you can always put two pairs in your bottom hand to push a dealer two pair. There were of course a number of A-highs which made your hand moot.

It is commission free.

It does not play much faster as people still take their times to set their hand and when the dealer has A-high (the push) you still set your hand if you have a Fortune bonus. It is a bit faster as payout is faster but the game play is about the same. You toss your hand in when you know you've lost. (you toss in against an A-high push as well).

They feature the standard fortune side bet and the Aces side-bet, as well as the G3 Progressive at double the bet ($2). At a jackpot of $110K, it was a ripoff though they did have envy + 7 card dealer SF as winnable hands. Still I estimate a 40% HA on this bet.

You can develop bad habits playing this game. Since you are setting your hand to push or win you will do stupid things like set your winning hand to "just beat" the dealer. For example, if you have two pair with an A 10 9 and the dealer has an 10-8 up in the back you will have fun and put the 10-9 down in the back instead of the A-10.

I liked it. You build your own suspense by slowly opening your hand.

I played some PGP this weekend in Vegas which is not my normal game....was with some millennials and they were running out of bankroll, so the slow pace of teaching them PGP was an answer. There were times when I said, if I was playing that 7 Up PGP, I could have set my hand differently for a better outcome. Not a lot of hands, but I distinctly remember a few.