Rumour about casino cheating on Shufflemaster games

Oh, sorry I didn't relate it-
That whole theory is highly improbable-
The 10-15 percent of bankroll for a win rate based on varying bets is absolute bunk

Especially if playing against crooked shfl shuffler, that is as sure

I don't think the iDeal randomizes the cards sufficiently. I think the use of the shuffler changes the house edge on certain games, depending on other factors. I didn't always believe that, but some very smart people have convinced me otherwise. I think that the edge swings slightly towards the house a little more due to the rules of some of the carnival games, but it might be something like 4% vs 3% HA.

Wouldn't it be more productive to bet big when you win. Eliminate the hunches.

Wassup Bill

If it's not random then it's exploitable it's amazing that no one is taking advantage of this situation.

Quote: AxelWolf

If it's not random then it's exploitable it's amazing that no one is taking advantage of this situation.

Think about it and you'll realize that it's not true. For example, if a packet of 3 cards are slightly more likely to be a pair in 3CP, that favors the house due to the rules of the game. Even moving things slightly 1% a direction or another is not enough to impact carnival games with a high HA.

Quote: tongni

Think about it and you'll realize that it's not true. For example, if a packet of 3 cards are slightly more likely to be a pair in 3CP, that favors the house due to the rules of the game. Even moving things slightly 1% a direction or another is not enough to impact carnival games with a high HA.

So they input the number of players at the table each round?

Quote: tongni

I don't think the iDeal randomizes the cards sufficiently. I think the use of the shuffler changes the house edge on certain games, depending on other factors. I didn't always believe that, but some very smart people have convinced me otherwise. I think that the edge swings slightly towards the house a little more due to the rules of some of the carnival games, but it might be something like 4% vs 3% HA.

If a casino is using a biased or rigged shuffler that would require 100% surveillance to make sure no employees are colluding with gamblers. Hardly seems worth the trade off.

Everytime I colluded with an casino employee, he was survelliance.

What????

Quote: wdtcf

Shuffle Master machine has a designed capacity for a wireless interface, I.e., the machine can be influenced/manipulated remotely. The gentleman on the phone went on to say that this is clearly stated in the patent for the Shuffle Master machine.

Food for thought, eh?

Food for thought for a Hacker .

I think i can provide some perspective on this thread. I spent years researching gaming patents with shuffle machines & even technology using nano fibered cards that could refract light in such a way that it could show a different face than the one being dealt. Bally had such a patent that described a system of dealing cards that could use several methods to do this. The reason for my research was to figure out how my poker hands could come out in such non random ways. I played 6 days a week for years & had numerous situations happen over & over that were way beyond what could happen if the cards were random. Im a world class player with good results & a consistent winner in high stakes games with a vast knowledge of statistics & game theory. Ive had winning years where i won over 90% of my sessions only to turn around & lose 80% the next year. Ive sat in 6 handed games with over 500 hands dealt & was never dealt a winner if id played every hand to the river, ive also witnessed others win 80% of the hands in a full ring game over hours of play. I once bet on 6 numbers at a crap table & got paid on 1 number over 9 rolls, on the 9 th roll id didnt have enough $ to bet the 4 but had all 5 other numbers, the 1st 5 rolls were 44444 then out. I went home got more $ came back. I swapped to the dont come & laid the 4. I lost 8 times on the 4 before swapping to the 10 where i lost 7 times before winning my 16th lay. I was 2/1 to win each bet, thats the equivalent of losing 30 coin flips. How can i bet 6 numbers for 9 rolls & not hit any, tgen bet against 1 number thats hardest to hit during 1 roll & lose 15 times all while watching the dice roll the number that i left off 5 times the one time i didnt bet it without hitting any other number. A trillion to 1 wouldnt get you close to the odds against that, yet its a true story. What ive figured out after 12 years of gambling for a living is that luck is a metaphysical phenomenon. Gambling isnt random in the way we think it should be as math guys. Everything in life is a vibration at its core, all matter is nothing but massless particles vibrating at billions of times per second, an electrostatic force. Reality is more akin to a hologram. Anything can & does happen. Even Stephen Hawkin has changed his views to say we live in a multiverse. We are multidimensional beings living in a multidimensional reality, a matrix of possibilities within a universe made of unlimited energy. We perceive physical reality with our senses, an electrical signal, but there is an undercurrent to reality. A mysterious force that the ancients have known about for thousands of years & quantum physics is just now starting to prove. I could tell of numerous absolutely amazing stories involving gambling that are extraordinary , anyone which proves there are other forces at work. Our left brain tries to justify the variance by saying its the law of large numbers & anything can happen even when faced with absolute proof that math isnt the whole story. Some people have more even luck while others have polarizing luck, astrology has some of the answers to these questions. There are 52 cards for weeks in year, 4 suit for seasons, 12 court for zodiac & 13 ranks for lunar months. Dice also represent the zodiac with its 12 dots while each number at roulette signifies a planet . Jupiter rules 3 in numerology, this is why 3 12 21 & 30 are all red as they all reduce to 3 . Saturn numbers are black. Until gamblers realize this, there will always be conspiracy theories regarding cheating because in the end there are only 2 choices when 2 + 2 doesnt equal 4. Either weve been cheated or there is a mysterious order to the universe that most are not aware of & not ready to understand. Most closed minded math types will have a hard time grasping these concepts, but i ask them to explain life & conciousness. You cant explain phenomenon outside the physical realm of perception with newtonian physics that only work within that realm. Happy Gambling

Perspective!
Pah! what a load of [Insert Expletive]

Omg I can't believe I wasted my time reading that

I suggest you explore ongoing developments in string theory to aid you in your trip down the rabbit hole.

Let us know when and how you discover the force/power which deliberately affects/influences reality to cause one person to win and another to lose on any given roll of the dice or turn of the card.

Quote: wdtcf

Specifically regarding Pai Gow Poker Shuffle Master machines. These machines can not only read the cards and inform the user of card order subsequent to a deal of cards for verification purposes, but they can also take a deck of shuffled cards and unshuffle the cards and put them in the order that the originally came out of the unopened box. This is a programmable machine.

I called Shuffle Master a few years back and they confirmed that the Shuffle Master machine has a designed capacity for a wireless interface, I.e., the machine can be influenced/manipulated remotely. The gentleman on the phone went on to say that this is clearly stated in the patent for the Shuffle Master machine.

So, given that the Shuffle Master machines are designed to be programmable and have wireless interfaces, it seems:

- all the posts on this thread were wrong about how ShuffleMaster would never do anything to allow their users the option of altering the integrity of their automated shuffling machines. The machines do indeed have this capability, as openly declared by Shuffle Master. So, Shuffle Master's business position is that they have not acted in bad faith -everything has been disclosed.
- IMO, it is likely that a software program for Shuffle Master machines does exist somewhere in this wide world for influencing the cards in favor of the dealer
- shuffler machines need not be individually re-programmed, a single program on a laptop or desktop computer would suffice. In fact, it would take nothing more than an app on a smartphone (together with the passwords for accessing the machines).

-and the gaming regulations - at the federal level and casino level - do not explicitly call out automated shufflers for regulation or require any kind of internal controls to ensure that the automated shufflers are not occasionally "reprogrammed."

This situation appears to be wide open for abuse. Certainly, at least in Indian-casinos, gamblers who want an honest table game must trust in the good intentions and high moral character of the casinos. LMAO.

According to multiverse theory & quantum mechanics there are endless possibilities , the observer itself creates the reality & freezes these possibilities into 1 reality. This is contrary to what newtonian physics has believed for hundreds of years, but times change, the earth is round not flat & the nature of reality is being is slowly being unveiled. For guys that think your intelligent, you should broaden your knowledge a little & open your minds. Mountains of evidence exist to prove conciousness plays a role in seemingly random events. Bohr & Einstein once had s debate about whether or not the moon exist if we werent there to observe it. The phenomenon that people are describing about the feeling of being cheated is nothing other than the effect of astrology on gambling, astrology works as it is a reflection of the default subconcious programming when were born. Its a reflection of the experiences we will attract to ourselves. Law of attraction proponents believe we can conciously change that preconditioning that were are born with to create our on realities. Ive experienced manifesting certain events in the short term but not with control. Great men such as george washington, ben franklin, thomas jefferson, sir francis bacon, leonardo devinci, walt disney & many more belonged to secret societies such as the rosicrucians or freemasons which are metaphysical societies. They study things such as astrology & the nature of reality. America was founded on these principles & the symbolism hidden in plain sight for all to see who search for wisdom. There are phenomenon in gambling that cant be described using newtonian physics & only understood when realizing the physical world is more of an illusion designed to help us experience. Conciousness exist outside of the body , simliar to a wireless transmission exist separate to the cell phone or tv set. Our brains only interpret the signals.

Quote: gabe.costner

According to multiverse theory & quantum mechanics there are endless possibilities , the observer itself creates the reality & freezes these possibilities into 1 reality. This is contrary to what newtonian physics has believed for hundreds of years, but times change, the earth is round not flat & the nature of reality is being is slowly being unveiled. For guys that think your intelligent, you should broaden your knowledge a little & open your minds. Mountains of evidence exist to prove conciousness plays a role in seemingly random events. Bohr & Einstein once had s debate about whether or not the moon exist if we werent there to observe it. The phenomenon that people are describing about the feeling of being cheated is nothing other than the effect of astrology on gambling, astrology works as it is a reflection of the default subconcious programming when were born. Its a reflection of the experiences we will attract to ourselves. Law of attraction proponents believe we can conciously change that preconditioning that were are born with to create our on realities. Ive experienced manifesting certain events in the short term but not with control. Great men such as george washington, ben franklin, thomas jefferson, sir francis bacon, leonardo devinci, walt disney & many more belonged to secret societies such as the rosicrucians or freemasons which are metaphysical societies. They study things such as astrology & the nature of reality. America was founded on these principles & the symbolism hidden in plain sight for all to see who search for wisdom. There are phenomenon in gambling that cant be described using newtonian physics & only understood when realizing the physical world is more of an illusion designed to help us experience. Conciousness exist outside of the body , simliar to a wireless transmission exist separate to the cell phone or tv set. Our brains only interpret the signals.

It's better to just use easy math and get a real advantage. Show be the money.

And Gordon Ive already went down the road your going in much more detail. Its a dead end. The shufflemachines can read the cards & some have a sorting function to put them in setup order. Beyond that they work using an elevator & pin with pseudorandom number generator which functions on the pin. They were not capable of sorting cards in specific orders other than the setup sort. Other more dangerous technology was actually being able to change the face of the card using light refraction or chemical methods. This goes into great detail & involves some knowledge of optics & chemistry. This can be done however not feasible in a casino enviornment in many different locations. I played poker tonight for 1st time in a couple of weeks, 1st hand dealt in AQ, flop AQ5, i lose to flush. Next hand QQ on jack high board, i folded after suspecting i was beat by AA or kk, he had AA, i called shortstack all in AK against k9, board ran out kkx9x. I raised aq after 3 limpers, flop Q 35, i was against QQ in 3 way pot. I only played 6 hands in 50 minutes. Those were the only ones i connected with. I lost a 1000 stacked money that quick. The thing is, ive ran like that for years. Never getting the other end of the coolers. Ive ran kk into Aa 10x more than the other way around & i usually lose those with a king on flop. This happens in he games & casinos equally. There is no number or odds for anything like this continuing to happen over & over, but it does. I have a natal chart thats been bad for gambling really since 2009. If i take all the situations where the hands basically play themselves out, big hand over big hand. Ive been on the bad end 95% of those hands since that time. When i win, it all comes in 2 to 3 weeks. Ive won several hundred thousand playing poker in a few weeks time, only to watch it reverse 180 degrees the other way for years. The guys whove gambled for 10 plus years & still dont notice unrandom pattterns are either idiots or they have even luck & thus a conciousness that is closed off to experiencing anything out of the ordinary. Nonetheless, these people are ignorant of things outside what they perceive to be the truth.

Axel I play the same things you do, poker & all the AP slot machines. Its all based on math equity, but some people will win on almost all their plays for long periods while others can play with big math advantages & lose. When i win , i almost always win on multiple plays & days in a row, when i lose, i know im in a bad cycle & continue to lose until it changes.

Quote: gabe.costner

Axel I play the same things you do, poker & all the AP slot machines.

Highly doubtful.

If you play with big math advantages often you won't lose for long unless you sometime play extremely high denominations and tend to have all our losing streak then. And you tend to have all your winning streaks on low denominations.

Well thats what im telling you. Everyones luck isnt the same. I won 90% of my poker sessions for 6 years pretty much no losing months, when it changed i lost almost every session i played for 1.5 years, then had more poy final tables than anyone in country for 2008 , 1st year i left cash games to play tournies. Then same thing until 2010. I go through 4400 players in 1k get 3rd , had triple chip lead 3handed for bracelet then lose coolers to same guy back to back. Held the chip lead in main event under 50 players left, several other FT around that time. Then for 6 years since inleft there cant beat a drunk on saturday night with hand face up & im the best player on every table or at least as good as anyone ive played on the table with. I consistently run way below expectation on most everything while my friends play the same machines or whatever it is were doing at the time & win big. Maurice Hawkins for example, wins back to back rings in council bluffs, get 2nd in next stop at cherokee, wins main event there too, then chops next tournament at next stop in wpt deepstack. Ive cashed in 3 tournies in a row 5 times in my life, once 4 & once 5, ive also bricked 184 in row. Luck is a true occurence, cycles are real.

If your interested in discussing any machine plays wouldnt mind talking to you, im sure we play some of the same things but might get a couple of ideas from each other

stner]And Gordon Ive already went down the road your going in much more detail. Its a dead end. The shufflemachines can read the cards & some have a sorting function to put them in setup order. Beyond that they work using an elevator & pin with pseudorandom number generator which functions on the pin. They were not capable of sorting cards in specific orders other than the setup sort. Other more dangerous technology was actually being able to change the face of the card using light refraction or chemical methods. This goes into great detail & involves some knowledge of optics & chemistry. This can be done however not feasible in a casino enviornment in many different locations. I played poker tonight for 1st time in a couple of weeks, 1st hand dealt in AQ, flop AQ5, i lose to flush. Next hand QQ on jack high board, i folded after suspecting i was beat by AA or kk, he had AA, i called shortstack all in AK against k9, board ran out kkx9x. I raised aq after 3 limpers, flop Q 35, i was against QQ in 3 way pot. I only played 6 hands in 50 minutes. Those were the only ones i connected with. I lost a 1000 stacked money that quick. The thing is, ive ran like that for years. Never getting the other end of the coolers. Ive ran kk into Aa 10x more than the other way around & i usually lose those with a king on flop. This happens in he games & casinos equally. There is no number or odds for anything like this continuing to happen over & over, but it does. I have a natal chart thats been bad for gambling really since 2009. If i take all the situations where the hands basically play themselves out, big hand over big hand. Ive been on the bad end 95% of those hands since that time. When i win, it all comes in 2 to 3 weeks. Ive won several hundred thousand playing poker in a few weeks time, only to watch it reverse 180 degrees the other way for years. The guys whove gambled for 10 plus years & still dont notice unrandom pattterns are either idiots or they have even luck & thus a conciousness that is closed off to experiencing anything out of the ordinary. Nonetheless, these people are ignorant of things outside what they perceive to be the truth.

Gabe.Costner,
I completely understand what you went through bro. You are not the only one who is running worst in poker. I have been experiencing the same thing for years. Live cash games and tournaments could no longer be fair game. Like it or not I am going to be straightforward. It seems to me that the game is rigged in favour of WH*** people and those who deny this, it's because it works out for their benefits and they know it. I think that could be one of the main reasons why they have stupid mach***s in play. Another reason is that maybe casinos employ shills. If you don't see what i am talking about, go to your local poker room, sit down at the table or watch the game as a bystander. Pay attention who is winning day after day. No matter how good of a player you are, WH*** folks will suck the crap out of you with bs and collect all your money laughing. You should be able to play instead of worrying when they gonna steal money from you. I play a lot and casinos make it so obvious. I quit playing live cash games and tournaments because of this. Traditional hand shuffle is a MUST.

I am interested in discussing with you about this topic. Give me your email we can start from there

Shuffle Masters is owned by Bally. A Bally representative told me personally that these machines can read the cards they all have cameras inside them. If you look at the machines they are mini computers. They have computer components and Lil computer fans to keep them cool. This isn't
rocket science people! Telll me people how does a computer work? ITS PROGRAMMED!!!!!!!!The Bally representative also told me that these machines can be REMOTELY PROGRAMED 🚩🚩 🚩 🚩🚩 🚩🚩 🚩 OF COURSE THESE CASINO S ARE CHEATING US. THIS WHOLE IDEA OF A AP IS A WEAK EXCUSE BECAUSE NOW ITS FINALLY COMING OUT AND THEY CANT HIDE IT. THE FACT IS THAT THEY DO THIS TO ANYONE AND.EVERYONE WHENEVER THEY FEEL LIKE!

Quote: SYBS4S1E

REMOTELY PROGRAMED 🚩🚩 🚩 🚩🚩 🚩🚩 🚩 OF COURSE THESE CASINO S ARE CHEATING US. THIS WHOLE IDEA OF A AP IS A WEAK EXCUSE BECAUSE NOW ITS FINALLY COMING OUT AND THEY CANT HIDE IT. THE FACT IS THAT THEY DO THIS TO ANYONE AND.EVERYONE WHENEVER THEY FEEL LIKE!

The excessive use of all caps is rather annoying. Do you shout half of what you say in real life?

Of course this guy claims this is unfactual he works there!!!!

I'm sorry my money is being stolen from me.. you like being ripped off!!!!!!!!!!

Quote: SYBS4S1E

Shuffle Masters is owned by Bally. A Bally representative told me personally that these machines can read the cards they all have cameras inside them. If you look at the machines they are mini computers. They have computer components and Lil computer fans to keep them cool. This isn't
rocket science people! Telll me people how does a computer work? ITS PROGRAMMED!!!!!!!!The Bally representative also told me that these machines can be REMOTELY PROGRAMED 🚩🚩 🚩 🚩🚩 🚩🚩 🚩 OF COURSE THESE CASINO S ARE CHEATING US. THIS WHOLE IDEA OF A AP IS A WEAK EXCUSE BECAUSE NOW ITS FINALLY COMING OUT AND THEY CANT HIDE IT. THE FACT IS THAT THEY DO THIS TO ANYONE AND.EVERYONE WHENEVER THEY FEEL LIKE!

Either you are exaggerating or the Bally Rep is. They can not be remotely programmed. Not all shufflers have card readers in them. There are no shufflers that can spot out chosen cards in deal mode.

Your false accusations are nothing new. Nothing is finally coming out. We've heard from a dozen just like you with no proof. I've seen the inside of the shuffler. I've seen the shuffler manuals. I've seen 3rd party testing results on how the shufflers function and what they are capable of. None of this, not one shred points to any manipulation or cheating. If it did I would expose it and make WAY more than my annual salary. So would a low level Bally employee.


ZCore13

Quote: Zcore13

Either you are exaggerating or the Bally Rep is. They can not be remotely programmed. Not all shufflers have card readers in them. There are no shufflers that can spot out chosen cards in deal mode.

Your false accusations are nothing new. Nothing is finally coming out. We've heard from a dozen just like you with no proof. I've seen the inside of the shuffler. I've seen the shuffler manuals. I've seen 3rd party testing results on how the shufflers function and what they are capable of. None of this, not one shred points to any manipulation or cheating. If it did I would expose it and make WAY more than my annual salary. So would a low level Bally employee.


ZCore13

Want to pass a manual my way or was it the one to six csm if it’s an md3 asm please kind sir give me something for free

I never trust the shuffler machine, NEVER, I don’t care who certifies it (even God) to be honest and never rigged. These machines can read the image of the cards to know exactly what cards it is be it a 10 or 2 and arrange them in the order of how many hands are played at the table with the help of the dealer. My co-worker played at Hawaiian garden casino once and witnessed something that can attest to this. The shuffler malfunctioned the threw out a bunch of cards on the table; game was stopped for a few minutes, supervisor came by to make sure that they got the 2 cards that were dealt to the dealer correctly in the order that it threw out; he came by and flip up two cards 10 and 5 and said to everyone; yeah, these were the right two cards of the dealers. How the fk did he even know those 10 and 5 belonged to the dealer? Those who are still adamant about the impossibility of these machines having the ability to detect, read, and arrange cards in a certain way is either having their personal interest vested in this gambling industry or are too addicted to gambling to accept that their hobby is not as great as a 2% optimal house edge as they would like to believe. Just ask those who have played with hand shuffler vs machine shuffler and they’ll tell you their win ratio is drastically different with the hand shuffler. Do I gamble at casino? Yes, I do. Do I believe the casinos are CHEATERS? Of course, I do believe they are cheating otherwise they would go out of business with just a 2% house edge. I view gambling at a casino is like throwing money away at the lottery for fun, but I never believe in my life that casino owners are honest people like priests.

That is why you unexpectedly jump from one hand to two at random times. If the dealer sets the cards for four hand but you add a fifth hand, all the chicanery is for naught. Thru discipline and proper hydration, good will triumph.

Quote: sqd49

I never trust the shuffler machine, NEVER, I don’t care who certifies it (even God) to be honest and never rigged. These machines can read the image of the cards to know exactly what cards it is be it a 10 or 2 and arrange them in the order of how many hands are played at the table with the help of the dealer. My co-worker played at Hawaiian garden casino once and witnessed something that can attest to this. The shuffler malfunctioned the threw out a bunch of cards on the table; game was stopped for a few minutes, supervisor came by to make sure that they got the 2 cards that were dealt to the dealer correctly in the order that it threw out; he came by and flip up two cards 10 and 5 and said to everyone; yeah, these were the right two cards of the dealers. How the fk did he even know those 10 and 5 belonged to the dealer? Those who are still adamant about the impossibility of these machines having the ability to detect, read, and arrange cards in a certain way is either having their personal interest vested in this gambling industry or are too addicted to gambling to accept that their hobby is not as great as a 2% optimal house edge as they would like to believe. Just ask those who have played with hand shuffler vs machine shuffler and they’ll tell you their win ratio is drastically different with the hand shuffler. Do I gamble at casino? Yes, I do. Do I believe the casinos are CHEATERS? Of course, I do believe they are cheating otherwise they would go out of business with just a 2% house edge. I view gambling at a casino is like throwing money away at the lottery for fun, but I never believe in my life that casino owners are honest people like priests.

you need to trust yourself and what you see and stop listening these nay-sayers. take a browse through my posts. the issue with the shufflers is that they set up situations. these situations mostly are traps. these traps have only one way of profiting or getting your money back - surrendering. any other situations you MUST play PERFECT basic strategy. the shufflers are setup minus the house edge. Keep in mind playing abnormally will change your future results. Usually playing the wrong way will end up activating what I think is something called a "Grim Trigger". if you veer or "defect" as its called you have a 50 percent chance whether or not you will screw something up for yourself. This grim trigger will not last forever and you will eventually land back on track to where you would have eventually been before. Very difficult and almost impossible to say "coulda shoulda woulda" because after two rounds or more you will lose track.

Quote: sqd49

Just ask those who have played with hand shuffler vs machine shuffler and they’ll tell you their win ratio is drastically different with the hand shuffler.

Perhaps it is because machine shuffled shoes are more neutral, and less likely to have rich sections, than hand shuffled ones.

The machines are not rigged. A ten-shelf shuffler will provide more randomness than hand shuffling any day. Especially poor hand shuffling.

The more a deck is shuffled, the more random the results.

"..using our theory, we were able to show that a knowledgeable player could guess about 9 1/2 cards correctly in a single run through a 52-card deck. For a well-shuffled deck, the optimal strategy gets about 4 1/2 cards correct." - P. Diaconis