The NEW table games of the Table games conference at MB

Guys,
We saw some awesome stuff at the Raving tables games Conference at the Mandalay Bay. The Wizard himself was there inspecting each and every item. And Everyone from the Wizard and down to Casino managers across the nation and the World (Macau, Australia, and Singapore) where there, too.

Not a LOT of people, but the handful of REAL decision-makers were there.

I was there as a distributor, but I won't offer comments - YET!

You each got a sales-pitch blurb on each item - as to what YOU WANNA see - so vote 'em, here and now...

PaiGowDan.

Quote: Paigowdan

You each got a sales-pitch blurb on each item...

We did?

EZ Pai Gow is the only one I ever heard of.

A descriptive one-liner for each, above

Is the "pure, commission-free" EZ-Pai Gow different than the variant where all hands push on a Bankers' Q-high Pai Gow?

>Bet your Luck Tiny Roulette
How does this differ from real roulette?
>Three Card Poker-based Baccarat "Wish Card Poker"
Sounds too confusing for me to even consider.
>EZ Pai Gow - Pure Commission-free
I like the sound of that word "free".
>New Dice layout - hardways are Place bets - fascin
Strange.
>Hi-Low Paigow Poker - bet on each hand side, too!
I thought side bets were for suckers.
>Alphabet Roulette - it uses letters instead
What? Suppose some one from South America bets. They say "ahh" when they mean "A" and they say "eh" when they mean "E".
>DEQ G3 progressive side bet
I don't even know what a DEQ-G3 Non-progressive game is.

A lot of...creative...games at the show. Here is quick run down of some of them:

Bet Your Luck: This is the first fan tan variant I've ever seen. The game starts with a random number, like 85. Then they draw cards at random and deduct them from the total until the next card is too big to subtract without resulting in a negative number. Players bet on what the remainder will be at this point. You have to at least give it points for trying something different.

Jailhouse Poker: You can make an Arrest bet and Bail bet. Instead of a Flop there is a Flip. Perhaps not the best name for a game I've ever seen.

Deuces Wild: Kind of like Let it Ride, but with deuces and a joker wild. From Galaxy Gaming, so you'll likely see this out there soon.

Hi-Low Pai Gow Poker: This is PaiGowDan's competitor. In this one you can bet on your high and low hand individually, but must play by the house way if you do.

Seven Card Poker: This is a side bet for Texas Hold 'Em, based on the final seven cards.

Rabbit Hunter: The logo for this game is a white rabbit in the cross hairs of a hunter's scope. The one and only time I went hunting I shot a rabbit, and have felt badly about it ever since. Bad memories came flooding back to me. Now I'm depressed.

Roll 'em Hold 'em: Seems like a decent game. Too many rectangles on the layout. Circles are much more pleasing to the eye.

Pair me Up: A blackjack variant where pairs beat 21 points.

Prosperity Bonus Wager: Side bet for another game, I'm not sure which.

Rock and Roll 21: A three-card blackjack game. I won't bother to explain the rules.

Die Rich: I thought this game died at the Luxor, but it is still alive and kicking. I think the rules have been modified since its Vegas debut at the Luxor. Much like Jailhouse Poker, I'm not crazy about the name. I left the show thinking about jail, dieing, and dead rabbits.

High Card Poker: I haven't read the literature yet.

Super Bacc: Baccarat variant that allows players to raise.

Wish Card Poker: Cross between baccarat and poker.

Quote: Wizard

A lot of...creative...games at the show. Here is quick run down of some of them:

Rabbit Hunter: The logo for this game is a white rabbit in the cross hairs of a hunter's scope. The one and only time I went hunting I shot a rabbit, and have felt badly about it ever since. Bad memories came flooding back to me. Now I'm depressed.

But what if the rabbit were in an art gallery, and you had to shoot either the Rembrandt or the rabbit....?

Make a Wish
Not much info.
Alphabetic Roulette
Lots of info.
New Dice layout click on soft ways
Appears to offer hardway bets that stay up if the easy way is rolled, only losing to a 7.
deq g3 click on g3 life
A side bet / display thing. Looks cool.
Ok I'll leave the rest for someone else.

Quote: miplet

Alphabetic Roulette

How could I forget that one? I give them points for perseverance. Often seen in gaming shows, seldom seen in casinos. File that one with Spin-n-Win and Whoop Ass Poker.

Quote: FinsRule

But what if the rabbit were in an art gallery, and you had to shoot either the Rembrandt or the rabbit....?

Bye bye rabbit.

Some interesting stuff, most of those websites are terribly fugly though...

Smaller wheel in Alphabetic Roulette may translate to lesser footprint in the casino, but its 5.26 edge going down to 4.0 edge. Better would be to keep the present Roulette large numeric roulette wheel and comp roulette players a bit more generously. Same effect, no fuss.

Quote: FleaStiff

Smaller wheel in Alphabetic Roulette may translate to lesser footprint in the casino, but its 5.26 edge going down to 4.0 edge. Better would be to keep the present Roulette large numeric roulette wheel and comp roulette players a bit more generously. Same effect, no fuss.

I agree. That's a better solution. But I don't think it's quite the same effect. Only some of the incremental comp dollars will be used, but all of the difference between 5.26% and 4% would be realized. So the casino is actually coming out ahead by keeping the standard wheel and comping more.

Quote: rdw4potus

I agree. That's a better solution. But I don't think it's quite the same effect. Only some of the incremental comp dollars will be used, but all of the difference between 5.26% and 4% would be realized. So the casino is actually coming out ahead by keeping the standard wheel and comping more.

It'd be nice if the American's used the single 0 wheel like God and the French intended. It's like the current spread of 6:5 blackjack. It's just ain't right.

Make a Wish - I didn't quite get what they are trying to do.


Alphabetic Roulette - It seems like a goofy alternative, based on 25 rather than 37/38. Nice try, but it's too similar to routlette, so why bother changing?


New Dice layout - They propose several layout changes, as well as some new bets/payouts, without affecting the basic game. I like their ideas, but some of the layout changes are bad.

While the new hop bet area LOOKS good, it looks like it can't accomodate more than one person making hop bets.

The change to hard way bets is also good, except, again, the position doesn't have enough room to allow everyone to bet.


deq g3 - Again, I have no idea what they are proposing.

Dave,
You're right....That's the thing about Alphabetic Roulette - using letters add absolutely nothing over numbers, so there's essentially no improvement or point to the game over standard Roulette. Why learn a new game only to play the same game??!! But I felt very bad for the Alphabetic Roulette people, as they weren't getting many inquires, and the other vendors and exhibitors said very disparaging things about it behind their backs.
(e.g.,"Can you Spell out R-E-T-A-R-D-E-D with it?" "Diabetic Coma Roulette?") Part of this was just cattyness and competitive jealousy, and part of it was the effect of the open bar. The gaming industry can be a very rude industry at times. God, we're pricks at times.

Other products were treated very well by all.

The Make a Wish product there was popular, and their game is called "Wish Card Poker": it's essentially Baccarat, but where the hands (player/Banker) are of Three card Poker with the use of ONE community card to be used by both sides. Player and Banker are called Master and Maker, and there's a very good bad beat bet with it also. This game I can see getting some installs.

EZ Pai Gow poker IS the Pai Gow version using the Queen-high push mechanism to replace the commission, and where all (100%) of the transactions are commission-free, every one. ALL wins are full pay/no commission. Also, all standard bonus bets are offered.
See http://www.deq.com/section/products/pdf/EZ_PAI_GOW.pdf

Hi-Low Pai Gow Poker is an interesting concept, but wasn't that much fun to play, IMHO. By betting seperately on the two-card side and five card side, you are stuck by being forced to use their house way if the bets are unequal. In addition, if you get a split decision, you lose on one side while the other side wins, so it's the same as the push anyway, - except that you STILL have to pay a commission on ALL THREE bets (high-side, low-side, and main bet). I don't see a a noticeable improvement of options here over the base game of Pai Gow Poker, just a "re-translation" of the same game, a la Alphabetic Roulette.

Bet Your Luck. I liked it! This is an Elegant, fun and easy table game to play, that is essentially a “Tiny-Roulette” game that uses cards drawn from a shoe for its final countdown number result of 1 to 8, with 0 and 9 being an “impasse,” which you can also bet to win at 16:1. I was impressed by the game as a “faster tiny-Roulette alternative” that uses cards drawn from a shoe, instead of a wheel and ball. For players, instead of betting 1-36 and 0 and 00 with all sorts of side bets, you just bet on numbers 1 through 8, or on an “Impasse” occurring (kind of like betting on 0 or 00.) You can also bet on a two-number column-split or on a “full four-number square,” but not a row-split of two numbers. Now, a round or hand of the game is started by one player picking a “seed value” card of 40 to 100, and then cards are quickly drawn out from a shoe to subtract down into the 0 to 9 range, where the bets are resolved. Your number hits – you win. As for the house edge, it’s a combined 7.0%, which is high, although certain numbers have Very low house edges, like the “4” at 1.6%, and the “7”, at 2.3%, with the number “6” having the largest house edge of 13%. This is all due to the “modulus” of card mathematics. Ideally, the game could later be modified or adjusted to produce a 2.5% to 4.0% house edge, but is a fine-playing table game as it is in its play nature. An interesting version of this game would be to use a dedicated wheel and ball, with a wheel with spots numbered 1..8 plus impasse, with a rapid-ball-drop mechanism for a faster game. Very Nice little game, a "Roulette light," on a regular sized (Blackjack) sized table. I can also see this game getting some installs.

Other games I won't mention, in the admittedly biased sense of "Naaaa....that ain't happening." To see three worthy games out of ten is good; About one new game a year gets into casinos in a viable way.

I was given a "game voting card" by Raving, not realizing that I am an Exhibitor-Vendor, and not an attendee/customer. It would be unethical of me to vote, so I won't, in respect of the effects of Karma. But if I did vote, I'd vote:
1. EZ Pai Gow (but of course.....!)
2. Bet your Luck (A sweet little game)
3. Wish-Card Poker.

EZ Pai Gow poker has 14 installs at this point and growing, and I expect that "Bet your luck" and "Wish-card Poker" to get some installs also.

In terms of New Game installs, it is a VERY risky proposition for a casino to field trial new games.
In this regard, special Accolades MUST be given to the Barona Casino of the San Diego area, for being a true Champion of new game designers, and to the Stations Casino Group, for the same in the Las Vegas area.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Make a Wish - I didn't quite get what they are trying to do.

Can't say for sure until I see the website, but I'll make a wild guess: they're trying to separate gamblers from their money. I'm rather surprised the inventor of a side bet didn't guess that ;) (now pardon me while I seek cover).

Quote: FinsRule

But what if the rabbit were in an art gallery, and you had to shoot either the Rembrandt or the rabbit....?

lol awesome response

dbpost.

ALL gambling games try to do that. Some just do it more deftly than others. Wish-card poker was one of the best games there.

Quote: Paigowdan

EZ Pai Gow poker has 14 installs at this point and growing, and I expect that "Bet your luck" and "Wish-card Poker" to get some installs also.

Does that mean your game is at 14 casinos, or there are 12 tables in a number of casinos? either way, congratulations on the success so far.

Any notion when we'll see your game in Vegas?

I always thought a blackjack game that eliminated some pushes by having the higher poker hand (only when both the player and dealer had two cards) would be interesting. So a 20 that was KK would beat a 20 that was Q10 or JJ would beat KQ. It shouldn't mess with the HA and I think it would make getting a 20 more exciting.

DJ, looks like Alphabet Roulette has your side bet idea.

I also like the hardways (even if they aren't soft ways) in front of their number. It seems like a lot of time is wasted when one of them hits, so maybe having them in front of the dealer (since he has to pay them anyway) would make it easier.

Nareed,
Thanks! The Barona has four EZ Pai Gow tables, Pala has two, Ameristar properties each have one, and yes, it is in the Las Vegas area at the Fiesta Henderson on Lake Mead Parkway. We also picked up a few more orders...

Quote: Paigowdan

Nareed,
Thanks! The Barona has four EZ Pai Gow tables, Pala has two, Ameristar properties each have one, and yes, it is in the Las Vegas area at the Fiesta Henderson on Lake Mead Parkway. We also picked up a few more orders...

I hope they're doing well.

I'll keep an eye out for it next trip. it would be worth the cab ride to Henderson, too.

Quote: Paigowdan

Nareed,
Thanks! The Barona has four EZ Pai Gow tables, Pala has two, Ameristar properties each have one, and yes, it is in the Las Vegas area at the Fiesta Henderson on Lake Mead Parkway. We also picked up a few more orders...

Dan -

Any ideas if the East Coast has them yet? I was up in AC last weekend, and only saw EZ Baccarat at Trump Marina.

-B

Quote: Wizard

Jailhouse Poker: You can make an Arrest bet and Bail bet. Instead of a Flop there is a Flip. Perhaps not the best name for a game I've ever seen.

But every other title containing "poker" was taken! Of the fourteen games listed six contain either "poker" or the name of a poker game while two marry a game with poker. Might be time to expand no-limit to the "Cadillac of all games!"

Quote: Caffiend

But every other title containing "poker" was taken! Of the fourteen games listed six contain either "poker" or the name of a poker game while two marry a game with poker. Might be time to expand no-limit to the "Cadillac of all games!"

It is true that there are tons of other poker games already, so it is hard finding a good name that is available. Still, a game name should use words that have a positive association to players. Preferably words gamblers can relate to, like lucky or fortune. There is nothing pleasant that comes to my mind when I think of a jailhouse.

Quote: Wizard

There is nothing pleasant that comes to my mind when I think of a jailhouse.

Only thing I can think of is Elvis' "Jailhouse Rock."

You could ask Peter David. In two of his shows, "Seinfeld" and "It's Like, You Know", there are episodes with characters who are wistful about prison.

Wow but I have gone way off topic!

Quote: Wizard

It is true that there are tons of other poker games already, so it is hard finding a good name that is available. Still, a game name should use words that have a positive association to players. Preferably words gamblers can relate to, like lucky or fortune. There is nothing pleasant that comes to my mind when I think of a jailhouse.

I agree, and I hate "Die Rich" even more. It is funny though, that "Craps" has endured, and don't get me started on trying to teach the immature about the Come Bet and Coming Out.

Quote: Paigowdan

(e.g.,"Can you Spell out R-E-T-A-R-D-E-D with it?")

Oh, that's just WRONG! But I love it!

Quote: cclub79

DJ, looks like Alphabet Roulette has your side bet idea.

Yeah, I noticed that too. But, depending on how they worded their patent, it might not be a problem.

Quote: cclub79

I agree, and I hate "Die Rich" even more. It is funny though, that "Craps" has endured, and don't get me started on trying to teach the immature about the Come Bet and Coming Out.

Not to mention the hard 4, 6, 8, and 10.

Toastcmu -
The Trump Marina is interested in EZ Pai Gow. They may pick it up in the next month or two. They've been a good champion of DEQ products.

Quote: Wizard

A lot of...creative...games at the show. Here is quick run down of some of them:

Bet Your Luck: This is the first fan tan variant I've ever seen. The game starts with a random number, like 85. Then they draw cards at random and deduct them from the total until the next card is too big to subtract without resulting in a negative number. Players bet on what the remainder will be at this point. You have to at least give it points for trying something different.

Jailhouse Poker: You can make an Arrest bet and Bail bet. Instead of a Flop there is a Flip. Perhaps not the best name for a game I've ever seen.

Deuces Wild: Kind of like Let it Ride, but with deuces and a joker wild. From Galaxy Gaming, so you'll likely see this out there soon.

Hi-Low Pai Gow Poker: This is PaiGowDan's competitor. In this one you can bet on your high and low hand individually, but must play by the house way if you do.

Seven Card Poker: This is a side bet for Texas Hold 'Em, based on the final seven cards.

Rabbit Hunter: The logo for this game is a white rabbit in the cross hairs of a hunter's scope. The one and only time I went hunting I shot a rabbit, and have felt badly about it ever since. Bad memories came flooding back to me. Now I'm depressed.

Roll 'em Hold 'em: Seems like a decent game. Too many rectangles on the layout. Circles are much more pleasing to the eye.

Pair me Up: A blackjack variant where pairs beat 21 points.

Prosperity Bonus Wager: Side bet for another game, I'm not sure which.

Rock and Roll 21: A three-card blackjack game. I won't bother to explain the rules.

Die Rich: I thought this game died at the Luxor, but it is still alive and kicking. I think the rules have been modified since its Vegas debut at the Luxor. Much like Jailhouse Poker, I'm not crazy about the name. I left the show thinking about jail, dieing, and dead rabbits.

High Card Poker: I haven't read the literature yet.

Super Bacc: Baccarat variant that allows players to raise.

Wish Card Poker: Cross between baccarat and poker.

Wizard,

How many peeps would you say were in attendance? I was there the first year and there wasn't too many. No Shuffle Master products, just small vendors. A few good games though.

I had the opportunity to try EZ Pai Gow when I was visiting my family in Omaha.

I will be the first to admit that the only way I will play Pai gow is if they offer at least the Fortune Bonus. Considering my luck, I also like having the Pai Gow Insurance bet too... I know they offer a high house edge, but that's the price of entertainment for me.

I wasn't a huge fan of the bonus options on EZ Pai Gow. In my opinion, 1) there were too many. 2) I don't care for the pay structure on the high bonus hand. I prefer Fortune, and in CB, they offer the 8000-2000-1000 bet.

I never saw the dealer have a Q-high pai gow during my time, so I didn't ever experience a push. However, given the popularity of the game at the Ameristar properties, I would not be suprised if the game does well.

I do wish you the best after the conference.

Quote: Kelmo

Wizard,

How many peeps would you say were in attendance? I was there the first year and there wasn't too many. No Shuffle Master products, just small vendors. A few good games though.

Peeps? Aren't those the awful marshmallow candy bunnies and ducks that they sell around Easter? Fortunately, I didn't see any.

I'm not a good one to ask general questions about the conference. I was kindly invited to be the reception guest of the guys with Hi-Low Pai Gow Poker. That was the extent of my participation. I've never been to previous years at all. At the reception I noticed some people with casino name cards, but it seemed to be mostly game inventors talking to each other.

Quote: cclub79

I also like the hardways (even if they aren't soft ways) in front of their number. It seems like a lot of time is wasted when one of them hits, so maybe having them in front of the dealer (since he has to pay them anyway) would make it easier.

I hope you noticed the 14.29% HA on these bets. Making these hardway place bets instead of the standard hardways would be akin to betting the Big 6/8 instead of making place bets.

Now, the buy option could be a better bet. The straight 5% vig yields a HA of 4.76% (7 bets at 1.05 = 7.35; 6 lose, 1 win returns 7; .35/7.35 = 4.76%) Of course you have to get up to $20 bet or your vig is higher than 5%. There's some bet amount < $20 where the $1 vig will still get you a better bet than the standard hardways, but I'm too lazy to figure that out right now. If you can make a $25 buy bet for $1 vig, then the HA drops to 3.85%. (7 bets at $26 = $182; 6 lose, 1 win returns $175; 7/182 = 3.85%) I doubt it would happen, but if you paid the vig only on wins the HA would be 0.57% (7 bets at $25 = 175; 6 lose, 1 win returns 174; 1/175 = 0.57%)

Quote: Tiltpoul

I had the opportunity to try EZ Pai Gow when I was visiting my family in Omaha.

I will be the first to admit that the only way I will play Pai gow is if they offer at least the Fortune Bonus. Considering my luck, I also like having the Pai Gow Insurance bet too... I know they offer a high house edge, but that's the price of entertainment for me.

I wasn't a huge fan of the bonus options on EZ Pai Gow. In my opinion, 1) there were too many. 2) I don't care for the pay structure on the high bonus hand. I prefer Fortune, and in CB, they offer the 8000-2000-1000 bet.

I never saw the dealer have a Q-high pai gow during my time, so I didn't ever experience a push. However, given the popularity of the game at the Ameristar properties, I would not be suprised if the game does well.

I do wish you the best after the conference.

Tilt - thanks for the input! About EZ pai Gow...
1. We offer up to FIVE side bets, and so we allow the CUSTOMER to configure the layout as they see fit, and they can get carried away. Sometimes they choose too many! This is not a DEQ Vendor configuration issue, this is a local house configuring the game. I agree with you, and I believe that Less is often More, but we HAVE to allow our customers the option to configure the layouts as they see fit. We don't tell them - they tell us!

2. On the Bonus bet, I wanted NO payout higher than 2000:1, and I DID INDEED design it like that - but we offer MORE ways to hit those payouts. I did this because:

a) I Didn't want the "layout" doing the job of a "progressive screen" jackpot option, so I drew a line. If I were to incorporate progressive-level payouts on the layout itself, then why would a customer buy my Distributor's G3 progressive Jackpot table option? I feel that huge jackpots SHOULD be borne by the jackpot pool itself, and NOT by the Local Casino pit offering the game.

b) MURPHY'S LAW: I, as the inventor, ALSO did NOT want a > 2000:1 on the game, so I took it off because of "Murphy's Law." Let me explain: Firstly, we as players, never see them hit for us ourselves. If they DO hit - then it's always someone else ANYWAY! But the CASINO HOUSE has to pay it - and as our customer after trying the product! The point I'm making here is that we do NOT play Pai Gow to get a 7-card straight flush, we play Pai Gow, well....to play Pai Gow and hopefully make $200-$1,000 on a good night. But shoot, NOT $35,000!

I have ALWAYS felt that table games should NOT be paying for second homes, retirement funds, Lear Jets, and the like. A vacation or a month's worth of show tickets, I can see. A second home on the French Riviera, I cannot.

c) If my game HAD given up a huge jackpot during its trial period, then THAT could have killed (JINXED) the game, giving it a "Stench" or "Funk" as a "dumping game," thereby killing off my game. I wasn't going to let that happen with MY pen writing the bonus tables! I CAN see a new game surviving a $4,000 payout. Fine. But I Cannot see a brand new game ever surviving a $25,000 to $50,000 payout in its first month ot two that a local casino house has to pay out.

3. The Queen high house mechanism EXPLAINED: I add ONE more push to the game to complete get rid of the commission. If the Dealer's gets a Queen-high, the flat bet pushes, and the bonus bets get process. That's it.

The MATH:
* A Dealer's Queen high occurs once in every 58 rounds on average. That's 1.7% of the time, for a "nominal" 1.7% added house edge - assuming that the dealer would always lose that hand - which is a VERY reasonable assumption for that hand!

* But, the Q-high hand occasionally ties (like whenever a player has a flush with a 4-2 top), so it's a 1.6% added house edge, not 1.7%. By contrast in the commission-based game, players win 30% of the time to pay a 5%, and that's 1.5% (30% x 5% = 1.5%). The difference is 0.001, or 0.1% - NOT MUCH at just a TENTH of a percent.

* Yet the table hold is about 2% higher than the commission-based game. Why? Because with no commission, the dealers are PUMPING OUT FAR MORE HANDS, because dealers arent't farting around making change or making dealer errors on casino time. Casinos just LOVE this...

* the Dealers Queen-high mechanism, from the players point of view, is variable: it can occur four times or so in a player's two-hour session, or it occurs not-at-all in a six hour session. But that's from the point of view of a player. Casinos look at their books in terms of Monthly performance, Quarterly performance, and yearly performance, where the Queen-high push mechanism is a very strong and linear preformer, especially in light of the faster game pace.

* Players like the game because it seems inherently more fair, and as a gaming experience: Bet $100, and win $100, NOT $95. And so it is. Player's initially looked at the game, and said, "Aha! There's GOTTA be a gimmick to IT! I know you're selling off our first-born children JUST TO REMOVE THE COMMISSION- AREN'T YA!" We said, "no. bet an amount and win the amount straight up, with no gimmicks - and that's the gimmick. LEARN to trust it, we're here to play!"
I often point out that the real gimmick in Pai Gow Poker is shorting or stiffing every player 5% on EVERY win they scratch out - only to NOT notice THAT's the real gimmick. "You win??!! Good...I'll pay you LESS than what you've actually bet...you like THAT??!!"

Quote: seattledice

I hope you noticed the 14.29% HA on these bets. Making these hardway place bets instead of the standard hardways would be akin to betting the Big 6/8 instead of making place bets.

Now, the buy option could be a better bet. The straight 5% vig yields a HA of 4.76% (7 bets at 1.05 = 7.35; 6 lose, 1 win returns 7; .35/7.35 = 4.76%) Of course you have to get up to $20 bet or your vig is higher than 5%. There's some bet amount < $20 where the $1 vig will still get you a better bet than the standard hardways, but I'm too lazy to figure that out right now. If you can make a $25 buy bet for $1 vig, then the HA drops to 3.85%. (7 bets at $26 = $182; 6 lose, 1 win returns $175; 7/182 = 3.85%) I doubt it would happen, but if you paid the vig only on wins the HA would be 0.57% (7 bets at $25 = 175; 6 lose, 1 win returns 174; 1/175 = 0.57%)

I was speaking of the location of the bet, not that I would play it. If they moved the hard ways (again, even if they aren't soft ways) in front of the dealer, I think the pays would be quicker.

Quote: Wizard

A lot of...creative...games at the show. Here is quick run down of some of them:


Rock and Roll 21: A three-card blackjack game. I won't bother to explain the rules.

This one sounds odd. Possibly your three cards add up to as close to 21. I wonder if the dealer also gets three. I see a lot of bust outs in this.

Dan -

I'll keep an eye out for it next time I'm up there - I hope that the Marina survives long enough for you to get picked up there. They did convert two BJ tables in to the .25 ante $1 blackjack tables which were busy, but most of the casino was pretty lean, even on a Friday night.

-B

Quote: Wizard

Rabbit Hunter: The logo for this game is a white rabbit in the cross hairs of a hunter's scope. The one and only time I went hunting I shot a rabbit, and have felt badly about it ever since. Bad memories came flooding back to me. Now I'm depressed.

While I can certainly understand your feelings due to your depressing memories, I feel compelled to point out that "Rabbit Hunting" is an already established term in poker.

In games with community cards such as Hold Em and Omaha, if there is a bet with no callers before the river, sometimes players will ask to see what the remaining cards would have been. So you're hunting for your card, to see if you would have won the pot. I don't know what the rabbit reference means.

This practice is never allowed in casino tournaments, and is generally not allowed in cash games at casinos except at high stakes tables - and then only if there is no objection. This rule is usually in place at home games and poker leagues, but tends to get broken a lot. Another home game and league rule that takes a beating is "No looking thru the muck."

Rabbit Hunting is NOT to be confused with "Running it Twice", which is also not allowed in tournaments, and generally allowed with big pots at stake in a cash game.

If you see rabbit hunting on TV, the dealer will show the un-played card, but place it at an angle so everyone, including surveilance, knows they are not in play. Sometimes on TV tournaments, the dealer will rabbit hunt by showing it to the hole card camera, but nobody sees it until it's broadcast.

---

I think "Rabbit Hunter" is a terrible name for a new game.

Only poker players will know the term. Amoung those, how many will play it?

Of those that don't know the term, how inviting is the name, or the logo of a rabbit in the cross hairs?

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I feel compelled to point out that "Rabbit Hunting" is an already established term in poker.

Thanks, I did not know that.

I missed the rabbit hunting, which would have been one more game. The joke was DOA anyway though.

What I like to imagine is that the poor shmuck who closed the poker room at Mohegan Sun has to attend conferences like this and is slowly being driven off the deep end by the endless onslaught of poker themes. I just find it amusing that the least profitable game is getting its revenge, so to speak.

I'm also bemused by what I'm sure will be successful games designed for people who want to play poker without playing poker. I do hope someone comes up with "Casino GUTS" or "Casino Indian Poker" though.

Quote: Caffiend

What I like to imagine is that the poor shmuck who closed the poker room at Mohegan Sun ....

Not to derail this thread, but before someone else does, and asks... Yes. Years ago Mohegan Sun had a poker room, that was eventually closed. I've never been there, but the story is that it was very badly managed, and the players went 9 miles down the road to Foxwoods.

About 2 years ago, with their expansion, they opened a new poker room, which is doing quite well. It's a beautiful room, while the Foxwoods room decor leaves a lot to be desired.

To resume the thread.....
the LAST day of the Table games conference was today.....

The winners were announced, and NOT what I expected...

1. GOLD: Galaxy Gaming's Triple Attack Blackjack
2. Silver Hi-Low Pai Gow (with commission)
3. Three Card-21

Huh?
Actually, Triple attack Blackjack is good, as is Three-card-21. Hi-Low I am surprised at, but the Inventor, Cory Lucier, gave a great and confident presentation, and really made the rounds and worked the room. This is a must for any sort of sales or promotion.

Triple Attack Blackjack's win assures that the Barona Casino in San Diego will try the game. I sat next to Robert Saucier of Galaxy during the presentation, and congradualted him on his product's first place finish.

Am I disappointed I didn't place? Yes, somewhat, but then I was happy that we got a lot of sales during the conference. It was suggested to me that it was hard for me to win, because EZ Baccarat (the sister product) recently won the Gold (2008) with essentially the same push type mechanism, as distributoed by the same company.

The main thing is that many good games were seen - which is the point of the conference.

Quote: Caffiend

I do hope someone comes up with "Casino GUTS" or "Casino Indian Poker" though.

I'd love to see Indian Poker too. Meanwhile, have fun with this video.

Quote: Paigowdan

1. GOLD: Galaxy Gaming's Triple Attack Blackjack

I like that game too, which I played at Harrah's. I'm working on an analysis of it, but will probably fall back on quoting from Galaxy's own report by the brilliant Cindy Liu.

I am bit perplexed… I too was at the Raving Table Games gig. I saw all the new games and liked most of them. Somewhere just bad, like Alpha Roulette Or one called Die Rich which to me was to over the top and poorly named but not a bad concept I guess. Others like Wish Card Poker where nice games but the teal color layout looked bland. And the word poker in the name made me want to roll my eyes when I 1st saw it and thought “oh no, not another poker variation” But once I played it, I liked it. And thought this might work in some places being a poker game that is dealt like bacc. Other games where great! Triple Threat is a very sold game. As well as Three Card Black Jack. And EZ Pai Gow has vastly improved the game of Pai Gow by removing the commission.

The one that I am perplexed about is Hi Low Pai Gow? Second Place? Really?

When I 1st sat down at the game rather then began to tell me how great his game was and why I should like it. He instead starting telling me how bad the other pai gow games out there where especially the no commission ones. A big red flag to me cause if you game is good, then it will sell itself without having to mention another game. He finely got to the part about his game. All was going good as I really liked the option to bet on The High (5 card side) The Low (two card sides) or Both (The main pai gow bet) or any combination. I placed three green chips on all three bets and I won the hand. The high, the low, and the both bet. That was great! I won 75$ then he tells me… “You have to pay commission on all three wins” so I handed him a red chip and he took out the 5% commission of my total wins. As much as I hate the commission I thought “Oh well I still won 75$ minus the commission.” I was on my way to very much liking the game. That is until I put three black chips across all three bets. He dealt the cards and I won only the Low bet. The dealer had won the high bet. So he took the losing 100$ chip, slid it over to my low hand bet, and then tap the table to show I had pushed on the both bet. Then is said to me “you owe me five dollars.” I said “Huh? What for?” He replied”you won the low bet; you have to pay commission on the bets you win”. I said… “But I did not win I pushed?” He replied “yes on the both bet but not on the low bet you won that and you have to pay commission on all wins.” I said “oh...?” And threw him a red chip as a puzzled look came across my face.

Seeing this he tried to explain. “You have to pay 5% commissions on all winning bets. It is how the game generates the house edge. So I sit there for one more round (not playing) as others played. We listened to him talk about how much more monies the casino was going to make with this game over any other pai gow game. No wonder I thought?

Can any of you see why I left the game thinking, this game will never make it. There is no way I would ever spend a real penny playing this game.

The game inventor has come up with a way to charge you commission on all the pushes in the game of Pai Gow if you place two or more of the three bets. Which I think is 42 times per 100 hands on avg. Of course the casinos will make a boat load of monies with this game and players will lose boat loads of monies with this game thus never playing it again. This game is not commercially viable. How did it win second place? Did everyone just miss this?

You are not going to keep players playing this game when on every net push they have to pay the house a fig! Every time you win you lose 5% of your winnings (commission pai gow). Every time you push you lose 5% of YOUR MONEY!

What happens on a tie in Hi Low Pai Gow in the hi and low bets? With the 5% commission, I would hope a tie is a push. Once I have an answer to that question I can easily work out the math.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Not to derail this thread, but before someone else does, and asks... Yes. Years ago Mohegan Sun had a poker room, that was eventually closed. I've never been there, but the story is that it was very badly managed, and the players went 9 miles down the road to Foxwoods.

About 2 years ago, with their expansion, they opened a new poker room, which is doing quite well. It's a beautiful room, while the Foxwoods room decor leaves a lot to be desired.

To be fair, they announced they'd close it in early 2003, when poker was probably at its nadir in the US. Caesars AC did the same thing, closing their little poker room at the time. Who knew that months later ESPN would create a new generation of poker lovers? I remember playing in the early 2000s and I was usually the only player not over 50. Daily tournaments were so sparsely attended that they were often canceled.

/end threadderail

Quote: clubflush

You are not going to keep players playing this game when on every net push they have to pay the house a fig! Every time you win you lose 5% of your winnings (commission pai gow). Every time you push you lose 5% of YOUR MONEY!

Not to diminish the bad concept, but in the 'push' scenario you described, the 5% commission on that one bet is only 1.66% of the total bet.

Still, not good. Ideally, a push is supposed to be a 0% loss of the hand's bet. Over 10 hands a 1.66% loss becomes 16.66%, etc.

Indeed, the inventor of Hi-Low Pai Gow told me that one of the great advantages of the game for the casino is in its ability to "make extra money for the casino through extra commissions on the same hand." Apparently, he sold this idea very well, as the casino operators at the convention gave him a thumbs up on that one. Whether or not the PLAYERS are going to dig this idea is entirely another story.

In all fairness to him, the same inventor DID invent Fortune-Teller BJ that won last year, and that game has some real interesting options and features for the players.