Local UTH is broken and I want to know how to exploit
Quote: RSThere was no "grey area overlap" in this case and should not have even gone to court. The judge dismissed the charges as no reasonable jury could reach any other verdict. To say "this should have gone to court" is ridiculous. Did you read the following part?
There was enough grey area overlap for this to be argued out in court. I don't think this should have gone to court - but the fact of the matter is that it did go to court. Clearly.
Quote: RSSo, where is this "grey area overlap" or whatever?
None with me. Even if I were on the jury I'd side with the players on this one. But like I said, if it not black and white but instead a grey area - not to me but to one or more parties involved, it'll be argued out in court. And this is exactly what happened.
Quote: RSIt's not easy money, either. "Easy money" implies easy work.
Oh. So people AP because it is challenging and exciting. It isn't easy clocking in to a full forty hour a week job, or answering to a boss who's a knucklehead and may fire you if not towing some line, or when you may take your vacation, or how much vacation you'll even get. That's easier, eh?
Quote: IbeatyouracesAnyone who thinks this isn't work or is easy is sadly mistaken. It's also very very frustrating at times.
Hear, hear!
Quote: BozNice article Teliot!
I concur, fantastic Article!
2. Let me add, specifically to Eliot, that if I can see that the casino did not have a case here (I mean, their own dealer openly admits, "Okay, I was flashing the cards...") ...If I am radical, then Joe casino manager is Al Queda/Taliban/ISIS radical. Eliot, you would know, you train 'em on game protection....
I would say it is quite reasonable to expect players to play by the game rules. However, it is radical to expect players to adhere to some mysterious, unposted "house rules." Especially since each house apparently has sometimes vastly different 'rules.' (See Barona vs. El Cortez)Quote: PaigowdanAnd my "radical" view is that players should play clean by the house rules and game rules, and not just by "x is technically legal and y is technically illegal."
By that definition, anyone who tries to start his own business is making 'easy money.'Quote: PaigowdanOh. So people AP because it is challenging and exciting. I just assume it is easier than a day time job, where you have to clock in to work a full forty hours, or answer to a boss who's a real knucklehead, or be told how little vacation time you have and when to take it, that kind of easy.
Quote: JoemanI would say it is quite reasonable to expect players to play by the game rules. However, it is radical to expect players to adhere to some mysterious, unposted "house rules." Especially since each house apparently has sometimes vastly different 'rules.' (See Barona vs. El Cortez)
I know them both. But posting any placard or what have you is a non-point, as casino play is voluntary on both sides (you can walk away from a table just as easily being walked away from a talk [hopefully, in a polite fashion]), and you'd have to be fresh off the boat from mars to know that AP is casino endorsed or tolerated. Really. This is a variation of "WHERE IS IT WRITTEN IN THE HOLY SCROLLS THAT I CAN OR CANNOT....." You can't open game defense details to the general public, but I would have a "count/mark/pinch/whatever, say good night" sign in my joint.
Quote: JoemanBy that definition, anyone who tries to start his own business is making 'easy money.'
My wife is starting a business. Big retail space, Clark County regs, Surveyors and engineers...... She's sinking in gobs of dat game revenue money into it. TELL ME I'm not scared.....
Quote: Paigowdan2. Let me add, specifically to Eliot, that if I can see that the casino did not have a case here (I mean, their own dealer openly admits, "Okay, I was flashing the cards...") ...If I am radical, then Joe casino manager is Al Queda/Taliban/ISIS radical. Eliot, you would know, you train 'em on game protection....
Maybe they just weren't sure. But once they found out the truth, they should've dropped the case.
Quote: IbeatyouracesMaybe they just weren't sure. But once they found out the truth, they should've dropped the case.
Yeah. And retrain or fire dealers, and be done with it.
This must have cost them way more than 30 hands of Blackjack. With this, now the onus also shifts to the casino houses to get their game protection in order (you know who to hire, he's always a much better value than litigation! )
Exactly!Quote: PaigowdanYeah. And retrain or fire dealers, and be done with it ... With this, now the onus also shifts to the casino houses to get their game protection in order.
Quote: teliotExactly!
Next question: who should they call for this (and it ain't Glen Lerner...) ;)
Quote: PaigowdanYeah. And retrain or fire dealers, and be done with it.
This must have cost them way more than 30 hands of Blackjack. With this, now the onus also shifts to the casino houses to get their game protection in order (you know who to hire, he's always a much better value than litigation! )
I've said many times, if I owned the place, I'll never ever blame the players or kick them out. I wouldn't fault them as long as it ISN'T collusion.
Not only that, I could use them to plug other holes if I see them on a game.
For baccarat, Willy Allison. For cheating & Blackjack, Bill Zender. For lots of other stuff, lots of other guys.Quote: PaigowdanNext question: who should they call for this (and it ain't Glen Lerner...) ;)
Quote: IbeatyouracesI've said many times, if I owned the place, I'll never ever blame the players or kick them out. I wouldn't fault them as long as it ISN'T collusion.
Not only that, I could use them to plug other holes if I see them on a game.
Nah.....the holes really have to be plugged at the design level by the designer: such things as bringing out cards before their game-play need, only to be edge-sorted and hole-carded, or using a shoe when an I-deal machine to deliver packets would be faster and work on a single-deck version, etc., the game designer is also at fault. GLI and most independent mathematicians always recommend a key card analysis on shoe games, some go so far as to offer or recommend collusion reports.
Quote: PaigowdanNah.....the holes really have to be plugged at the design level by the designer: such things as bringing out cards before their game-play need, only to be edge-sorted and hole-carded, or using a shoe when an I-deal machine to deliver packets would be faster and work on a single-deck version, etc., the game designer is also at fault. GLI and most independent mathematicians always recommend a key card analysis on shoe games, some go so far as to offer or recommend collusion reports.
That too, but trust me, very very few places in the country are trained well.
My point was that if I see these same people on something, I'll know something is up.
Quote: PaigowdanMy wife is starting a business. Big retail space, Clark County regs, Surveyors and engineers...... She's sinking in gobs of dat game revenue money into it. TELL ME I'm not scared.....
Based on your previous 'definition' of easy (money/work), it sounds like your wife is also in the easy money/work business by starting up a business. She doesn't have to clock in, she isn't told how few vacation days she gets, she doesn't have to answer to her boss, etc.
Quote: PaigowdanOh. So people AP because it is challenging and exciting. It isn't easy clocking in to a full forty hour a week job, or answering to a boss who's a knucklehead and may fire you if not towing some line, or when you may take your vacation, or how much vacation you'll even get. That's easier, eh?
If anything, you make the case for AP'ing being more difficult than regular jobs, if anything.
She married a casino table game inventor. And you are the one who is scared... LOL
Quote: RSBased on your previous 'definition' of easy (money/work), it sounds like your wife is also in the easy money/work business by starting up a business. She doesn't have to clock in, she isn't told how few vacation days she gets, she doesn't have to answer to her boss, etc.
Yes. Long mandatory hours as manager, potential for employee theft, staying current with countless retail outlet regs and licensing, shipments and storage needs, credit card processing, Human Resource management - all the stuff an AP player has to do as part of his work, eh? But it would still easier so as long as your signature is on both sides of the paycheck.
Quote: muleyvoice"My wife is starting a business. Big retail space, Clark County regs, Surveyors and engineers...... She's sinking in gobs of dat game revenue money into it. TELL ME I'm not scared....."
She married a casino table game inventor. And you are the one who is scared... LOL
True, actually.....Trust me when I tell you that the risks of a start up are scary.
Quote: PaigowdanYes. Long mandatory hours as manager, potential for employee theft, staying current with countless retail outlet regs and licensing, shipments and storage needs, credit card processing, Human Resource management - all the stuff an AP player has to do as part of his work, eh? But it would still easier so as long as your signature is on both sides of the paycheck.
Both obviously have their downsides. There are a bunch of stuff your wife has to do that an AP doesn't, as well as lots of stuff an AP does that your wife wouldn't.
