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scottndindy
scottndindy
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August 5th, 2010 at 3:15:55 PM permalink
Last time I was in vegas I was playing with some pretty experienced players and they were speaking to the dealer in chinese and he was rearranging the stacks of tiles after shuffling. After they are in the stacks they would say something and the dealer would move 4 from one side to the other or move two to one side and a couple from the middle. It seemed like there was a number of different shuffles. Does this sound like something people have seen before. This is done before the dice are rolled but just changes the game up a little bit.
Wizard
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Wizard
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August 5th, 2010 at 3:29:34 PM permalink
That was probably just the usual Chinese superstition. There are lots of ways the tiles can be "cut," but I think some casinos are clamping down on moving them around too much.

It has occurred to me before that if the player knew the location of the gee joon and/or teen tiles he could increase his probability of getting them by cutting them in such a way as to get them on a roll of 10 or 11 (the most likely). However, putting the legal and moral issues aside, I doubt it would be enough to overcome the house edge.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
miplet
miplet
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August 5th, 2010 at 3:49:23 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

That was probably just the usual Chinese superstition. There are lots of ways the tiles can be "cut," but I think some casinos are clamping down on moving them around too much.

It has occurred to me before that if the player knew the location of the gee joon and/or teen tiles he could increase his probability of getting them by cutting them in such a way as to get them on a roll of 10 or 11 (the most likely). However, putting the legal and moral issues aside, I doubt it would be enough to overcome the house edge.


I've never played tiles, but in the poker varient each spot has a 31/216 of getting the first cards exept 7/14 spot its 30/216 .
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Wizard
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Wizard
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August 5th, 2010 at 4:19:30 PM permalink
Quote: miplet

I've never played tiles, but in the poker varient each spot has a 31/216 of getting the first cards exept 7/14 spot its 30/216 .



Shoot, I forgot how each position can have multiple totals. What would I do with you Miplet?
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
appistappis
appistappis
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August 5th, 2010 at 7:55:11 PM permalink
where I deal there is no cutting allowed....I have seen cutting allowed if a player was banking.....never heard of anyone cutting a house banked hand....also, it is strictly forbidden for the dealer to converse in any language other than english.
NicksGamingStuff
NicksGamingStuff
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August 5th, 2010 at 8:21:52 PM permalink
When I was playing at the Peppermill in Reno the other player was banking as often as he could (a smart move) he had been making bets of roughly $500-$1000 a hand the whole time I played (about 30 min) I had never seen so many black and purple chips in my life next to me. He was asking for some special kind of cut in Chinese to the dealer who switched some stuff around. I ended up winning and the dealer had to make change for him to give me two red chips :) When they switched dealers he got really upset because the dealer didn't speak Chinese and messed up the order of passing out the tiles, I told her I don't really care which pile I get but he threw a big fit! His superstitions seemed to pay off because when he bet big he seemed to always win and when he scaled back he lost.
Aussie
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August 6th, 2010 at 12:11:49 AM permalink
Quote: scottndindy

Last time I was in vegas I was playing with some pretty experienced players and they were speaking to the dealer in chinese and he was rearranging the stacks of tiles after shuffling. After they are in the stacks they would say something and the dealer would move 4 from one side to the other or move two to one side and a couple from the middle. It seemed like there was a number of different shuffles. Does this sound like something people have seen before. This is done before the dice are rolled but just changes the game up a little bit.





Don't know how to spell it but it's called a "lar-jar". Just a way to further shuffle the tiles (after the usual shuffle and cut) if the players think they are having a bad run. Just supersicion. There are several different ways they can do it depending on what the player asks for. Get them to do a "grab and slide" for something interesting.

Where I play they no longer allow players to request it except in the members only high limit room.
teddys
teddys
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August 6th, 2010 at 6:36:08 AM permalink
There are ten different shuffles for Pai Gow Tiles. The House Way is the basic shuffle, dealt from the left. You can also specify House Way Right. You can only specify the shuffle when you are banking.
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I learned all the shuffles the first time I went to Atlantic City. I walked through all the casinos on the Boardwalk, playing tiles in each one. Caesars Palace had the friendliest, most knowledgeable dealers and the nicest room. I got a heads up game with a very nice dealer who let me bank every other turn, betting $20 each time. I tried all the shuffles. The best one is called the dragon's tail, where they sort of create a "tail" out of the dominoes and deal the hands out from it. Whenever I play Pai Gow at other places now I always check to see if the dealer knows this shuffle.* (By the way, at the end of my session betting yellows at Caesars they let me talk to the host, who offered me the casino rate at their hotel, which I thought was nice. I recommend checking out their room if you are ever in A.C.)

*The most recent time I played at Horseshoe Hammond, not only did the dealer not know the shuffles, they don't even let you bank!

Edit: Thanks for the info, Scott.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
scottndindy
scottndindy
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August 6th, 2010 at 8:25:40 AM permalink
I found a bit of information on the state of Wisconsin's gambling rules. Sorry about the length.


(i) House way from the right: The dealer shall indicate the use of house way from the right by pushing forward the first stack of tiles on the dealer's right. The dealer shall deliver the stack pushed forward to the starting position. The remaining stacks of tiles shall be delivered from the dealer's right to left

(ii) House way from the left: The dealer shall indicate the use of house way from the left by pushing forward the first stack of tiles on the dealer's left. The dealer shall deliver the stack pushed forward to the starting position. The remaining stacks of tiles shall be delivered from the dealer's left to right.

(iii) Cup say (pick four) from the right: The dealer shall indicate the use of cup say from the right by pushing forward the first two stacks of tiles on the dealer's right. The dealer shall deliver the top two tiles from each of the two stacks pushed forward to the starting position. The four remaining tiles pushed forward shall be delivered to the next position. The remaining stacks of tiles shall be delivered from the dealer's right to left in the same manner as the first two stacks.

(iv) Cup say (pick four) from the left: The dealer shall indicate the use of cup say from the left by pushing forward the first two stacks of tiles on the dealer's left. The dealer shall deliver the top two tiles from each of the two stacks pushed forward to the starting position. The four remaining tiles pushed forward shall be delivered to the next position. The remaining stacks of tiles shall be delivered from the dealer's left to right in the same manner as the first two stacks.


(v) Jung quat (take the heart): The dealer shall indicate the use of jung quat by pushing forward the fourth stack of tiles from the dealer's right and the fourth stack of tiles from the dealer's left (the two center stacks of the eight). The dealer shall deliver the top two tiles from each of the two stacks pushed forward to the starting position. The four remaining tiles pushed forward shall be delivered to the next position. The remaining stacks shall be pushed together and the two new center stacks shall be pushed forward and delivered in the same manner as the first two stacks. This procedure shall be repeated until all eight stacks of tiles have been delivered.

(vi) Chee yee (chop the ears): The dealer shall indicate the use of chee yee by pushing forward the first stack of tiles on the dealer's right and the first stack of tiles on the dealer's left. To deliver the tiles, the dealer shall center the two stacks pushed forward in front of the remaining stacks. The dealer shall deliver the top two tiles from each of the two centered stacks to the starting position. The four remaining tiles from the two centered stacks shall be delivered to the next position. The dealer shall then center and deliver the first stack remaining on the dealer's left in the same manner. This procedure shall be repeated until all eight stacks of tiles have been delivered.

(vii) Pin say (slice four) from the right: The dealer shall indicate the use of pin say from the right by removing the top tile of the first stack of tiles on the dealer's right and place it diagonally across the top of the second, third and fourth stacks of tiles from the dealer's right. The dealer shall deliver the top tile from each of the first four stacks on the dealer's right to the starting position (the diagonal tile plus the three tiles it covers). The top tile from each of the first four stacks on the dealer's left shall be delivered to the next position. The top tile remaining on each of the first four stacks on the dealer's right shall be delivered to the third position and the top tile remaining on each of the first four stacks on the dealer's left shall be to the fourth position. This procedure shall be repeated until four tiles have been delivered to all eight positions.

(viii) Pin say (slice four) from the left: The dealer shall indicate the use of pin say from the left by removing the top tile of the first stack of tiles on the dealer's left and placing it diagonally across the top of the second, third and fourth stacks of tiles from the dealer's left. The dealer shall deliver the top tile from each of the first four stacks on the dealer's left to the starting position (the diagonal tiles plus the three tiles it covers). The top tile from each of the first four stacks on the dealer's right shall be delivered to the next position. The top tile remaining on each of the first four stacks on the dealer's left shall be delivered to the third position and the top tile remaining on each of the first four stacks on the dealer's right shall be delivered to the fourth position. This procedure shall be repeated until four tiles have been delivered to all eight positions.

(ix) Dragon head and phoenix tail from the right: The dealer shall indicate the use of dragon head and phoenix tail from the right by placing all four tiles in the first and second stacks from the dealer's right directly on top of the four tiles in third and fourth stacks from the dealer's right and then pushing forward the top two tiles in each of the eight tile stacks that are created (forming the "dragon head"). The dealer shall deliver the four tiles pushed forward to the starting position. The top tile from each of the four stacks of four tiles to the dealer's left (the "phoenix tail") shall be delivered to the next position. The dealer shall deliver the top two tiles from each of the two stacks on the dealer's right to the third position and the top tile from each of the four stacks on the dealer's left to the fourth position. This procedure shall be repeated until four tiles have been delivered to all eight positions.


x) Dragon head and phoenix tail from the left: The dealer shall indicate the use of dragon head and phoenix tail from the left by placing all four tiles in the first and second stacks from the dealer's left directly on top of the four tiles in the third and fourth stacks from the dealer's left and then pushing forward the top two tiles in each of the eight tile stacks that are created (forming the "dragon head"). The dealer shall deliver the four tiles pushed forward to the starting position. The top tile from each of the four stacks of four tiles to the dealer's right (the "phoenix tail") shall be delivered to the next position. The dealer shall deliver the top two tiles from each of the two stacks on the dealer's left to the third position and the top tile from each of the four stacks on the dealer's right to the fourth position. This procedure shall be repeated until four tiles have been delivered to all eight positions.
Aussie
Aussie
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August 6th, 2010 at 6:01:10 PM permalink
Those are the normal cuts and are usually determined at random. What was mentioned a the start of the thread is an extra shuffle done after all of that has been completed. As I said it is called a "lar jar".

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