Riva
Riva
Joined: Apr 3, 2013
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October 21st, 2014 at 10:58:02 AM permalink
As I shared previously, a local person recently donated a casino-quality roulette table and 32" wheel to our school to use at our frequent fundraising events. It is in virtually brand new condition. It is truly a thing of beauty. Below is a picture of the ensemble set up in my garage.

We already own two, 20' double roulette. Each can handle about 15-20 players. Still, we can't get everybody on a table during peak hours that wants to play. So, this table will pick up some of the overflow.

Our wager limit on the big tables is $3 minimum - $5 maximum. That means any outside bet must be for a minimum of $3 and no more than $5. All outside bets pay the same as a casino. On the inside, the player must bet at least $3 that can be any combination, i.e.: 3, $1 bets. Also, no single inside bet can be greater than $5. Most inside bets are of the $1 variety, however we have some aggressive $5 players. All inside bets are shaved by about 1/3. (I know, ouch!)

Since this new ensemble is so fancy, somebody suggested that we should make it our "high-limit" table. Specifically: set it up in an area somewhat away from the other 2 tables. As for limits, all wagers both inside and out would be for the same amount, $5 (perhaps even $10).

Requiring outside bets on the outside does not scare me very much because they pay either 1:1 or 2:1. However, requiring that any/all inside bets at $5 gives me the jitters because every winning bet gets a max payout, albeit shaved by 1/3. Still, I'm thinking that while we could drag in a ton more money, we are losing the variance of having some smaller ($1) wagers on the inside combined with a just a few maximum wagers. Under this scenario, any/all wagers on the inside are max wagers--with max payouts. Are my fears warranted? Thoughts.

BTW...while we have a maximum $500 limit on the amount a person can win per-day, savvy players know how to easily get around this by either going to the cage several times and/or offing any money in excess of $500 to a pal to cash in for them.

http://i61.tinypic.com/2hoiqfs.jpg

Thanks.
Boney526
Boney526
Joined: Sep 25, 2011
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October 21st, 2014 at 11:30:26 AM permalink
So you're paying something 24:1? I mean, I wouldn't be scared of any action there. Even if someone hits, the payout is what, like 120 dollars?

Why is the limit on the outside so low that it matches the inside limit? Just wondering. Is it because of the fact that you shave so much off the inside bets that the risk is comparable?
Riva
Riva
Joined: Apr 3, 2013
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October 21st, 2014 at 11:51:32 AM permalink
Quote: Boney526

So you're paying something 24:1? I mean, I wouldn't be scared of any action there. Even if someone hits, the payout is what, like 120 dollars?

Why is the limit on the outside so low that it matches the inside limit? Just wondering. Is it because of the fact that you shave so much off the inside bets that the risk is comparable?



The way I look at it, outside bets is simply trading dollars back and forth between the house and players. Black loses, red wins. Odd loses, even wins. It's almost a push at the end of the day.

We structure the bet limits for consistency and ease of understanding for the dealers. Most dealers are volunteers and when you set up multiple betting levels, quite frankly, it confuses them and mistakes are made.

About payouts..straight up pays 25:1. Split pays 12:1, etc.
bigfoot66
bigfoot66
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October 21st, 2014 at 11:54:55 AM permalink
I think that you are looking at this the wrong way. You would get into trouble if you had a lot of small wagers and then only a few big wagers that hit. By demanding $5 wagers here you are allowing the law of large numbers to work in your favor. I would make it $5 bets inside and, gasp, $10 bets outside. Only have $5 checks at the table. they cannot bet more than 1 chip on a number inside and they must bet stacks of 2 chips outside. Easy.
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Riva
Riva
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October 21st, 2014 at 12:33:50 PM permalink
Quote: bigfoot66

I think that you are looking at this the wrong way. You would get into trouble if you had a lot of small wagers and then only a few big wagers that hit. By demanding $5 wagers here you are allowing the law of large numbers to work in your favor. I would make it $5 bets inside and, gasp, $10 bets outside. Only have $5 checks at the table. they cannot bet more than 1 chip on a number inside and they must bet stacks of 2 chips outside. Easy.



Hmmmm? Interesting.

Again, my gut tells me this might add a new layer of complexity to the program for our dealers with $10 outside and $5 inside. As I said, to me, outside bets are just trading dollars irrespective of the amount of the wager. Most of our money made is on the inside.

Not to argue, I'm looking at this from a player's perspective as well. It's very easy to grasp a statement that says "all bets $5" or, "all bets $10". They know exactly what they are getting in to without having them ponder why we allow $10 on outside bets and just $5 on inside. Having to explain things a zillion times per-night takes time--and "time" is our most precious commodity.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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October 21st, 2014 at 12:53:40 PM permalink
For what it's worth, I deal for a poker league. Part of my job is to train new dealers. Some of them are no better than some of the newbie players. And some of the experienced players are no better than the newbie players either!


What I'm saying is, keep it simple.

Same betting limits inside and outside, AS WELL AS on all the tables. And contrary to what you're thinking, you're not such hot shit that you need a high limit table.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
sabre
sabre
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October 21st, 2014 at 1:30:35 PM permalink
I want to be in a position where I consider 5%+ house edge wagers to just be "trading dollars back and forth".

It's stunning how little you seem to know of the math of the game you're offering.
Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
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October 21st, 2014 at 1:45:19 PM permalink
Quote: bigfoot66

I think that you are looking at this the wrong way. You would get into trouble if you had a lot of small wagers and then only a few big wagers that hit. By demanding $5 wagers here you are allowing the law of large numbers to work in your favor. I would make it $5 bets inside and, gasp, $10 bets outside. Only have $5 checks at the table. they cannot bet more than 1 chip on a number inside and they must bet stacks of 2 chips outside. Easy.


So if I want to bet $5 inside, I have to bet all 5 on either a corner, line, or straight up? I would hate that. Most anyone who plays roulette for enjoyment and plays the inside (especially at a charity event) will more than likely be betting singles, up to the minimum/limit.

Personally, if you're willing to let someone bet $5 per number on the inside and pay out something like $120 for 1 hit, why wouldn't you let more action happen on the outside? Even red/black are >5% advantage for you... Red: (18/38)(1) + (20/38)(-1) = .47368 - .52632 = -.05264, or -5.26%.

I would think you'd make the maximum outside bet something like $25. This wouldn't even come close to a single number payout and you still carry quite an edge on it, thus you're making more money per spin.

EDIT:
Quote: sabre

I want to be in a position where I consider 5%+ house edge wagers to just be "trading dollars back and forth".

It's stunning how little you seem to know of the math of the game you're offering.


My thoughts exactly on the 5%+...
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
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October 21st, 2014 at 1:46:05 PM permalink
First duplicate ever... not sure how it happened as I just edited the first one? My mistake...
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
Riva
Riva
Joined: Apr 3, 2013
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October 21st, 2014 at 2:31:07 PM permalink
Quote: sabre



It's stunning how little you seem to know of the math of the game you're offering.



That comes from 12 years of Catholic schools. The nuns told us that math was not important, only religion and English were important! :)

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