Thread Rating:

100xOdds
100xOdds
  • Threads: 638
  • Posts: 4256
Joined: Feb 5, 2012
December 8th, 2013 at 6:18:23 PM permalink
Firebet in Craps has a 20% house edge. And I thought the Big Wheel (https://wizardofodds.com/games/big-six/) at 19% HE was bad!

So any sidebets that are worse?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
beachbumbabs
beachbumbabs
  • Threads: 100
  • Posts: 14260
Joined: May 21, 2013
December 8th, 2013 at 6:32:30 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

Firebet in Craps has a 20% house edge. And I thought the Big Wheel (https://wizardofodds.com/games/big-six/) at 19% HE was bad!

So any sidebets that are worse?



Yeah, there's (I think it's called) Lucky Ladies that's 24%; might have the name wrong, but it's a BJ sidebet that stays just under the Nevada restriction of 25% HE.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
ontariodealer
ontariodealer
  • Threads: 7
  • Posts: 999
Joined: Aug 5, 2013
December 8th, 2013 at 6:49:25 PM permalink
the dollar bonus bet on let it ride is 24 % at our casino.......ranges from 13 to 35% depending which pay table a place uses.
get second you pig
Mission146
Mission146
  • Threads: 142
  • Posts: 16832
Joined: May 15, 2012
December 8th, 2013 at 6:52:26 PM permalink
The Golden Dice Challenge:

https://wizardofodds.com/games/craps/appendix/5/

At the MGM Grand in Detroit is a sidebet similar to Fire Bet, though no specific points are required just based on total PL wins before seven-out, the HE on $1 bet is 27.1883%. The Max win may be $5,000, and if so, the HE on a $100 bet would be 49.22%.

Sharp Shooter (Same Source) is based on Points made with a HE of 21.87%.

Replay, at Boulder Station (Same Source, report based on 2010) is a bet made that involves making any specific point three or more times before Seven-Out. One could theoretically, "Win," more than once in a hand, but only the highest win is paid. The House Edge is 24.79%.

Twice as Nice is at an unknown casino in Biloxi, must throw any specific pair twice before a Seven, HE is 29.4%.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
  • Threads: 68
  • Posts: 11933
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
December 8th, 2013 at 6:56:03 PM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
tringlomane
tringlomane
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 6281
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
December 8th, 2013 at 7:19:21 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Overall, probably the dollar jackpot progressives at their beginning seeds, i.e. TCP ($1000), Caribbean Stud ($10,000), etc.



Even the average meter on Caribbean Stud is worse than 24% edge at least in most jurisdictions. It's 29% usually, making it barely legal in Missouri (max house edge on table game bets is 30% there; 20% for slots/VP).

http://www.mikohn.net/manuales/tables/Doc01.pdf
Mission146
Mission146
  • Threads: 142
  • Posts: 16832
Joined: May 15, 2012
December 8th, 2013 at 8:03:24 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces



Before the Fire Bets came along on craps, Motorcity ran a promotion a few times where if you threw all six points before a seven out, it paid $4000 to the shooter. No side bet required.



That's a cool promo, the EV of that on an initial Pass Line bet is:

0.000162434749269826 * 4000 = 0.64973899707

The Expected Loss on a $5 Pass Line bet is:

5 * .0141 = .0705

Therefore:

0.64973899707/.0141 = 46.081

It would seem that any initial Pass Line bet of $46.081, or less, would be an advantage play.

However, in order to succeed, at least six negative expectation bets must be made and likely more.

How do you guys look at this? Should the EV be based upon the initial Pass Line bet, (if a Point is made successfully prior to a Seven-Out, and the shooter does not bet more on the Pass Line on any subsequent attempt, then the shooter cannot lose money, overall, with exception to Crap numbers on the CO) or should the EV be based on the total (average) number of Pass Line bets that will be made per attempt?
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
strictlyAP
strictlyAP
  • Threads: 116
  • Posts: 983
Joined: Jun 20, 2012
December 8th, 2013 at 9:03:08 PM permalink
Worst side bet is the in between in blackjack it makes you root for bad cards ie. first card is a 6 dealer is 7 I'm now routing for an 8 such a bad sweat
The bet will not be paid- not now not ever
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
  • Threads: 68
  • Posts: 11933
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
December 8th, 2013 at 9:09:39 PM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
teliot
teliot
  • Threads: 43
  • Posts: 2871
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
December 8th, 2013 at 9:42:03 PM permalink
The Three Faces side bet to Three Card Baccarat (a game in Macau):
Quote: W

The Three Faces bet pays 16 to 1 and wins if the dealer has three face cards. The probability of winning is 1.00% and the house edge is 83.08% (ouch!).


http://wizardofmacau.com/games/threecardbaccarat.html
Climate Casino: https://climatecasino.net/climate-casino/
OzzyOsbourne
OzzyOsbourne
  • Threads: 18
  • Posts: 184
Joined: Jul 10, 2012
December 8th, 2013 at 9:48:21 PM permalink
We would need a wizard to figure it out but for the 5 card bonus at Caesar's propertys I know the house edge is really high for a 5 dollar bet. You have a shot at a million bucks, but if you bet 25 on it i assume the house edge goes way up, and I see people do that all the time.
casino's money disappears the execs worry when the wizard is near He turns tears into joy Everyone's happy when the wizard walks by
chrisr
chrisr
  • Threads: 13
  • Posts: 141
Joined: Dec 9, 2013
December 10th, 2013 at 11:01:20 AM permalink
an interesting thing about the side bets is they are often equivalent wagers to their counter-part table minimum bets (i think by design)

in the short term they tend to have more skewness, i ran the exact numbers for let it ride in another post.

the $1 "sucker bet" has a u=-.22 sd=29.0
the $5 main bet has u=-.18 sd=27.8

or for 900 hands..

the $1 "sucker bet" has a u=-198 sd=870
the $5 main bet has u=-162 sd=834

--

to answer the question though, doing a side bet where the payout could exceed the maximum table payout would be terrible.
1BB
1BB
  • Threads: 18
  • Posts: 5339
Joined: Oct 10, 2011
December 10th, 2013 at 11:14:59 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Yeah, there's (I think it's called) Lucky Ladies that's 24%; might have the name wrong, but it's a BJ sidebet that stays just under the Nevada restriction of 25% HE.



Would it surprise you to know that Lucky Ladies is countable and profitable?
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
djatc
djatc
  • Threads: 83
  • Posts: 4477
Joined: Jan 15, 2013
December 10th, 2013 at 11:22:07 AM permalink
I would say whatever has the highest minimums since I wouldn't bet more then $1 on a sidebet, so Caesers million dollar diamond royal would be the worst for me.

LL is my favorite. High counts = large bet in circle + large sidebet. It does get pretty obvious when I'm catching a suited 20 every time I put a $5/$10 bet out though.
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
cesardeljuego
cesardeljuego
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 5
Joined: Dec 10, 2013
December 10th, 2013 at 11:28:21 AM permalink
In Casino of Barcelona there is this side bet in Caribbean Stud

-1 € insurance

Receive:

2000€ for a Royal Flush
1000€ for a Straight Flush
300€ for a Four of a Kind
100€ for a Full house

Otherwise, even straight or flush loses

Almost 80% of house edge
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
  • Threads: 167
  • Posts: 5937
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
December 10th, 2013 at 11:29:03 AM permalink
I know the Fire Bet is a bad bet with a very high house edge... but I have a profit on the Fire Bet.

Hit five numbers twice last weekend for $5,000 in pays and probably spent $300 on it.

Last night where the table max is $5 hit four numbers for $125 and it was on the fourth shooter -- so total outlay was $20.

Sure I've had weekends when I never even saw a four number payoff, but in 2013 I saw five-number payoffs five times, in 2012 I didn't keep track but since the Fire Bet started I've seen two 6-number payoffs -- one for $5,000 and one for $10,000.

Yeah, it's a bad bet... but people win bad bets.

On the other hand betting max odds is a wonderful bet, and I have a friend who dumped $20,000 one night taking 100x odds (when it was available) playing at Casino Royale, and I have another friend who lost I don't know how much because he wouldn't tell me, making 1000X odds bets at the Riviera one weekend when they had it.
mdh
mdh
  • Threads: 0
  • Posts: 169
Joined: Feb 23, 2011
December 10th, 2013 at 11:45:22 AM permalink
Is royal match close to this HE ? Playing single deck (face down) at the Elcortez with 4 other plys. last week, I witnessed one of the most bonehead plays ever. 2nd base player gets his first 2 cards suited. Now this pays 3 to 1. He can now play it again if he wants a hit. He takes 6 bucks and places it on the RM bet again (same bet as 1st goaround.),and then proceeds to take another hit. Now I have been watching the way everyone plays(like i always do) and he is playing perfect basic strategy up to this point. He has a 40 $ bet on the betting circle. The dealer shows a 5. He has a 6d and 8d and his hit is a 10d. Yes he hit the match again for another 18 bucks but of course loses the hand when he busts. Did he get caught up in this side bet or is he just a sucker ( or both)?
superrick
superrick
  • Threads: 28
  • Posts: 775
Joined: Jul 14, 2010
December 10th, 2013 at 12:00:11 PM permalink
Quote:

AlanMendelson
Sure I've had weekends when I never even saw a four number payoff, but in 2013 I saw five-number payoffs five times, in 2012 I didn't keep track but since the Fire Bet started I've seen two 6-number payoffs -- one for $5,000 and one for $10,000.

Yeah, it's a bad bet... but people win bad bets.



When playing craps this is a statement that will make you money if you are betting those bad bet!
“Yeah, it's a bad bet... but people win bad bets”

Just ask one of your friendly dealers how many times they see a 4, or 5 point fire bet hit, there are times that the shooters are killing that bet and nobody is betting it.

Quote:

Mission146
Replay, at Boulder Station (Same Source, report based on 2010) is a bet made that involves making any specific point three or more times before Seven-Out. One could theoretically, "Win," more than once in a hand, but only the highest win is paid. The House Edge is 24.79%.



I loved this bet before they took it out of BS, they still have it at The Orleans, the problem there is you can never find a table that isn’t full!

Quote:

AlanMendelson
On the other hand betting max odds is a wonderful bet, and I have a friend who dumped $20,000 one night taking 100x odds (when it was available) playing at Casino Royale, and I have another friend who lost I don't know how much because he wouldn't tell me, making 1000X odds bets at the Riviera one weekend when they had it.


From what I’ve been told, they now have 20 x odds at Casino Royale!
...
Note, all my post start with this is just my opinion...! You do good brada ..! superrick Winning comes from knowledge and skill when your betting and not reading fiction http://procraps4u2.myfanforum.org/index.php ...
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
  • Threads: 167
  • Posts: 5937
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
December 10th, 2013 at 12:14:27 PM permalink
Quote: superrick



Just ask one of your friendly dealers how many times they see a 4, or 5 point fire bet hit, there are times that the shooters are killing that bet and nobody is betting it.



A couple of weeks ago at Caesars I walk up to an empty table and start to chat with the dealers. They told me how about an hour earlier one shooter made all six numbers... but NO ONE was on the Fire Bet. Yet... and this is the funny part... several players took out their cell phones to snap photos of the six lamers on the felt showing that all six numbers were hit.

So a dealer asks, "why are you taking the photo when no one bet it?"

Last time at Caesars when I hit 5 numbers on the fire bet I was the only player who made a fire bet. After I hit the five numbers, every player at the table was making fire bets... and there were no more winners.
petroglyph
petroglyph
  • Threads: 19
  • Posts: 3360
Joined: Jan 3, 2013
December 10th, 2013 at 12:21:32 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

A couple of weeks ago at Caesars I walk up to an empty table and start to chat with the dealers. They told me how about an hour earlier one shooter made all six numbers... but NO ONE was on the Fire Bet. Yet... and this is the funny part... several players took out their cell phones to snap photos of the six lamers on the felt showing that all six numbers were hit.

So a dealer asks, "why are you taking the photo when no one bet it?"

Last time at Caesars when I hit 5 numbers on the fire bet I was the only player who made a fire bet. After I hit the five numbers, every player at the table was making fire bets... and there were no more winners.



Do the tables go through the trouble to mark with lamers if no one bets the fire?
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
  • Threads: 167
  • Posts: 5937
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
December 10th, 2013 at 12:39:21 PM permalink
Quote: petroglyph

Do the tables go through the trouble to mark with lamers if no one bets the fire?



Yes.

Does the dealer on the side of the table without any players move the puck to the point? Of course he does.
petroglyph
petroglyph
  • Threads: 19
  • Posts: 3360
Joined: Jan 3, 2013
December 10th, 2013 at 12:48:44 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Yes.

Does the dealer on the side of the table without any players move the puck to the point? Of course he does.



Wasn't sure Alan. I guess I was thinking of the ATS bet where if no one was betting it they didn't mark all the numbers rolled, but that would require the box person doing something.

I just didn't know. They don't have the fire in Laughlin and removed the ATS.
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
  • Threads: 167
  • Posts: 5937
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
December 10th, 2013 at 1:04:07 PM permalink
There is a very practical reason for marking the fire bets as they hit: if a new player comes to the table he can see that the fire bet is already in play.

I have come to tables on a come out roll and seeing a lamer or two tells me it's too late for the fire bet for this shooter. Imagine a dispute that could erupt if there were no lamer and a new player came to the table after a point had been made.

Putting the lamer on the point(s) made tells new players "too late" so there can't be a dispute.
petroglyph
petroglyph
  • Threads: 19
  • Posts: 3360
Joined: Jan 3, 2013
December 10th, 2013 at 1:14:56 PM permalink
@Alan

Congrats on your recent win!

Did you hit any horns on the co's?
beachbumbabs
beachbumbabs
  • Threads: 100
  • Posts: 14260
Joined: May 21, 2013
December 10th, 2013 at 2:22:55 PM permalink
Quote: 1BB

Would it surprise you to know that Lucky Ladies is countable and profitable?



No, because I read it here that it was both! Gotta love this forum.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
  • Threads: 207
  • Posts: 10992
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
December 11th, 2013 at 9:50:45 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

There is a very practical reason for marking the fire bets as they hit: if a new player comes to the table he can see that the fire bet is already in play.

I have come to tables on a come out roll and seeing a lamer or two tells me it's too late for the fire bet for this shooter. Imagine a dispute that could erupt if there were no lamer and a new player came to the table after a point had been made.

Putting the lamer on the point(s) made tells new players "too late" so there can't be a dispute.

That reason doesn't work. Many casinos do not allow Fire bets after the first roll, even if that first roll is not a point.

The real reason is much more basic. Procedure. Habit. Rules.

And particularly for new players who have never seen the Fire Bet. When they see the markers, they might ask what it's for.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
AcesAndEights
AcesAndEights
  • Threads: 67
  • Posts: 4300
Joined: Jan 5, 2012
December 11th, 2013 at 10:47:34 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

That reason doesn't work. Many casinos do not allow Fire bets after the first roll, even if that first roll is not a point.

The real reason is much more basic. Procedure. Habit. Rules.

And particularly for new players who have never seen the Fire Bet. When they see the markers, they might ask what it's for.


Even better, they want EVERYONE to know when it hits, even if no one bet on it. Dealers can say "hey look at that, y'all would have just won 250-1 if you had put your money down at the beginning...so sad..."
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
  • Jump to: