Craps Max Bet Question

If a craps table is a $5 minimum to $100 maximum, what does that mean for the maximum odds bet?

For example, if the craps table has 3x 4x 5x odds, am I limited to a $20 pass line 6 or 8 with $100 odds? Or can I make a $100 pass line bet with $300, $400, $500 odds behind?

I was curious about this in general and specifically towards Colorado which has a state law that says the maximum bet at a casino can only be $100. But this question also would apply towards Vegas which has higher maximum bets.

The Wiz's craps game is coded such that the odds to not obey the maximum. I am curious to this question as well, but I'm not entirely sure a place like Casino Royale would allow tens to hundreds of thousands worth of odds though.

Quote: gambler

If a craps table is a $5 minimum to $100 maximum, ...

The sign refers to the amount of a PASSLINE bet. It does not limit the odds bet to that amount, nor does it limit the DontPass to that amount. The sign is the limit on the PassLine and the Placebets.
Even in a casino with a limit on the odds bet, that is the limit on PassLine Odds. Don'tPass odds would be higher.

Also the limit is on the BET, not the number. So if you are at a 100.00 mximum table: you could have a passline bet of up to 100, the allowable odds beyond that AND you could also make a PLACE bet up to 100.00 on that number.
A limit on the odds bet refers to odds on a passline bet, not odds on a DontPass bet.

At might rate of play, ... the only portion of the sign I have to pay attention to is the LOWER limit.

Quote: FleaStiff

So if you are at a 100.00 mximum table: you could have a passline bet of up to 100, the allowable odds beyond that AND you could also make a PLACE bet up to 100.00 on that number.

The Wiz' simulator actually has separate betting areas for place & buy. Remember that thread where I played that simulator, with a 1000 start and 1000 limits, up to almost 200,000? One way I did it was 1000 come bets, with max odds, as well as 1000 pass AND 1000 buy on all the numbers.

In a real casino, where a buy bet is a place bet with a button on it, you can't do that. But if any online sites a similar to the Wiz' simulator, then you can beat the max in this manner (at the cost of the slightly higher edge on the extra bet.)

Quote: FleaStiff

... the only portion of the sign I have to pay attention to is the LOWER limit.

LOL. Me too. But even that low limit can be ignored when playing the 'junk in the middle.' I've played at $5, $10 and $15 tables where those middle bets could be as low as $1.

Does it go up once you get to a $25 table? I wouldn't know, but if it did, I'd imagine it would be $5 for those bets.

In Colorado the maximum bet is $100, and that means the odds bet is limited to $100. You can make a PL bet of $100, but your odds bet is also limited to $100.

The minimums apply to everything EXCEPT the middle, where the minimum is $1. I am not sure but I would think that some casinos would prevent you from betting just the middle for under the minimum.

In most casinos, the maximum I think would apply to the odds bet as well. I haven't seen it in action and I'll have to ask that question next time I am down in Vegas.

Quote: ahiromu

The Wiz's craps game is coded such that the odds to not obey the maximum. I am curious to this question as well, but I'm not entirely sure a place like Casino Royale would allow tens to hundreds of thousands worth of odds though.

There is usually some amount that the sum of all your odds bets on the table cannot exceed. It is often from $2K to $10K in smaller casinos. Certainly Casino Royal would not let you put down a $100K odds bet. I think they have a $2K odds bet. So you can be $20 dollars on pass line ans $2k on the odds, or you can make four $5 PL and Come bets with 100X odds.

Quote: boymimbo

The minimums apply to everything EXCEPT the middle, where the minimum is $1. I am not sure but I would think that some casinos would prevent you from betting just the middle for under the minimum.

In most casinos, the maximum I think would apply to the odds bet as well. I haven't seen it in action and I'll have to ask that question next time I am down in Vegas.

I don't remember where I saw this, but at one casino the dealers said the minimum meant minimum action per come out, and they would not let someone play only a $2 center prop bet -- on a $10 table he had to bet at least $10.

Some places, like most of the Indian casinos around here, limit the maximum payout on the center prop bets, and will limit the allowable odds if the line bet gets too high. On a good long roll I was pressing up and was told that on my next press I would not be able to put the max 10x odds. Alas, we never got to that point.

You can always ask to be allowed to go above the posted maximums - they might say yes. But please do that before you start to play. I was once at a table that was held up for several minutes while we waited for the box / floor person to find someone who could approve it. (The following is for those who believe in craps superstitions.) That long wait iced the dice -- sure enough the next roll was point - seven. Bad for most of us, but good for the high roller who was on the don't.

I would hope that if you exceed the amount that the casino is responsible for telling you. I assume that they won't refuse to pay a bet that goes over.

A craps table in downtown Las Vegas averages $2100 in revenue per day, and one on the strip average $3400 in revenue per day. I would not think that they would want people to bet too much on a single bet.

Tom Breitling describes a high roller that almost bankrupt the casino. Mr. Royalty pulled up at The Golden Nugget one night at the end of September 2004 in his $350,000 Maybach and six hours and three minutes later walked out with $4,753,200 of our money. A week later he came back in for three and a half hours and took us for another $1.5 million. But let me give you an idea of how insane his touch had become. Before he even got to the dice pit, he sat down at a slot machine and hit a $100,000 jackpot.

Shortly after the incident the board of directors elected to discontinue the high limits. They were simply losing too much money and they couldn't afford to keep up the play. In his book Tom says the player went on a run and won $25 million in a string of casinos.

==============================
In 1990, the 'Wall Street Journal' told how a Japanese baccarat player, Akio Kashiwagi, took $6 million from the Trump Plaza in Atlantic City in February, $19 million at the Diamond Beach casino in Darwin the same month and then lost $9 million at the Trump Plaza in May. After his first win at Trump, the management negotiated rules under which Mr Kashiwagi would play for $200,000 a hand in a "freeze-out" game that would end only when he had won or lost $12 million. At one point, Mr Kashiwagi was $5.5 million up, but after 70 hours of play he had fallen behind by $9 million and the game was terminated, though there was apparently a dispute as to who called it off.

On January 3, 1992 Akio was killed, stabbed as many as 150 times with a samurai sword. His body was discovered in his home near Mount Fuji. He is believed to have been murdered by the Yakuza over an illicit business deal gone wrong. Also, at the time of his death, Akio still had casino debts of several million dollars. In the film Casino, the character of K.K. Ichikawa (Nobu Matsuhisa), the Japanese high roller, is based on real-life Akio Kashiwagi.

An article on the risk of ruin of this freeze out challenge is referenced. As the wizard says in his chapter on risk of ruin, a purely mathematical approach to risk of ruin is notoriously difficult, but this paper makes an attempt. The wizard created his tables by simulations.

Thanks paco. I just ordered Double or Nothing. Hope you are getting a royalty. I just started a thread asking for anecdotal blackjack nonfiction books. If you have any favorites, please post.