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PeteM
PeteM
Joined: Feb 14, 2010
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March 4th, 2010 at 7:39:46 PM permalink
I heartily agree with Mr. Cobra! No other game in the casino can match the sizzle and pop of a craps table when the dice are hot. Ten, twelve, fourteen people leaning over the table( including the young lady in the scoop neck sweater) willing the point to hit( except the quiet little guy standing at the hook betting the dark side). Betting with a button? Not being able to watch that stack of red, green,and black wax and wane before my eyes? Bleah!
"Win with a smile, lose with grace."
boymimbo
boymimbo
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March 7th, 2010 at 6:53:57 AM permalink
I had the chance to play RapidCraps last night at Bill's Gambling Saloon (which is on the Northeast corner of the intersection that connects Bally's, Caesar's Palace, and the Bellagio). I took some pictures and a brochure which I'll add when I get back home.

RapidCraps is a ShuffleMaster product. ShuffleMaster also owns RapidRoulette, RapidBaccarat, 3-card Poker, 4-card Poker, and a variety of other table games including the TableMaster. I've got to buy the stock in the company.

The obvious benefits to the casino in RapidCraps is the ability to cut down the staff on the table from 4 to 1 and eliminate all errors in payouts and cheating (through post betting). As well, if the player knows how to use the software, there is the temptation to bet more.

The benefits to the player is that they can see a roll history for the shooter and it keeps a visual display of the player's bet. It also tracks the longest rolls for a shooter and the frequency of numbers hit over time. As well, you can control your bet, and the software tells you what your total bet is. Once you get hang of the software, it is easy to use. The software does have some glitches which I'll go over later. And oh yeah, CHAIRS!

The craps table itself at Bill's was a 14 foot table (it seemed). The table itself was not bouncy (to prevent dice from leaving the table) and the walls in the craps pit were fairly low with the standard pyramids at the end to promote randomness. Because you are sitting, it is difficult to see the results of the dice throw at the other wall. There were either 12 or 14 stations surrounding the craps table. Two posts were at either end which displayed all of the bets at your side of the table, the shooter's history, and the total frequency of each roll which could be reset at any time.

There was one dealer who ran the RapidRoulette computer and another staff person who walked around helping the players.

You buy in by throwing your money on the table. The dealer then loads your money into your station. At Bill's the table minimum was $5 with 3-4-5 odds. The computer did enforce the minimums but the dealer had to tell you how to correct your bet (no error messaging). You select your denomination and press the bet that you want. You then get the options for that bet, such as odds, place, lay, or buy. When the point is hit, a screen comes up giving you the option to place odds. There are "quick buttons" to put the max odds down, to put odds on 1x at a time, or to manually place your odds.

After the point is established, the dealer lets the players put in their bets, which includes all of the standard bets. One issue with center bets (hardways) is that your choices are only to take it down, parlay, or to make the bets "off" (until turned on). If you select the "down" button, it takes down all of your non-contract bets and odds which you have to replace. So, reducing a center bet is not an option, as is the same for place bets. Odds bets on come bets do give you the opportunity to reduce.

The whole process of placing bets takes about 30 seconds, and in that time, I was able to place a six/eight, adjust odds, put on a come bet, and put on hardways (which I normally do not do, I was testing the software).

Once the dice is thrown, it takes about 10 seconds to register the roll and display your winnings (or losings). If the point is hit, it puts all of your place and come bets "off" (with the exception of odds) while leaving your center bets on (you have the opportunity to take off only center bets).

The drawbacks to the game I feel is the obvious lack of comeraderie. There was some there but without chips at the table you had no idea who was betting once and whether your throw was beneficial to other players. Most of all, despite the chairs, if you don't know how to use a computer well, you will not feel comfortable, at all, at this game. The game itself is not the best on the strip, with Strip odds on the horn bets, and 2x on the field of 2 and 12. The game still is slow with many players as it takes time to place bets, but is much much faster on payouts, making crowded tables faster than a "manual" table. There is no reason to lower the game to a $3 game and increase odds to attract more players.

When you leave the table, you select the Cashout option and the game stops while the dealer checks you out and issues you chips which you can use anywhere else in the casino.

Bills placed this table at the head of the casino's table games about 15 yards from the front door. On 8:30 on a Saturday night, there were about 5 active players (including myself). The other craps tables in the casino were very full. For my session itself, I ended up $111 on a $40 buyin, which completely destroys the 244/251 hypothesis on another post.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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March 7th, 2010 at 7:55:15 AM permalink
Thanks for that great report. But a couple questions:


OK. It was a $5 table. But what what the betting unit? For example, if I had $6 on the 6/8, could I press them to $7.50 and get paid $8.75 if they hit? Or even better, press them to $6.60 and get paid $7.70?

I have a strategy where I like to press all my numbers each time, but it only has a good risk/reward ratio if the betting unit is much smaller than the table minimum...


Quote: boymimbo

One issue with center bets (hardways) is that your choices are only to take it down, parlay, or to make the bets "off" (until turned on).

Are you saying that if you win a hard-way bet, it doesn't give you the option to simply take the win and leave the original bet up?


Quote: boymimbo

If the point is hit, it puts all of your place and come bets "off" (with the exception of odds) while leaving your center bets on (you have the opportunity to take off only center bets).

Center bets 'on' is a subject touched upon in another thread.

But what about the odds? Was that right? Odds on come bets remain ON on a new come out roll? Did you mean to say that the odds are off while the flat bet remains on? That makes more sense.


Quote: boymimbo

For my session itself, I ended up $111 on a $40 buyin, which completely destroys the 244/251 hypothesis on another post.

Speaking of other threads, you just had to go there, didn't you? I was gonna congratulate you for the win, but now? (If the new forum software was running, I'd include a Bronx Cheer emoticon!)
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
DrEntropy
DrEntropy
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March 7th, 2010 at 12:13:41 PM permalink
I wanted to check this new game out so I stopped by Bills Gambling Hall. This was on Friday night, about 9 pm. Bills was hopping, but the Rapid Craps table was not... it was about 1/2 full, and seemed very sedate. The table looks weird because teh betting spaces are not on the felt, so instead that posted a bunch of rules / payouts on the felt. I sat down and after watching a few rolls decided not to play. I just couldn't get into it. I also didn't want to put my drink on the little shelf below the monitors where I couldn't see it. Instead I squeezed into a much more active real craps table!

PS Note that the limits at the Rapid Craps and the real craps were all $5.00.
"Mathematical expectation has nothing to do with results." (Sklansky, Theory of Poker).
Nareed
Nareed
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March 7th, 2010 at 5:29:01 PM permalink
After reading all the comments here, I still think I'll try it out on my next trip.

Sight unseesn here are some thoughts on the matter:

It probably won't attract seasoned craps players, except perhaps for dice setters because of the obstacle-free throwing area.

The rapid craps, on the other hand, may attract novices, especially younger people, because it seems less intimidating than a full craps table. I mean, when I first saw the layout on a craps table, I immediately began to look for the manual to play in that thing! ;)

I have noticed that rapid roulette tables aren't as full as real roulette tables. If that's an indication, then rapid craps will proliferate but never be very popular. That may not amtter, as the costs of running it are surely lower than a real craps table: 1 vs 4 dealers, plus likely less maintenance on the surface since there will be less actiont here. It should also likely be quickly reprogrammed for promotions.

Speaking of promotions, one way to draw people in would be to offer a coupon for matching play only on the rapid craps table.

To sum up: we'll see.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
boymimbo
boymimbo
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
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March 7th, 2010 at 5:42:19 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Thanks for that great report. But a couple questions:

OK. It was a $5 table. But what what the betting unit? For example, if I had $6 on the 6/8, could I press them to $7.50 and get paid $8.75 if they hit? Or even better, press them to $6.60 and get paid $7.70?



You have to get paid in whole dollars as that's how you're paid out. I am not sure what they do if you put odd odds on a 5 or 9. So you can't bet $8 on a 5. I think the casino should allow it and just round your money down on the payout.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Quote: boymimbo

One issue with center bets (hardways) is that your choices are only to take it down, parlay, or to make the bets "off" (until turned on).

Are you saying that if you win a hard-way bet, it doesn't give you the option to simply take the win and leave the original bet up?



No, it's left up until it's down, including the come out roll.

Quote: DJTeddyBear


Quote: boymimbo

If the point is hit, it puts all of your place and come bets "off" (with the exception of odds) while leaving your center bets on (you have the opportunity to take off only center bets).

Center bets 'on' is a subject touched upon in another thread.

But what about the odds? Was that right? Odds on come bets remain ON on a new come out roll? Did you mean to say that the odds are off while the flat bet remains on? That makes more sense.



Odds on the come out roll are all turned off. I don't know if you can turn it on. Contract bets are always on.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
Doc
Doc
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March 12th, 2010 at 9:59:06 PM permalink
Quote: EnvyBonus

Quote: cclub79

I'd say it might be a good idea if they can use it to get around "No table games" laws in certain states



They have at least one of these at Harrah's Cherokee, for just this type of reason.



Question: Have you personally seen this at Cherokee or just heard they might have some? Their web site does not mention Rapid Craps but does list two other "electronic" table games. I visited Cherokee once about three years ago and have not returned, because I do not play slots and did not find anything of interest there. I tried their electronic blackjack and did not care for it. If you have actually seen the Rapid Craps there, do you recall what min/max limits they had on the tables?
EnvyBonus
EnvyBonus
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March 13th, 2010 at 8:04:55 AM permalink
Quote: Doc


Question: Have you personally seen this at Cherokee or just heard they might have some? Their web site does not mention Rapid Craps but does list two other "electronic" table games. I visited Cherokee once about three years ago and have not returned, because I do not play slots and did not find anything of interest there. I tried their electronic blackjack and did not care for it. If you have actually seen the Rapid Craps there, do you recall what min/max limits they had on the tables?



I personally have not seen it, but I have a friend who goes there every few months and he told me about it. He last went in early January. He also went around October of last year, but did not see a craps table at that time.

He told me the limits were $2 / $500. I grilled him about the $2 minimum, but he was confident about it. He couldn't remember what the max odds allowed were.
DeMango
DeMango
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March 13th, 2010 at 9:49:10 AM permalink
Obviously it was not a Rapid Craps table, just an electronic game. There are no real tables in NC.
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
Doc
Doc
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March 13th, 2010 at 9:49:54 AM permalink
Thanks for the info. If friends want to go back to Cherokee, this might give me something to do. I have never tried Rapid Craps.

Edit: Ooops! Posted at the same time as someone else. Guess I need more info. Once in a California tribal casino I saw an electronic craps game (not all that different than the games on the Wizard's sites) and I wasn't willing to put my money in it. If there were actual dice being rolled by a person as in Rapid Craps, that might be worth trying once. I thought earlier speculation was that Rapid Craps might somehow get around the prohibitions. Anyone know about this for certain?

Cherokee does have "table games" as in their blackjack game that has a "dealer", chips, and electronic images of the cards.

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