Pai Gow in Vegas

I've played Pai Gow (tiles) for years in Vegas, but until a recent trip to Venetian, never had a few advantage plays offered. First off, the player bank was offered in alternate hands at ANY spot rather than having it rotate between dealer and EACH spot, and ALL players could participate as banker. So at a table with 3 players, instead of having the deal offered to each player every 6th hand, every player could be banker every other hand. But the kicker that I had never seen previously was the player being able to bank for 10% MORE than their last hand. If you were betting a flat amount of say $100, it means you could bet $110 while banking for half your hands, AND you would get ties on you bigger bets. Not sure if the Wizard can figure the math on this, but if a player can bet half the hands with both a 10% and winning ties, it has to have a positive effect.

Was anyone else aware of this?

I think the MGM Grand and Mandalay Bay allow 10% more when banking as well.

For the perfect-strategy player at the Venetian (whose house way is better for the player than other house ways), the combined return is:

((1.0 x -0.016031) + (1.1 * 0.001962)) / 2.1 = -0.006606

So the house still has an advantage of 0.66% at the bare minimum, and achieving that would require playing the two strategies flawlessly (dealer-banking strategy and player-banking strategy) and that you bank every other hand. If those conditions are not met, the house edge is even higher.

Just play $25 so you can pay a 4% commission...

Quote: teddys

Just play $25 so you can pay a 4% commission...

This is good advice because it is results in a lower house edge than betting 10% more when banking.

Betting $25 and paying 4% commission, banking every other hand, and using perfect strategy in both situations, reduces the combined house edge to 0.4031%.

If you play at the MGM Grand, they will (or used to) let you prepay the $1, which reduces the commission to 3.76%. The combined house edge in this scenario is 0.3967%.

Quote: JB

This is good advice because it is results in a lower house edge than betting 10% more when banking.

Betting $25 and paying 4% commission, banking every other hand, and using perfect strategy in both situations, reduces the combined house edge to 0.4031%.

If you play at the MGM Grand, they will (or used to) let you prepay the $1, which reduces the commission to 3.76%. The combined house edge in this scenario is 0.3967%.

That is awesome. I knew it was a good deal but that is great. Lower than most blackjack games.

Quote: JB

I think the MGM Grand and Mandalay Bay allow 10% more when banking as well.

For the perfect-strategy player at the Venetian (whose house way is better for the player than other house ways), the combined return is:

((1.0 x -0.016031) + (1.1 * 0.001962)) / 2.1 = -0.006606

So the house still has an advantage of 0.66% at the bare minimum, and achieving that would require playing the two strategies flawlessly (dealer-banking strategy and player-banking strategy) and that you bank every other hand. If those conditions are not met, the house edge is even higher.

What happens if I'm at a full table? If 4 others are betting $100, and I'm covering their hands + $110 for myself, then it looks to me like there's a small PA.

Quote: rdw4potus

What happens if I'm at a full table? If 4 others are betting $100, and I'm covering their hands + $110 for myself, then it looks to me like there's a small PA.

Let's assume there are 6 other players and the dealer, and that a bet of "1 unit" is $100:

1 unit as player = 1 * -0.016031
7.1 units as banker = 7.1 * 0.001962

( (1 * -0.016031) + (7.1 * 0.001962) ) / ( 1 + 7.1 ) = (-0.016031 + 0.013930) / 8.1 = -0.002101

So if you:

a) bet $100 as player once per orbit (on the hand immediately before it becomes your turn to bank), and
b) bet $110 as banker, and
c) get all of the other players to bet against you when you are banking (which is unlikely), and
d) sit out all other hands where you would be forced to bet as player (excluding the one before your turn to bank), and
e) use perfect strategy when playing and perfect strategy when banking,

then the overall house advantage would be reduced to 0.21%.

Quote: JB

...(c) get all of the other players to bet against you when you are banking....

The problem is they are likely to be playing better strategy than the "House Way". At The Empire, London they informally allow you [other players] to add your previous bet to the Player banker['s bet] and the house then matches the total; however I'm not sure how often the bank is offered. At Golden Nugget, when I was playing on my own (I'm still learning the game), the minimum to play was £10 but to bank was £15 - so they insisted I raised my bet when taking the bank. btw I think their normal house edge is -1.591 901%.


btw when playing Super Pan 9, I used to always take the bank as some players didn't even know correct strategy and played worse than "House Way". Now if you can find players like that....!

At Wynn and Encore they allow multiple players to bank together based on the previous hand played. So If I bet 100 and my buddy bet 100 we could bet 220 as the bank. Does this create any type of change to the house edge?