Defensive two-point conversion
Poll
 | 3 votes (18.75%) | ||
| | 8 votes (50%) | ||
| | 4 votes (25%) | ||
| | 1 vote (6.25%) |
16 members have voted
Quote: RudeboyoiAnyone get to see this? I was watching the game on gamecast. I had to do a double take. Expected to see the score 14-14. Next thing I knew it was 13-16.
http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2596424-saints-block-pat-become-1st-nfl-team-to-score-defensive-2-point-conversion?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming-league?is_shared=true#
Wow! What will see next -- a one-point safety? This will totally screw up by coveted NFL database I've been maintaining for 15 years. I don't have any coding for this event, because I never knew such an event was possible. I would have thought what happened resulted in a touchdown.
The question for the poll is what do you think about it?
If this happened in the Super Bowl, I could see a lot of disputes on props it potentially effects.
Been in college for as long as I can remember, any sportsbook should already have it in their rules on how to grade it for prop bets
Yes. It just started this season.Quote: DRichI think that was a new rule just implemented this season.
Quote: AyecarumbaYes. It just started this season.
Yep, and took this long to actually matter.
Last football game I went to, Northwestern at Notre Dame (Nov. 2014), NW scored a defensive conversion for 2 pts in the first half and won in OT. Commented that I'm shocked that I saw one live, and we left early...oops!!
Quote: WizardWow! What will see next -- a one-point safety? This will totally screw up by coveted NFL database I've been maintaining for 15 years. I don't have any coding for this event, because I never knew such an event was possible. I would have thought what happened resulted in a touchdown.
The NFL rules, like the NCAA rules that allow the same thing, consider a defensive 2-point return the same as what you would call it had the offense scored 2 points - a touchdown.
Note that an actual safety on an extra point attempt is worth 1 point. 1-point Safeties are more likely now that the defense can return the ball; for example, if a defensive player intercepts a pass on the 1-yard line, then runs into his own end zone and is tackled there.
Quote: NFL Rule 11-1-2
TYPES OF SCORING PLAYS. Points are scored as follows:
(d) Try after touchdown: 1 point (Field Goal or Safety) or 2 points (Touchdown)
Quote: NCAA Football Rule 8-1-1
The point value of scoring plays shall be:
Successful Try:
Touchdown — 2 Points
Field Goal or Safety — 1 Point
Quote: DRichI think that was a new rule just implemented this season.
If so, would that have been a touchdown last season?
In all seriousness, I thought it should have been scored a touchdown this season. Again in all seriousness, they didn't ask me my opinion ;-(Quote: WizardIf so, would that have been a touchdown last season?
Quote: WizardIf so, would that have been a touchdown last season?
I am under the impression that props specifically leave out extra points for touchdown props. Remember, technically a 2-point conversion is a "touchdown", and those have been in the NFL for, what, 20 years (and college football for much longer - and I think the old AFL had them as well).
Also note that if a team scores a touchdown at the end of the fourth quarter in an NFL game, they must come out for the conversion regardless of the score (I think it's because points are one of the division and wild card tiebreakers), although if it wouldn't change the result of the game, what pretty much always happens is, the offense takes a knee, since this is what it would do if it was ahead by 1 or 2 (to prevent the defense from blocking a kick and running it back for 2). This is what happened in Green Bay's game on Thursday. In college, they only have to do it if the score margin was less than 3 either way, and again, if the scoring team is ahead, invariably the QB takes a knee.
I hear there's a snowstorm headed up to the Sierra Nevada this week, which means the skiers will be on I-80 in force on Friday; why do I expect one of the most-often questions asked at the sports books in Reno & Tahoe this weekend to be, "What do you mean, I can't bet on De La Salle (in the California state high school football championship game)?"
Which begs the question; if the defense blocks the point after touchdown attempted kick for the attempted 1 point, and then runs it for a touchdown( call it score) to the other end of the field, how the hell is that scored now. I thought I understood American style football. Now I realize I don't.Quote: TwoFeathersATLIn all seriousness, I thought it should have been scored a touchdown this season. Again in all seriousness, they didn't ask me my opinion ;-(
Quote: WizardIf so, would that have been a touchdown last season?
I believe it was a dead ball last year once possession was gained by the defense.
Quote: WizardIf so, would that have been a touchdown last season?
Last year it would be a dead ball.
Quote: TwoFeathersATLWhich begs the question; if the defense blocks the point after touchdown attempted kick for the attempted 1 point, and then runs it for a touchdown( call it score) to the other end of the field, how the hell is that scored now.
That is exactly what happened yesterday. It is worth two points to the defense and called a "defensive point after touchdown."
Quote:I thought I understood American style football. Now I realize I don't.
Sometimes even the commentators don't know an obscure rule -- especially regarding when to run time off the clock in rare situations.
Quote: WizardThat is exactly what happened yesterday. It is worth two points to the defense and called a "defensive point after touchdown."
Sometimes even the commentators don't know an obscure rule -- especially regarding when to run time off the clock in rare situations.
It drives me crazy when commentators say something and I am like WTF are you talking about. I don't know if it because I listen to a lot of talk radio or what but I appear to be much more educated about football rules than commentators.
Quote: WizardThat is exactly what happened yesterday. It is worth two points to the defense and called a "defensive point after touchdown."
Sometimes even the commentators don't know an obscure rule -- especially regarding when to run time off the clock in rare situations.
It's called a "defensive point after touchdown", and it's two points? I am obviously in wayyyyy over my head. I have to leave this thread now. Goodbye.
Side note, I tried to type the letters B and Y and E. The IPad went nuts, again. I have mentioned this before. "Goodbye" works fine however. I think I might be infected.... You should possibly avoid casual contact...
About the PAT -- that's funny, a safety counts as 1 point. Like, yeah, we're gonna chase the QB 97 yards down the field and tackle him in the end-zone! We want our dang 1 point!!
Quote: GWAEIt drives me crazy when commentators say something and I am like WTF are you talking about. I don't know if it because I listen to a lot of talk radio or what but I appear to be much more educated about football rules than commentators.
Every time I hear Fran Tarkenton as a commentator, I think of Johnny Unitas. He was a commentator for only a few games. One of which had Tarkenton running up the score late in 4th quarter, throwing pass after pass on the verge of breaking a NFL record for completions or yardage, I forget which. When ask about it during the broadcast, Johnny U said " Shouldn't even count it, He just trying to get the record." Johnny U's career as a commentator was very short indeed.
Quote: RSOn a small side-tangent regarding "weird sh** in football"......if a team goes for a super long field goal and the ball is short but lands in the end-zone (let's say a defensive player is standing back there) and he catches it.....does it count like a punt and he can run it back / touch-back / etc.? Or is it ruled a dead-ball? If he can run it back, I'd assume a touchdown would be worth 6 points, yes?
About the PAT -- that's funny, a safety counts as 1 point. Like, yeah, we're gonna chase the QB 97 yards down the field and tackle him in the end-zone! We want our dang 1 point!!
Yes. Missed field goals can be run back for 6 point touchdowns. This rule has been in place for a couple of years? Someone already ran one back for a touchdown a season or two ago.
Quote: AyecarumbaYes. Missed field goals can be run back for 6 point touchdowns.
There is one exception to this; if the ball lands in the end zone without first being touched by someone on the receiving team, it is dead. The same applies in college football. (The end of the Iron Bowl a couple of years ago, when Auburn ran a missed Alabama field goal back for the winning touchdown, was allowed because an Auburn player caught the ball in the air in the end zone. Going by a strict reading of the rules, if the ball bounces into the end zone, but doesn't actually touch the ground in the end zone before it is caught, it can be advanced.)
The reason you don't normally see this happen very often is, if someone tries to run back a missed field goal and doesn't score a touchdown, the team will get the ball where the play ended, instead of from where the kick was attempted.
Based on yesterdays stats a kicked extra point was worth .9 of a point, while going for 2, was worth 1.11 points per try.
Quote: RSAbout the PAT -- that's funny, a safety counts as 1 point. Like, yeah, we're gonna chase the QB 97 yards down the field and tackle him in the end-zone! We want our dang 1 point!!
I'm still confused about this way to score a one-point safety. Not to be confused with the defense illegally batting the ball back into the end zone after a two-point conversion attempt.
No, I'm referring to the defense running the ball into their own end zone and being tackled. Does the tackle have to result in a fumble? If not, I thought that would be a defensive point-after-touchdown, as happened yesterday.
Possibly helpful link: NFL may see its first one-point safety.
what if they change the rules to have a 150 yard field instead of 100? What would that do to bookies (or Wiz's) historical database? Might be good for the economy some would say, create jobs to lengthen the stadiums. I just call BS, again, like most rule changes. Play the game!Quote: AyecarumbaAntonio Cromartie of the San Diego Chargers did it against the Vikings on November 4, 2007. The 109 yard return was the longest play in NFL history (it has since been tied. Note that it will never be beaten, as it is not possible to have a 110 yard play.)
Quote: TwoFeathersATLwhat if they change the rules to have a 150 yard field instead of 100? What would that do to bookies (or Wiz's) historical database?
Right now I wish they would, so I could just delete that database and get my life back. I got destroyed on props on the Sunday Night game. That ending to the Green Bay/Detroit game was also terrible for me. Sometimes I wonder why I bother.
Quote: WizardRight now I wish they would, so I could just delete that database and get my life back.
I thought this stuff IS your life! What you want more time for unicycle riding? :)
So you analyze the prop bets for the Thursday/Sunday/Monday national televised games looking for lines that appear +EV based on past data. Can you give us a few examples of your wagers from last night that didn't work out?
Do placing these wagers incentivize you to watch these games that you might otherwise have little interest in, or do you just check the results the day after?
Quote: WizardI'm still confused about this way to score a one-point safety. Not to be confused with the defense illegally batting the ball back into the end zone after a two-point conversion attempt.
No, I'm referring to the defense running the ball into their own end zone and being tackled. Does the tackle have to result in a fumble? If not, I thought that would be a defensive point-after-touchdown, as happened yesterday.
Possibly helpful link: NFL may see its first one-point safety.
the article refers to the situation where a blocked extra point is recovered by a defender who is then tackled in the defender's own end zone. It does not have to involve a fumble specifically, since the block creates a "live ball" situation.
I assume another situation that would cause this would be Team A's blocked extra point being returned the other way by Team B.
The Team B player is hit short of the goal line and fumbles the ball into the end zone.
The loose ball is picked up by a Team A player.
If the Team A player is tackled in, or runs out of the back of the end zone, is the result a one point safety for Team B?
Quote: WizardI'm still confused about this way to score a one-point safety. Not to be confused with the defense illegally batting the ball back into the end zone after a two-point conversion attempt.
No, I'm referring to the defense running the ball into their own end zone and being tackled. Does the tackle have to result in a fumble? If not, I thought that would be a defensive point-after-touchdown, as happened yesterday.
You may be confused by the term "their own end zone". A team's "own" end zone is the one it is defending. You score a touchdown by getting the ball into your opponent's end zone.
Anything that would be a 2-point safety during the game is a 1-point safety during a conversion attempt, just as anything that is a 3-point field goal during the game is a 1-point "point after touchdown" during a conversion attempt.
Quote: kewljWhat you want more time for unicycle riding? :)
Yes!
Quote:So you analyze the prop bets for the Thursday/Sunday/Monday national televised games looking for lines that appear +EV based on past data. Can you give us a few examples of your wagers from last night that didn't work out?
I hate to relive it but I had big bets on:
First score to be a touchdown (it was a FG)
Team to score first wins (Indy scored first with that FG)
Under 0.5, 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5 and 3 Pitt field goals (six different bets -- they scored three)
Under 3 and 3.5 field goals (there were 4)
A field goal scored in the second quarter -- There was not.
Quote:Do placing these wagers incentivize you to watch these games that you might otherwise have little interest in, or do you just check the results the day after?
Yes -- Unfortunately. Total waste of 3+ hours.
Quote: AyecarumbaAntonio Cromartie of the San Diego Chargers did it against the Vikings on November 4, 2007. The 109 yard return was the longest play in NFL history (it has since been tied. Note that it will never be beaten, as it is not possible to have a 110 yard play.)
Side comment: Probably selective memory, but seems to me so many of these bizarre records get made at the expense of the Vikings. What is that? lol... I do remember this game for that.
Quote: beachbumbabsQuote: AyecarumbaAntonio Cromartie of the San Diego Chargers did it against the Vikings on November 4, 2007. The 109 yard return was the longest play in NFL history (it has since been tied. Note that it will never be beaten, as it is not possible to have a 110 yard play.)
Side comment: Probably selective memory, but seems to me so many of these bizarre records get made at the expense of the Vikings. What is that? lol... I do remember this game for that.
It's the ghost of Fran Tarkenton. hehe
