Poll

6 votes (24%)
1 vote (4%)
11 votes (44%)
5 votes (20%)
2 votes (8%)

25 members have voted

steeldco
steeldco
  • Threads: 52
  • Posts: 4914
Joined: Nov 30, 2011
July 26th, 2015 at 11:22:08 AM permalink
I'm awfully tired of the Tom Brady stuff. In my opinion, he conspired to fix games. He is no better than a Pete Rose, who didn't get caught conspiring to fix games. There is no room in professional sports for this type of crap. None of us knows what his motivation was. Has someone investigated whether there are any gambling connections? What's he hiding on his phone? Bookie numbers or texts? Is he cheating on Gisele? Why not? He obviously is a little light on morals.

Anybody caught cheating should have the book thrown at them...........
DO NOT blindly accept what has been spoken. DO NOT blindly accept what has been written. Think. Assess. Lead. DO NOT blindly follow.
MrV
MrV
  • Threads: 364
  • Posts: 8158
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
July 26th, 2015 at 11:41:52 AM permalink
Brady is Too Big To Fail.

Sure, he's dirty, but he's been the NFL's poster boy for years.

Booting him in the ass and throwing him out, which is what he deserves, will never happen; he's the golden child,

This fiasco proves once again that no matter how much you have, you'll always want more.
"What, me worry?"
GWAE
GWAE
  • Threads: 93
  • Posts: 9854
Joined: Sep 20, 2013
July 26th, 2015 at 12:30:12 PM permalink
Steel, I have been saying for years that I can't wait until someone sues a player or team. Imagine betting 50k on a game in Vegas based on the rules that are enforced just to find out that you lost, possibly because of cheating.

How about the city of Pittsburgh suing the Patriots for spy gate. The city lost millions in tax revenue for the cheating in the playoffs.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed. I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
steeldco
steeldco
  • Threads: 52
  • Posts: 4914
Joined: Nov 30, 2011
July 27th, 2015 at 4:28:18 AM permalink
GWAE, I agree with you wholeheartedly. ANY professional athlete who tried to fix games should get severely punished. This 4 game suspension is a slap on the wrist. There is way too much at risk financially.
DO NOT blindly accept what has been spoken. DO NOT blindly accept what has been written. Think. Assess. Lead. DO NOT blindly follow.
Rigondeaux
Rigondeaux
  • Threads: 30
  • Posts: 2549
Joined: Aug 18, 2014
July 27th, 2015 at 8:27:17 PM permalink
Fixing and cheating are two different things. Unless you're suggesting he cheated to gain an advantage for gambling purposes, which is stupid. The amount of money these guys make by succeeding alone dwarfs anything to do with gambling. It's like suggesting some Wall Street big shot goes around picking pockets and snatching purses.

If you bet on a game, I think part of what you are betting on is the shadier element. You're betting on stuff that happens in the real world. In the real world, players use PEDs, baseball teams manicure the field to their advantage, football teams try to amplify crowd noise, boxing judges favor the guys who bring in the most money, etc. etc. You should factor these things into your bet and, even if you don't, they will help you just as often as hurt you.

Complaining about that is like betting on an election and then complaining that the opposing candidate won by lying and running dirty campaign commercials.
steeldco
steeldco
  • Threads: 52
  • Posts: 4914
Joined: Nov 30, 2011
July 28th, 2015 at 12:00:01 PM permalink
Today the NFL ruled that it has upheld the 4 game suspension given to Tom Brady. I hope this is the end of it, although I do believe that it should have been longer since he knowingly conspired to fix games.
DO NOT blindly accept what has been spoken. DO NOT blindly accept what has been written. Think. Assess. Lead. DO NOT blindly follow.
Gabes22
Gabes22
  • Threads: 15
  • Posts: 1427
Joined: Jul 19, 2011
July 28th, 2015 at 12:17:36 PM permalink
I think this is the biggest sports scandal since the 1919 World Series. To tamper with the central piece of equipment in a game, suggests to me that there are probably dozens of games that the outcome would have changed throughout Brady's career had BB not cheated with Spygate, and Brady had not cheated with the deflation of the footballs. A large reason why I don't watch the NBA is largely because I think the league, to a certain extent, is fixed, and I can't trust the results of a game to be any more authentic than a Hollywood script. If the league doesn't bring the hammer down on him, it calls into question the league's integrity.
A flute with no holes is not a flute, a donut with no holes is a danish
steeldco
steeldco
  • Threads: 52
  • Posts: 4914
Joined: Nov 30, 2011
July 28th, 2015 at 12:27:45 PM permalink
Gabes22, absolutely agree. I am rather astounded as to the number of people who seem to just have shrugged off this conspiracy to fix games.
I don't get it. Like you, the NBA seems to me to be the most corrupt sport. You can see when the refs are calling the game to one team's advantage at times. They are the World Wrestling League of professional sports. I would much rather see games decided on a teams' talent and effort. Otherwise, what's the point?
DO NOT blindly accept what has been spoken. DO NOT blindly accept what has been written. Think. Assess. Lead. DO NOT blindly follow.
steeldco
steeldco
  • Threads: 52
  • Posts: 4914
Joined: Nov 30, 2011
July 29th, 2015 at 5:26:10 AM permalink
I heard a report this morning that stated that Brady had offered to accept a 1 year suspension if the NFL would agree to seal the records. Really? Seal the records? Just makes you go hhmmmm.....
DO NOT blindly accept what has been spoken. DO NOT blindly accept what has been written. Think. Assess. Lead. DO NOT blindly follow.
lilredrooster
lilredrooster
  • Threads: 233
  • Posts: 6698
Joined: May 8, 2015
July 29th, 2015 at 5:57:04 AM permalink
Quote: GWAE

Steel, I have been saying for years that I can't wait until someone sues a player or team. Imagine betting 50k on a game in Vegas based on the rules that are enforced just to find out that you lost, possibly because of cheating.

How about the city of Pittsburgh suing the Patriots for spy gate. The city lost millions in tax revenue for the cheating in the playoffs.




Actually, cheating in sports is so rampant that a bettor needs to accept the fact that it could possibly benefit him or possibly hurt him. In horse racing it is well know that certain trainers routinely juice horses with banned drugs and the bettors factor that into their decisions. You will see some trainers with a winning % around 30% which is kind of like a MLB player batting .475 for an entire season. It's a sad situation and is reflective of our entire society where cheating on Wall Street and on standardized tests is very common. Having said this I would add that cheating is not the same thing as fixing; and fixing in a sporting event is much less common.
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
steeldco
steeldco
  • Threads: 52
  • Posts: 4914
Joined: Nov 30, 2011
July 29th, 2015 at 6:00:56 AM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

Actually, cheating in sports is so rampant that a bettor needs to accept the fact that it could possibly benefit him or possibly hurt him. In horse racing it is well know that certain trainers routinely juice horses with banned drugs and the bettors factor that into their decisions. You will see some trainers with a winning % around 30% which is kind of like a MLB player batting .475 for an entire season. It's a sad situation and is reflective of our entire society where cheating on Wall Street and on standardized tests is very common. Having said this I would add that cheating is not the same thing as fixing; and fixing in a sporting event is much less common.



Isn't cheating and fixing basically the same? The only differentiation being that fixing involves doing it for financial gain?
DO NOT blindly accept what has been spoken. DO NOT blindly accept what has been written. Think. Assess. Lead. DO NOT blindly follow.
lilredrooster
lilredrooster
  • Threads: 233
  • Posts: 6698
Joined: May 8, 2015
July 29th, 2015 at 6:15:17 AM permalink
Quote: steeldco

Isn't cheating and fixing basically the same? The only differentiation being that fixing involves doing it for financial gain?




No, cheating and fixing are definitely not the same. In cheating, the cheating side gains an advantage but it does not necessarily mean that they will win. The Colts still could have beaten the Patriots. In fixing, there is an attempt to predetermine the outcome of the game so that (usually a criminal) will win a bet. Gaylord Perry throwing a spitball is cheating but not fixing. His opponents would still win the game quite often.
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
zoobrew
zoobrew
  • Threads: 13
  • Posts: 309
Joined: Jan 12, 2015
July 29th, 2015 at 6:19:35 AM permalink
Quote: steeldco

Isn't cheating and fixing basically the same? The only differentiation being that fixing involves doing it for financial gain?



There is a huge difference unless you consider every penalty, which is cheating hence the penalty, fixing the game. Does it mean that every game in the steroid era was fixed.

For me a more difficult question: is resting your starters for an up coming playoff games fixing the current game because you as a team have made a conscience effort not to play your best for that game.
steeldco
steeldco
  • Threads: 52
  • Posts: 4914
Joined: Nov 30, 2011
July 29th, 2015 at 6:23:18 AM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

No, cheating and fixing are definitely not the same. In cheating, the cheating side gains an advantage but it does not necessarily mean that they will win. The Colts still could have beaten the Patriots. In fixing, there is an attempt to predetermine the outcome of the game so that (usually a criminal) will win a bet. Gaylord Perry throwing a spitball is cheating but not fixing. His opponents would still win the game quite often.



By that logic, a referee making a few bad calls, and making only a few because he doesn't want to be too obvious, would only be "cheating" instead of trying to "fix" a game? After all, a few bad calls don't guarantee a win.
DO NOT blindly accept what has been spoken. DO NOT blindly accept what has been written. Think. Assess. Lead. DO NOT blindly follow.
MidwestAP
MidwestAP
  • Threads: 22
  • Posts: 1264
Joined: Feb 19, 2012
July 29th, 2015 at 7:02:39 AM permalink
I'm not a Brady fan, nor a Patriot fan, not even close. But, I don't carry the hate some seem to have toward the Patriots, Brady, and Belichick. This was definitely not a sports fix, the outcome was not pre-determined, nor was it done (to my knowledge), to win a bet. Was it cheating? I guess it was because the balls were outside the PSI tolerance, and there wouldn't be any other reason to do that other than to gain an advantage. No different than a pitcher scuffing a ball, a hockey player with a stick that is too curved, or a NASCAR driver/team with a spoiler too long.

In my opinion, any of these offenses should be punished, but 1/4 of the season or more seems excessive.
steeldco
steeldco
  • Threads: 52
  • Posts: 4914
Joined: Nov 30, 2011
July 29th, 2015 at 7:08:04 AM permalink
Quote: MidwestAP

I'm not a Brady fan, nor a Patriot fan, not even close. But, I don't carry the hate some seem to have toward the Patriots, Brady, and Belichick. This was definitely not a sports fix, the outcome was not pre-determined, nor was it done (to my knowledge), to win a bet. Was it cheating? I guess it was because the balls were outside the PSI tolerance, and there wouldn't be any other reason to do that other than to gain an advantage. No different than a pitcher scuffing a ball, a hockey player with a stick that was too curved, or a NASCAR driver/team with a spoiler top long.

In my opinion, any of these offenses should be punished, but 1/4 of the season or more seems excessive.



MidwestAP, I would agree with you if I were absolutely certain that were no other motivations for him doing what he had done. However, I do not know what his motivation was. You do not know what his motivation was. Do we want there to be doubt as to the outcome of the game being fair? I say that there should never be a doubt as to the integrity of a game. Even though it exists now, we need to move toward cleaning it up.
DO NOT blindly accept what has been spoken. DO NOT blindly accept what has been written. Think. Assess. Lead. DO NOT blindly follow.
MrV
MrV
  • Threads: 364
  • Posts: 8158
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
July 29th, 2015 at 7:41:41 AM permalink
Brady did himself no favors in destroying his cell phone once he learned the NFL investigators wanted to look at it, thereby presumably destroying evidence.

Nest: off to court.

Amazing.
"What, me worry?"
steeldco
steeldco
  • Threads: 52
  • Posts: 4914
Joined: Nov 30, 2011
July 29th, 2015 at 7:48:59 AM permalink
Quote: MrV

Brady did himself no favors in destroying his cell phone once he learned the NFL investigators wanted to look at it, thereby presumably destroying evidence.

Nest: off to court.

Amazing.



Unfortunately that action created even more doubt as to what his motivation was. It just shouldn't be condoned and it certainly shouldn't just be written off as a bit of cheating, or gamesmanship.
DO NOT blindly accept what has been spoken. DO NOT blindly accept what has been written. Think. Assess. Lead. DO NOT blindly follow.
MidwestAP
MidwestAP
  • Threads: 22
  • Posts: 1264
Joined: Feb 19, 2012
July 29th, 2015 at 9:05:04 AM permalink
Quote: steeldco

MidwestAP, I would agree with you if I were absolutely certain that were no other motivations for him doing what he had done. However, I do not know what his motivation was. You do not know what his motivation was. Do we want there to be doubt as to the outcome of the game being fair? I say that there should never be a doubt as to the integrity of a game. Even though it exists now, we need to move toward cleaning it up.



You are correct, I can't speak to his motivation, but winning the playoff game seems like it would be motivation enough. Frankly, I'm amazed that the NFL allowed the teams to maintain control of the balls after they are each permitted to set the balls up within the allowable tolerance. This was a gross oversight in their former procedures and imo, not enough blame has been pointed at them.

Players and teams will always try to gain an advantage (stick-em, lineman taping their jerseys tight to their pads, etc.). I read one instance (can't remember the coach, but think it was Parcells) who sent an intern into the opposing team's locker room after they had departed after the game to look for any game plans, scouting reports, etc., that may help him the next time he faced the opponent. Therefore, I don't have any perception that the game is always 'fair'. If someone tries to gain an illegal advantage and is caught, punish him to a reasonable degree, and escalate punishment for future transgression. I just think four games is excessive for this particular infraction.
lilredrooster
lilredrooster
  • Threads: 233
  • Posts: 6698
Joined: May 8, 2015
July 29th, 2015 at 9:22:44 AM permalink
Quote: steeldco

By that logic, a referee making a few bad calls, and making only a few because he doesn't want to be too obvious, would only be "cheating" instead of trying to "fix" a game? After all, a few bad calls don't guarantee a win.




I think you are referring to the NBA's crooked referee and I would say that was fixing because he was tied to gamblers although it's true that he could not guarantee a win. I think your point is that there is a gray area which is certainly true but in general the difference is fairly clear. A heavily favored boxer who takes a dive so a mob guy can win a big bet at 20 to one is clearly fixing, no doubt about it. Another key is whether or not the fix is done due to a payment from criminals trying to win a big bet. Arod juicing to me is not fixing he was trying to deify himself and cared much less about the outcome of any one game.
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
Tanko
Tanko
  • Threads: 0
  • Posts: 1200
Joined: Apr 22, 2013
July 29th, 2015 at 10:15:23 AM permalink
I believe Brady had the balls deflated, and that he deserves his suspension.
But, unless the NFL has more evidence than they are revealing, Brady will win his lawsuit.
What proof do they actually have that he was responsible for having the balls deflated?
If anything, the deflated balls worked against him.
The balls were re-inflated for the second half where he was he was 12 for 14 with 131 yards, and two TD's.
They scored four TD's on their first four possessions in the second half.
As for the phone, any text messages are stored on a server somewhere, and can be retrieved.
lilredrooster
lilredrooster
  • Threads: 233
  • Posts: 6698
Joined: May 8, 2015
July 29th, 2015 at 10:46:36 AM permalink
I hate to be defending Brady, I think he did have those balls deflated but I can totally understand him not wanting to give up his phone. What if he had text messages to a girlfriend (he's married with kids) on that phone. What if he made a bet on a basketball game on that that phone and he knew that that would start rumors that he bet on NFL games. I can totally understand him thinking "who the f are you to tell me to give you my phone." If my employer asked for my phone I would certainly feel that way.
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
  • Jump to: