Ayecarumba
Ayecarumba
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Joined: Nov 17, 2009
December 29th, 2014 at 8:53:34 AM permalink
Quote: sodawater

Done. If the Wizard finishes above 75.000%, I pay what you would owe to him. (Or just pay it directly to Wizard if he wins, at your discretion.)

If the Wizard finishes 75.000% or below, you pay me what you would owe to Wizard in addition to you paying the actual winner.


Congratulations to Wizard for an outstanding season, and still winning despite my "Brady Bunch goes to Hawaii Tiki Curse" backing him to go over 75%.

Sodawater, congratulations on the win. Please PM me with your payment preference. I expect Wizard's info will be posted or PM'd. Thanks again to Ed and Mission for pulling the heavy weight this season.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
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December 29th, 2014 at 10:11:59 AM permalink
Quote: wudged

Is there a PayPal address or how does Wizard want payment?



I will be giving the winnings to the active admins who worked for free during all of 2014. Mission will be collecting the winnings and distributing shares to the others. Mission and BBB will also be given immunity for having to pay their own losses. So, please wait for Mission's instructions on making payment.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
GenWyzgy
GenWyzgy
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December 29th, 2014 at 10:14:39 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Genwyzgy

GB -7
NYG -3
STL +12.5
SF -6 Confidence
CHI OVER 44



[sarcasm]Gee, I'm sure glad I got those picks in![/sarcasm]

I had finally worked my way up to .500 a few weeks ago, only to see everything come crashing down at the end.
steeldco
steeldco
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Joined: Nov 30, 2011
December 29th, 2014 at 10:23:46 AM permalink
Congratulations Wizard!
DO NOT blindly accept what has been spoken. DO NOT blindly accept what has been written. Think. Assess. Lead. DO NOT blindly follow.
Mission146
Mission146
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Joined: May 15, 2012
December 29th, 2014 at 1:25:06 PM permalink
Greetings!

I'd like to thank everyone for playing this game again, and I hope to get my advertising done earlier to attract more players.

I'm also going to be setting up another Playoff Game for this year, open to all, but only those who participated in this game will receive any PM's, but feel free to tell whoever you like. I'll be putting up $25.00 on the game, and I'm just tinkering with some Rules.

Since the playoff games are pretty short (four weeks), it's pretty tough to come up with something that balances awarding good Picks with keeping people mathematically in the game for a decent span of time, but I'm going to try to do that.

I'll send out details, via PM, for payment arrangements, and thanks to the Wizard for generously distributing his winnings! I had a problem with Paypal, so I don't presently have a Paypal, but I'll see if I can set one up if that would be easier.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Mission146
Mission146
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Joined: May 15, 2012
December 29th, 2014 at 2:24:53 PM permalink
Greetings!

The 2015 Playoff Picks Game format and Rules have been posted:

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/sports/20492-wov-playoff-picks-game-2015-official-thread/#post420358

I think it's almost going to be as much luck as skillful Picking, but since the $25 I am posting up is the only money moving either way, we'll just have some fun with it.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
steeldco
steeldco
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December 29th, 2014 at 2:31:35 PM permalink
Mission, for whatever it's worth, I find Paypal easiest to use. But I'll abide by whatever you would like.
DO NOT blindly accept what has been spoken. DO NOT blindly accept what has been written. Think. Assess. Lead. DO NOT blindly follow.
Mission146
Mission146
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Joined: May 15, 2012
December 29th, 2014 at 2:45:26 PM permalink
Quote: steeldco

Mission, for whatever it's worth, I find Paypal easiest to use. But I'll abide by whatever you would like.



I believe most people feel that way, so TeddyS was kind enough to set it up such that I can have everyone who wishes to use PayPal send the money to his Paypal account. I'll be sending that information out, via PM, with the Playoff Picks Game invites later tonight.

For those who do not wish to use PayPal, USPS Postal Money Order, Personal Check and (some) Gift Cards may be an acceptable alternative via mail, but at this point, I'd also prefer PayPal.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Johnzimbo
Johnzimbo
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December 29th, 2014 at 3:07:55 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I will be giving the winnings to the active admins who worked for free during all of 2014. Mission will be collecting the winnings and distributing shares to the others. Mission and BBB will also be given immunity for having to pay their own losses. So, please wait for Mission's instructions on making payment.



Very cool of you Wizard!
Mission146
Mission146
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December 30th, 2014 at 8:05:32 PM permalink
Greetings!

I wanted to update this thread with everyone who, to the best of my knowledge, has paid:

PAID

Mission146: WAIVED
BeachBumBabs: WAIVED
Miplet
GWAE
Paradigm
Wudged
10DollarBri
JW17
JML24
AyeCarumba
Sodawater (Via AyeCarumba-Side Bet)
EdCollins

Committed

Beardgoat

Have Not Heard From

Anyone Else---It's only been a few days and some PM's have not even been opened.

NOTE

If you have sent the payment via Paypal, and did not PM me that you did so, please send such PM to me.


FINAL Results:

Name Wins Losses % Owes
Wizard 56 24 70.00%-
JohnZimbo 62 31 66.67%$3.33
VCUSkyhawk (out early via 3 byes) 16 8 66.67%$3.33
Buzzard (withdrew early) 14 10 58.33%$11.67
Wudged 57 43 57.00%$13.00
Paradigm 50 38 56.82%$13.18
Steeldco 49 41 54.44%$15.56
MWalz9 44 38 53.66%$16.34
EdCollins 46 40 53.49%$16.51
Terapined 42 38 52.50%$17.50
YouCanBetOnThat 43 40 51.81%$18.19
Aluisio 47 44 51.65%$18.35
RDW4Potus 38 36 51.35%$18.65
StrictlyAP 45 44 50.56%$19.44
10DollarBri 46 46 50.00%$20.00
JW17 44 44 50.00%$20.00
Mission146 40 41 49.38%$25.00
Miplet 42 44 48.84%$21.16
SodaWater 44 50 46.81%$23.19
KMUMF 38 44 46.34%$23.66
Genwyzgy 41 48 46.07%$23.93
TGarrettCPA 40 47 45.98%$24.02
AyeCarumba 40 51 43.96%$26.04
Malaru (out early via 3 byes) 17 22 43.59%$25.00
JML24 37 48 43.53%$26.47
Beardgoat 39 51 43.33%$26.67
Ten2Win 39 51 43.33%$26.67
Vendman1 (out early via 3 byes) 15 24 38.46%$25.00
BeachBumBabs (withdrew early) 17 29 36.96%$25.00
GWAE (withdrew early) 13 27 32.50%$25.00
Totals 1,161 1,142 50.41%$571.87
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
teddys
teddys
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December 31st, 2014 at 10:25:01 AM permalink
How much would the Wizard have won (return %) if he had bet $100 on every game according to his picks?
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
Beardgoat
Beardgoat
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Joined: Apr 2, 2012
December 31st, 2014 at 10:31:26 AM permalink
I just Paid. Thanks for reminding me
MidwestAP
MidwestAP
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Joined: Feb 19, 2012
December 31st, 2014 at 11:12:02 AM permalink
Quote: teddys

How much would the Wizard have won (return %) if he had bet $100 on every game according to his picks?



Making the assumption they were all bet at at price of -110, he would have won $5600-$2400-$240=$2960. This is a return of 37% of the total amount he theoretically would have bet.
Paradigm
Paradigm
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Joined: Feb 24, 2011
December 31st, 2014 at 12:05:49 PM permalink
Now multiply by 10 to get to Wiz's bankroll level.....those millionaires, they need big action. Just kidding Wiz, but I am hoping the NFL season was very good to you and it should have been based on your top picks which I assume you used here.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
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December 31st, 2014 at 1:57:26 PM permalink
Quote: Paradigm

... but I am hoping the NFL season was very good to you and it should have been based on your top picks which I assume you used here.



My strategy in the contest and the half-point parlay cards is very similar, and I did quite well with those this year, and last year. However, my money line bets on underdogs didn't do too well. All things considered, I'm about even this season.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Mission146
Mission146
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Joined: May 15, 2012
December 31st, 2014 at 4:33:57 PM permalink
UPDATED UPDATE

Just for the record, I'm not trying to pressure anyone, or anything...it's just the record keeping has left something to be desired the last couple years with both winners saying they don't think they were paid in full...but not necessarily who didn't pay...and no pays aren't supposed to play again.

Greetings!

I wanted to update this thread with everyone who, to the best of my knowledge, has paid:

PAID

Mission146: WAIVED
BeachBumBabs: WAIVED
Miplet
GWAE
Paradigm
Wudged
10DollarBri
JW17
JML24
AyeCarumba
Sodawater (Via AyeCarumba-Side Bet)
EdCollins
Terapined
JohnZimbo
KMUMF
TgarrettCPA

Committed

Beardgoat

Have Not Heard From

Anyone Else---It's only been a few days and some PM's have not even been opened.

NOTE

If you have sent the payment via Paypal, and did not PM me that you did so, please send such PM to me.


FINAL Results:

Name Wins Losses % Owes
Wizard 56 24 70.00%-
JohnZimbo 62 31 66.67%$3.33
VCUSkyhawk (out early via 3 byes) 16 8 66.67%$3.33
Buzzard (withdrew early) 14 10 58.33%$11.67
Wudged 57 43 57.00%$13.00
Paradigm 50 38 56.82%$13.18
Steeldco 49 41 54.44%$15.56
MWalz9 44 38 53.66%$16.34
EdCollins 46 40 53.49%$16.51
Terapined 42 38 52.50%$17.50
YouCanBetOnThat 43 40 51.81%$18.19
Aluisio 47 44 51.65%$18.35
RDW4Potus 38 36 51.35%$18.65
StrictlyAP 45 44 50.56%$19.44
10DollarBri 46 46 50.00%$20.00
JW17 44 44 50.00%$20.00
Mission146 40 41 49.38%$25.00
Miplet 42 44 48.84%$21.16
SodaWater 44 50 46.81%$23.19
KMUMF 38 44 46.34%$23.66
Genwyzgy 41 48 46.07%$23.93
TGarrettCPA 40 47 45.98%$24.02
AyeCarumba 40 51 43.96%$26.04
Malaru (out early via 3 byes) 17 22 43.59%$25.00
JML24 37 48 43.53%$26.47
Beardgoat 39 51 43.33%$26.67
Ten2Win 39 51 43.33%$26.67
Vendman1 (out early via 3 byes) 15 24 38.46%$25.00
BeachBumBabs (withdrew early) 17 29 36.96%$25.00
GWAE (withdrew early) 13 27 32.50%$25.00
Totals 1,161 1,142 50.41%$571.87

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Mission146
Mission146
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Joined: May 15, 2012
January 2nd, 2015 at 6:51:51 PM permalink
UPDATED UPDATED UPDATE

Just for the record, I'm not trying to pressure anyone, or anything...it's just the record keeping has left something to be desired the last couple years with both winners saying they don't think they were paid in full...but not necessarily who didn't pay...and no pays aren't supposed to play again.

Greetings!

I wanted to update this thread with everyone who, to the best of my knowledge, has paid:

PAID

Mission146: WAIVED
BeachBumBabs: WAIVED
Miplet
GWAE
Paradigm
Wudged
10DollarBri
JW17
JML24
AyeCarumba
Sodawater (Via AyeCarumba-Side Bet)
EdCollins
Terapined
JohnZimbo
KMUMF
TgarrettCPA
Beardgoat
Genwyzgy
Youcanbetonthat
Ten2Win
Steeldco

Committed

Have Not Heard From

VCUSkyhawk
Buzzard
Steeldco
Aluisio
RDW4Potus
StrictlyAP
Malaru
Vendman1

NOTE

If you have sent the payment via Paypal, and did not PM me that you did so, please send such PM to me.


FINAL Results:

Name Wins Losses % Owes
Wizard 56 24 70.00%-
JohnZimbo 62 31 66.67%$3.33
VCUSkyhawk (out early via 3 byes) 16 8 66.67%$3.33
Buzzard (withdrew early) 14 10 58.33%$11.67
Wudged 57 43 57.00%$13.00
Paradigm 50 38 56.82%$13.18
Steeldco 49 41 54.44%$15.56
MWalz9 44 38 53.66%$16.34
EdCollins 46 40 53.49%$16.51
Terapined 42 38 52.50%$17.50
YouCanBetOnThat 43 40 51.81%$18.19
Aluisio 47 44 51.65%$18.35
RDW4Potus 38 36 51.35%$18.65
StrictlyAP 45 44 50.56%$19.44
10DollarBri 46 46 50.00%$20.00
JW17 44 44 50.00%$20.00
Mission146 40 41 49.38%$25.00
Miplet 42 44 48.84%$21.16
SodaWater 44 50 46.81%$23.19
KMUMF 38 44 46.34%$23.66
Genwyzgy 41 48 46.07%$23.93
TGarrettCPA 40 47 45.98%$24.02
AyeCarumba 40 51 43.96%$26.04
Malaru (out early via 3 byes) 17 22 43.59%$25.00
JML24 37 48 43.53%$26.47
Beardgoat 39 51 43.33%$26.67
Ten2Win 39 51 43.33%$26.67
Vendman1 (out early via 3 byes) 15 24 38.46%$25.00
BeachBumBabs (withdrew early) 17 29 36.96%$25.00
GWAE (withdrew early) 13 27 32.50%$25.00
Totals 1,161 1,142 50.41%$571.87

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
beachbumbabs
beachbumbabs
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Joined: May 21, 2013
January 3rd, 2015 at 10:09:39 AM permalink
I wasn't going to discuss this, but I think it might be necessary, with that many good members unpaid a week later.

IF I were a third party reading this thread, who had played and owed money, I think knowing my money was ending up in Babs' pocket after she lost badly enough to withdraw midway, would stick a little. The Wiz says he's giving his winnings to the other mods, the board says my debt was waived.

So, what you don't know yet is that when the Wiz asked me before he announced his generous offer, I said no thanks, both for my own reasons and because I didn't think it was right for me to end up with your winnings. I did ask him to waive my lost bet if he was so inclined, which he did, because I thought that was a fair result for me from his generosity.

Mission was not in the same boat, because the rules limited both his exposure, and as commissioner, he couldn't win outright. He also played to the end.

Face was not in the same boat, because he didn't play.

Please don't become a Lemmie on this board if you had an issue with me getting money from the game. I'm not getting paid.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Beardgoat
Beardgoat
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Joined: Apr 2, 2012
January 3rd, 2015 at 10:49:57 AM permalink
I'll come out and say it. I'm pretty upset that my money ended being used to pay out the MODS!








I would have much rather have the payments being sent to myself! In all honesty I don't care who gets the money. I knew at the start of the game that anybody who joined the game could win, and therefore my money could have been going to any member. If someone is really upset that their money is being donated to the Mods then they probably have way too much time on their hands and need to find another hobby other than gambling.
EdCollins
EdCollins
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Joined: Oct 21, 2011
January 3rd, 2015 at 10:50:18 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

... I'm not getting paid.


I don't get it. One doesn't have anything to do with the other.

You're getting recognized for your work as an Adm. That's more than fine. It makes no difference that you played the game and ended up withdrawing. That's irrelevant.

Furthermore, it shouldn't make any difference to all of us who played and lost WHO ends up with the money. WE lost it... who gets it should also be irrelevant and immaterial.
beachbumbabs
beachbumbabs
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Joined: May 21, 2013
January 3rd, 2015 at 10:53:41 AM permalink
Quote: Beardgoat

I'll come out and say it. I'm pretty upset that my money ended being used to pay out the MODS!








I would have much rather have the payments being sent to myself! In all honesty I don't care who gets the money. I knew at the start of the game that anybody who joined the game could win, and therefore my money could have been going to any member. If someone is really upset that their money is being donated to the Mods then they probably have way too much time on their hands and need to find another hobby other than gambling.



lol...thanks for the laugh.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
JW17
JW17
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Joined: Dec 30, 2011
January 3rd, 2015 at 5:49:36 PM permalink
Quote: EdCollins

I don't get it. One doesn't have anything to do with the other.

You're getting recognized for your work as an Adm. That's more than fine. It makes no difference that you played the game and ended up withdrawing. That's irrelevant.

Furthermore, it shouldn't make any difference to all of us who played and lost WHO ends up with the money. WE lost it... who gets it should also be irrelevant and immaterial.



Agreed

I will say I very much enjoy this cheap entertainment. (Cheap as in I can't lose a lot of $$ not that the contest is cheap, I've lost a whole $28 the last 2 years a entire $28 for 104 weeks of entertainment)

I will continue to play. I just hope the contest is much tighter like last year instead of like this year, but who am I to sh*t on the Wiz going 70%

My point is I thought this was for fun, not about who gets paid
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
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Joined: Oct 14, 2009
January 3rd, 2015 at 6:29:09 PM permalink
Quote: Beardgoat

I'll come out and say it. I'm pretty upset that my money ended being used to pay out the MODS!



Either way I get &#$@ kicked in my face.

First I got criticized for not sharing any money from the sale of my Wizard sales to the mods, despite the fact this site has never made anywhere near the expense that went into creating it. Plus, I may or may not have done favors for some of the mods. That is nobody else's business.

Then, when I share my contest winnings with the mods, which are mine to do with as I please, I get criticized that the mods are getting something.

If you lost, what difference does it make who gets your money? YOU LOST!

Excuse me, I need a drink.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
JW17
JW17
  • Threads: 8
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Joined: Dec 30, 2011
January 3rd, 2015 at 6:37:03 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard



Excuse me, I need a drink.



Me too SIP
miplet
miplet
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Joined: Dec 1, 2009
January 3rd, 2015 at 6:38:51 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Either way I get &#$@ kicked in my face.

First I got criticized for not sharing any money from the sale of my Wizard sales to the mods, despite the fact this site has never made anywhere near the expense that went into creating it. Plus, I may or may not have done favors for some of the mods. That is nobody else's business.

Then, when I share my contest winnings with the mods, which are mine to do with as I please, I get criticized that the mods are getting something.

If you lost, what difference does it make who gets your money? YOU LOST!

Excuse me, I need a drink.


Breath, Mike. Read the rest post.
“Man Babes” #AxelFabulous
beachbumbabs
beachbumbabs
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Joined: May 21, 2013
January 3rd, 2015 at 9:10:45 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Either way I get &#$@ kicked in my face.

First I got criticized for not sharing any money from the sale of my Wizard sales to the mods, despite the fact this site has never made anywhere near the expense that went into creating it. Plus, I may or may not have done favors for some of the mods. That is nobody else's business.

Then, when I share my contest winnings with the mods, which are mine to do with as I please, I get criticized that the mods are getting something.

If you lost, what difference does it make who gets your money? YOU LOST!

Excuse me, I need a drink.



I think Beard meant to be sarcastic, Mike, mocking those that would have the issue with it. The first sentence was sarcasm, I think, based on the rest of what he said.

Your generosity was much appreciated. Truly.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Beardgoat
Beardgoat
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Joined: Apr 2, 2012
January 3rd, 2015 at 9:49:10 PM permalink
We'll I guess I wasn't clear in the rest of my post... I have no problem with you giving the money to whoever you want to give it to.
vendman1
vendman1
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Joined: Mar 12, 2012
January 3rd, 2015 at 9:57:48 PM permalink
Mike, as a longish time member let me just say that I thank you for your service WOO/WOV has made me a much smarter gambler. Don't let some of these numbnuts get you down. Also...5 minutes after the Ravens vs. Steelers playoff game let me just say. Go Ravens.
Mission146
Mission146
  • Threads: 142
  • Posts: 16832
Joined: May 15, 2012
January 5th, 2015 at 1:15:48 PM permalink
UPDATED UPDATED UPDATE

Just for the record, I'm not trying to pressure anyone, or anything...it's just the record keeping has left something to be desired the last couple years with both winners saying they don't think they were paid in full...but not necessarily who didn't pay...and no pays aren't supposed to play again.

Greetings!

I wanted to update this thread with everyone who, to the best of my knowledge, has paid:

PAID

Mission146: WAIVED
BeachBumBabs: WAIVED
Miplet
GWAE
Paradigm
Wudged
10DollarBri
JW17
JML24
AyeCarumba
Sodawater (Via AyeCarumba-Side Bet)
EdCollins
Terapined
JohnZimbo
KMUMF
TgarrettCPA
Beardgoat
Genwyzgy
Youcanbetonthat
Ten2Win
Steeldco
StrictlyAP
Vendman1
Aluisio

Committed

Have Not Heard From

VCUSkyhawk
Buzzard
RDW4Potus
Malaru

NOTE

If you have sent the payment via Paypal, and did not PM me that you did so, please send such PM to me.


FINAL Results:

Name Wins Losses % Owes
Wizard 56 24 70.00%-
JohnZimbo 62 31 66.67%$3.33
VCUSkyhawk (out early via 3 byes) 16 8 66.67%$3.33
Buzzard (withdrew early) 14 10 58.33%$11.67
Wudged 57 43 57.00%$13.00
Paradigm 50 38 56.82%$13.18
Steeldco 49 41 54.44%$15.56
MWalz9 44 38 53.66%$16.34
EdCollins 46 40 53.49%$16.51
Terapined 42 38 52.50%$17.50
YouCanBetOnThat 43 40 51.81%$18.19
Aluisio 47 44 51.65%$18.35
RDW4Potus 38 36 51.35%$18.65
StrictlyAP 45 44 50.56%$19.44
10DollarBri 46 46 50.00%$20.00
JW17 44 44 50.00%$20.00
Mission146 40 41 49.38%$25.00
Miplet 42 44 48.84%$21.16
SodaWater 44 50 46.81%$23.19
KMUMF 38 44 46.34%$23.66
Genwyzgy 41 48 46.07%$23.93
TGarrettCPA 40 47 45.98%$24.02
AyeCarumba 40 51 43.96%$26.04
Malaru (out early via 3 byes) 17 22 43.59%$25.00
JML24 37 48 43.53%$26.47
Beardgoat 39 51 43.33%$26.67
Ten2Win 39 51 43.33%$26.67
Vendman1 (out early via 3 byes) 15 24 38.46%$25.00
BeachBumBabs (withdrew early) 17 29 36.96%$25.00
GWAE (withdrew early) 13 27 32.50%$25.00
Totals 1,161 1,142 50.41%$571.87

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
vendman1
vendman1
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Joined: Mar 12, 2012
January 5th, 2015 at 1:40:46 PM permalink
Sending payment in a few.
steeldco
steeldco
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Joined: Nov 30, 2011
August 29th, 2015 at 9:42:24 AM permalink
Is this going to be run again this year?
DO NOT blindly accept what has been spoken. DO NOT blindly accept what has been written. Think. Assess. Lead. DO NOT blindly follow.
beachbumbabs
beachbumbabs
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August 29th, 2015 at 11:17:16 AM permalink
Quote: steeldco

Is this going to be run again this year?



Glad you asked; my clock was ticking as well...Mission146?
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Mission146
Mission146
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August 29th, 2015 at 7:20:05 PM permalink
Absolutely. I plan to do invites between Tuesday and Thursday.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
GenWyzgy
GenWyzgy
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September 3rd, 2015 at 1:08:31 PM permalink
I had a cruddy season last year, but sure want to play again this year. Looking for an invite!
Mission146
Mission146
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September 3rd, 2015 at 8:18:31 PM permalink
Coming soon!
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
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