Buzzard
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April 10th, 2014 at 9:01:47 PM permalink
I gave up on the Orioles after they replaced George Kell with that Robinson kid. And then to trade a great 5 inning pitcher like Milt Pappas for another Robinson , who was " not a young 30 ". What the hell were they thinking ?
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Tomspur
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April 10th, 2014 at 9:03:24 PM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

I gave up on the Orioles after they replaced George Kell with that Robinson kid. And then to trade a great 5 inning pitcher like Milt Pappas for another Robinson , who was " not a young 30 ". What the hell were they thinking ?



Buzz, come on dude, we are now in 2014......Surely you can put those demons to bed and move on? :)
“There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.” - Winston Churchill
Buzzard
Buzzard
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April 10th, 2014 at 9:54:01 PM permalink
I still remember Willie Mays stumbling around in the outfield as a new York Met ... SAD..

But if anybody feels the need to say HEY, here's your chance.
Nite, all http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9nO9Ro_kd4
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Face
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Face
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April 11th, 2014 at 8:39:08 AM permalink
Quote: Tomspur


Steroids will forever change the game and in my opinion, they should simply be legalized and regulated in the off season. They help you heal quicker and build up muscle quicker after a serious injury.



For medical reasons, I cannot comprehend how they're not allowed.

You blow out your knee, and they'll put it all back together using dead people parts and space age concoctions. That is acceptable.

Blow out your neck and they'll screw it back on with titanium screws and laser guided surgical instruments so your head don't fall off. That is acceptable.

But tear a labrum, and you can't take a shot to accelerate the healing? Every procedure in sports medicine is an unnatural, potentially dangerous course to accelerate healing and give unnatural performance. Why draw the line where we have?
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LarryS
LarryS
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April 11th, 2014 at 9:32:16 AM permalink
Quote: Face

For medical reasons, I cannot comprehend how they're not allowed.

You blow out your knee, and they'll put it all back together using dead people parts and space age concoctions. That is acceptable.

Blow out your neck and they'll screw it back on with titanium screws and laser guided surgical instruments so your head don't fall off. That is acceptable.

But tear a labrum, and you can't take a shot to accelerate the healing? Every procedure in sports medicine is an unnatural, potentially dangerous course to accelerate healing and give unnatural performance. Why draw the line where we have?



Because anabolic steriods are not medically indicated for "healing". When a police officer gets a knee injury...they dont pump him with testosterone in order to get him back on the streets faster. Police are more valuable to society than a tight end. A history teacher gets injured skiing on the weekend...they dont pump him with testosterone because he has positive impact on the children when he teaches. Even for short periods....its not medically prudent to use these meds ..its not indicated for use like that on the package labeling.

Anabolic steriods are not used for common folk to treat injury to help them heal. If you tore a tendon, you would not be given testosterone as part of your treatment...no matter how important your job was to our society.

So these drugs are not medically indicated for us the common man for injury recovery, but for the exhaulted athelete, for our entertainment...its better that THEY use these drugs?
Face
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April 11th, 2014 at 11:06:31 AM permalink
Quote: LarryS


So these drugs are not medically indicated for us the common man for injury recovery, but for the exhaulted athelete, for our entertainment...its better that THEY use these drugs?



Well...yeah.

My cousin tore his acl clean in half playing football with us. A common man, does pools for a living. And he just walked that ish off. Still doesn't have an acl, still does pools, still plays football with us every Thanksgiving. He didn't get it fixed because he doesn't need it fixed.

A pro athlete obviously needs it fixed. Needs it to do his job. So he has to have all sorts of unnatural things done to him to allow him to work. Knives, cadavers, plates, screws, all that mess.

Now, granted, I dunno the difference between all the types of steroids. HGH, "clear", whatever, I dunno what they do differently from each other, how safe they are vs the other, or anything, just that they grow muscle. And from a base performance standpoint, no, I'd not encourage rampant use for a physical edge.

But in the case of healing, why not? If Peyton Manning was a common man, dude would be on SS/disability right now and probably for the rest of his life. But he's a pro, so they reattached his head and he went to the Super Bowl last year. If we'll allow that... how are roids so different?
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beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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April 11th, 2014 at 1:51:09 PM permalink
FWIW, my personal experience with steroids. 2004, I wake up one morning with a large slice of vision missing from my right eye. Ran to opthamologist, who hustled me to retinal specialist, who shoved me to neurologist, who expedited me to MRI, then slammed me into the hospital, all in 8 hours. Idiopathic optic neuritis, an inflammation of the optic nerve caused by a sclerosis in the brain of unknown origin. Slapped IV solumedrol (heavy steroid) into me, not sure of dosage, which skyrocked my blood sugar above 500, so insulin administered. Repeat every 6 hours for 3 days. Vision returns as steroids subdue swelling. According to neurologist, had to get treatment w/in 24 hours or permanent blindness likely. Cause likely stress; diagnosis due to lack of other symptoms. No recurrence, so not MS. Thank God for steroids. Took 30 days to get my medical clearance back, but no further vision problems. Apparently I went through a complete personality change as part of it, became very aggressive and impatient.

So I'm kind of on the fence about this. Steroids heal injury to soft tissues. Pro sports are full of soft tissue injury, even by routine play and stress on muscles, ligaments, tendons. Best treatment of many injuries would seem to indicate a steroid regimen. Injury is catastrophic to teams with limited seasons and heavy playing schedules; they need their franchise players and their workhorses alike, not just healthy, but fast healed. But steroids as part of bodybuilding and strength training seems abusive on some level, sensible part of a workout on another. I just don't know.
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LarryS
LarryS
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April 11th, 2014 at 2:10:54 PM permalink
Quote: Face

Well...yeah.

My cousin tore his acl clean in half playing football with us. A common man, does pools for a living. And he just walked that ish off. Still doesn't have an acl, still does pools, still plays football with us every Thanksgiving. He didn't get it fixed because he doesn't need it fixed.

A pro athlete obviously needs it fixed. Needs it to do his job. So he has to have all sorts of unnatural things done to him to allow him to work. Knives, cadavers, plates, screws, all that mess.

Now, granted, I dunno the difference between all the types of steroids. HGH, "clear", whatever, I dunno what they do differently from each other, how safe they are vs the other, or anything, just that they grow muscle. And from a base performance standpoint, no, I'd not encourage rampant use for a physical edge.

But in the case of healing, why not? If Peyton Manning was a common man, dude would be on SS/disability right now and probably for the rest of his life. But he's a pro, so they reattached his head and he went to the Super Bowl last year. If we'll allow that... how are roids so different?



A doctor providing these drugs for injury would be the equivalent to the type of behavior michael jacksons doctor exhibited.
Dr Conrad Murray prescribed a medication that was indicated for in hospital use during anesthesia.And he prescribed it for home use for inducing sleep. So your theory being....if it works....why not? The drug was prescribed outside of the the prescribing monograph of that drug. And in prescribing outside the indications that are approved by the FDA.....the doctor takes on all the liability themselves. Every single penny of a lawsuite would come from him. He prescribes outside of the indicated conditions layed forth by the manufacturer....and the consequences are huge when something goes wrong. Malpractice insurance wont cover that.

Just as there are doctors that will write prescriptions for narcotics as long as they get the fee for a doctors visit.....there will be doctors that similarly would prescribe steriods for a price.
But as far as legit medical doctors doing it....its not gonna happen. It has nothing to do with wondering if they are effective....yes they are....and so was propofol for michael jackson until he ran into a problem......death

I dont feel sorry ofr Manning in that he could afford the best and most eexpensive medical care. There is no indication he used these drugs. It took him over a year to recover.....the expected time... As far as I know all the meds he took and all the procedures he went through were indicated for his condition.

I dont put any more weight in getting an athelete back to work faster than a teacher or a fireman, juggler, or sanitation man.....they all need to support themselves and often a family. Athletes havent corenerd the market on "needing to get back to work":......we all do.

Since we are on a basebasll thread.....the players will get their contract paid out whether it takes 3 months to heal or 6 months...and the minimum salary is 300k.
Face
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Face
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April 11th, 2014 at 4:05:20 PM permalink
Quote: LarryS

A doctor providing these drugs for injury would be the equivalent to the type of behavior michael jacksons doctor exhibited.
Dr Conrad Murray prescribed a medication that was indicated for in hospital use during anesthesia.And he prescribed it for home use for inducing sleep. So your theory being....if it works....why not? The drug was prescribed outside of the the prescribing monograph of that drug. And in prescribing outside the indications that are approved by the FDA.....the doctor takes on all the liability themselves. Every single penny of a lawsuite would come from him. He prescribes outside of the indicated conditions layed forth by the manufacturer....and the consequences are huge when something goes wrong. Malpractice insurance wont cover that.



Perhaps it's my ignorance of medical information. I was under the impression that there were ways to utilize steroids without major medical impact. I'm not talking the watered down stuff that I use to combat a nasty poison ivy outbreak, but the anabolic stuff athletes use. I thought the "major medical concerns" came by way of overuse and the administering of said chemicals by hyped up jocks instead of knowledgeable medical professionals.

If all HGH is completely bad all the time, perhaps my view will change. But if it's sort of a grey area, then I still fail to see the difference. Medicine is full of side effects and unwanted complications. Some, like chemotherapy, is a necessary evil. Others, like breast augmentation rejection, is just tough luck. Yet all are available for people to obtain happiness and comfort, no matter how misguided.

And to be honest, it's hard to give credence to "the dangers of HGH" when many of the people who would use it engage in what is basically "professional dealers of brain damage" =p
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LarryS
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April 11th, 2014 at 5:59:36 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

FWIW, my personal experience with steroids. 2004, I wake up one morning with a large slice of vision missing from my right eye. Ran to opthamologist, who hustled me to retinal specialist, who shoved me to neurologist, who expedited me to MRI, then slammed me into the hospital, all in 8 hours. Idiopathic optic neuritis, an inflammation of the optic nerve caused by a sclerosis in the brain of unknown origin. Slapped IV solumedrol (heavy steroid) into me, not sure of dosage, which skyrocked my blood sugar above 500, so insulin administered. Repeat every 6 hours for 3 days. Vision returns as steroids subdue swelling. According to neurologist, had to get treatment w/in 24 hours or permanent blindness likely. Cause likely stress; diagnosis due to lack of other symptoms. No recurrence, so not MS. Thank God for steroids. Took 30 days to get my medical clearance back, but no further vision problems. Apparently I went through a complete personality change as part of it, became very aggressive and impatient.

So I'm kind of on the fence about this. Steroids heal injury to soft tissues. Pro sports are full of soft tissue injury, even by routine play and stress on muscles, ligaments, tendons. Best treatment of many injuries would seem to indicate a steroid regimen. Injury is catastrophic to teams with limited seasons and heavy playing schedules; they need their franchise players and their workhorses alike, not just healthy, but fast healed. But steroids as part of bodybuilding and strength training seems abusive on some level, sensible part of a workout on another. I just don't know.



corticosteriods are very helpful for inflamation. Wheter its hydrocortisone cream over the counter or depomedrol via medical supervision

atheletes do not use corticosteriods to heal or bulk up.

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