ChumpChange
ChumpChange 
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aceside
May 17th, 2024 at 10:09:39 PM permalink
Proof that the machines are rigged by what card is in the machine! (concerning Turning Stone casino)
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Written 6 March 2024
This review is the subjective opinion of a Tripadvisor member and not of Tripadvisor LLC. Tripadvisor performs checks on reviews as part of our industry-leading trust & safety standards. Read our transparency report to learn more.
Damien t
Damien t
Rochester, NY5 contributions


A rigged facility with great attractions!
Feb 2024 • Solo
This place, in my opinion, and based on my on-site research, is full of rigged slot machines that are controlled remotely wherein wins, losses and payouts determine your fate on any given machine. I’ve noticed disparities in jackpot amounts, line hit frequencies that revolve around the value of the player to the casino for example: if you’re a player who invests heavy on a regular basis you tend to win more money than a player who wins more than he loses. Now you might say it sounds like that’s normal but in a random game of chance based on an RNG (random number generator) these patterns should not exist yet they absolutely do and they are far from random. I’ve been playing here for roughly two years and it took me 6 months to figure out that their entire operation is a bait and switch scam. The only way this can be is if the slot machine rtp (return to player percentages) can fluctuate based on the player which would mean that that aspect is connected somehow to your win/loss ratio so if you’re up say 100,000 and all the casino has made off of you is 20k then your “player card” once inserted tells the machine to only pay, say 87% instead of the customary 90-91 that is normally the case in NY casinos (disclaimer native casinos are not required to disclose their rtp which is another problem altogether). I’ve recently- after losing 17k in less than 3 hours on medium slot bets (and I’m a very experienced and responsible gambler), 6k my next visit, 8k the next (I’m talking weeks) with no major back and forth no matter what machine I played decided to play with a friends’ card who was a prestige player (one level above mine-saphire- and the second to highest card you can hold) on a day when I was 3 grand down on a losing machine full of dead spins on every denomination and bet level, an absolute bloodbath- so I took MY card out and put in the prestige card and all of a sudden the machine is FULL of line hits and bonuses…I put my card back in and again it’s all dead spins. I repeated this process over the course of an hour just to verify wth I was witnessing and it held true that the prestige card somehow seemed to alter the payout ratio of the machine. And if THAT is possible then what ISNT? I took this info to the authorities (cause I’m a good citizen, see, and cheating good citizens out of their money is kind of a sleazy way to do business, right? Right) and they all got really antsy about me using another card during my game play but none seemed to be bothered about the results of my experiment-including the gaming commission itself. In short, we are being taken for a ride people….if you must go to a casino stick to the commercial casinos and leave the tribals alone. They’re massive and they’re massively crooked.

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In COVID related de-advertising:
A new low for a once great casino
Feb 2022 • Friends
The tribe has eliminated posting payouts or winning slots on they’re casino app. For years they touted big payouts and claimed to post which machines were winning that day. They had a ticker that showed the slot pays throughout the day. In the last year the number got ridiculously small and folks complained openly about poor payouts. Now.......it seems like it’s better for the tribe to hide it. That way you don’t know. Well this guy knows. I research area casinos. I spend money and time at the major casinos. It’s like I’ve said before..... best to not gamble. Your getting a bad deal from these people. My opinion of course. Based on facts.
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Gotta read the small print somewhere, Sapphire Only!:
unfair
Aug 2021
I was at turning stone tonight well every half hour they would chose 5 lucky winners and they would win 500.00 each in free play but turning stone didn't play fair cause all the names they chose are ones who had a Sapphire card every hour they picked these names it was only for Sapphire card holders i don't think that was fair to the ones who don't a Sapphire card just because we don't have a Sapphire card or spend tons of money there it leaves us out
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RTP of Nada!
Terrible payouts on the slots
May 2021 • Couples
Spent three nights and played a lot of slots. What a joke. If you played any more than $1 you got no bonuses at all. if you played the lowest amount you would win some bonuses but they would be like $6 $8 $12. Any bets over a dollar and all you got was dust. Everybody talked about how awful the payouts were. At 8:00 p.m. on Thursday when the place should be packed it was like it was Sunday 3:00 am. It's foolish to play the slots there. Just give him your money and have a good meal. I cannot stress how terrible the slot machines were. Think about it if there's no people to gamble, there's no money to pay out. I've been to turning Stone many many times. there seems to be a gray pall about the place. No smiles no laughing and definitely no payouts. This was the same with the people I came with. Don't waste your time to find out what I have said is true. What a joke!.
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Really, your ID is no good here:
Horrible, Horrible, HORRIBLE!!!
May 2021 • Business
It is impossible to describe how bad this hotel really is in such limited space. It is the biggest jerk around, BS place I have ever stayed, and I have stayed all over the world. I did not drive here, but came with friends. I was asked for ID and showed a NY State ISSUED First Responder card which included my drivers license number, license bar code and picture. They would not accept it. They made me order ANOTHER license online which cancelled out my original one, or they offered me to help find ANOTHER PLACE TO STAY. Meanwhile, my friends already had my bags in the room or I would have told them to screw themselves.
This place has no idea what customer service is. The rooms are old Motel 6 quality, and the bad service kills ANY enjoyment you would have here.
Every single day there was another problem or inconvenience. It's as if they go out of their way to annoy their guests with dated equipment, incompetent staff, and endless license checks and picture taking.
It is a dump, tailor made for only the most desperate local Rubes. STAY AWAY!!!!
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This card is flagged to not win theory is old here:
Payouts have been very weak since covid-19 return
Mar 2021 • Solo
This is more of a frustrating post, more so than shaming Turning Stone/YBR/Point Place. I have been a loyal spender of paychecks in these establishments for a while and have at times, had a few decent wins but it seems like since they reopened after being shut down for covid-19, it's literally dumping money with no return.

I'll be the first to acknowledge that slot machines are rarely in favor of the player but I've lost $1000 multiple times without so much as a ring of a bell for any return. I always assume that something would hit to at least make it interesting but as of late, nothing. Which is more of a shame than anything. I only gamble what I can consciously afford to lose but some sort of decent return would be nice.

Again, I realize the odds are forever stacked against the player but being at a sapphire level and losing constantly feels like my card is flagged to just not win. Enough venting for now.
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No comps for you, and no win/loss statement either:
What a difference
Mar 2020 • Solo
If you are a regular player I suggest playing without a card. I play 50/50 and do extremely better without using my tracking device. Place actually pays when they don’t know who is on the machines. The rng’s are directly matched to your card. Hence free play, win/loss, vouchers, etc. rng stands for random number generator in case you are wondering and it’s not so random with a patron card in play. Even the workers say it’s very suspicious. Good luck everyone! (When it’s about luck)!
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It's not what's on the Jackpot backglass, it's what's on the TITO when you cash out:
Nice place to visit...slot pays are worst around
Feb 2020
The slot machines at TS are HORRIBLE. You are not going
to win there. Better to give your money away to the poor.
Last edited by: ChumpChange on May 17, 2024
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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May 18th, 2024 at 3:58:14 AM permalink
Quote:

... after losing 17k in less than 3 hours on medium slot bets (and I’m a very experienced and responsible gambler), 6k my next visit, 8k the next ...

I didn't read this, I just searched for the words "after losing" and got to the heart of the matter instantly .... WAAAAH!



Chumpchange, I have to ask you, why would you post this? This is a slam at a casino I have to think you do not regularly visit and probably have never been to? Almost certainly being accused of complete nonsense. What redeeming feature did you see here?
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
SOOPOO
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May 18th, 2024 at 4:58:01 AM permalink
I’ve been there a few times. Well known for great golf courses. I have one friend who is a big player there and feels well treated, but he is mostly a poker player and blackjack player. He implies he wins a lot but who knows?

The OP can be summarized as ‘grumpy losers’.
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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May 18th, 2024 at 5:04:55 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

I’ve been there a few times. Well known for great golf courses. I have one friend who is a big player there and feels well treated, but he is mostly a poker player and blackjack player. He implies he wins a lot but who knows?

The OP can be summarized as ‘grumpy losers’.
link to original post

For some reason I thought it was in Colorado, not NY. Maybe Chumpchange has hit this place and is sick of it
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
TigerWu
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dcjohn
May 18th, 2024 at 8:11:52 AM permalink
LOL...I love all these people crying about "rigged casinos," yet none of them ever submit their "proof" to the appropriate authorities.
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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May 18th, 2024 at 8:46:19 AM permalink
more reviews, same guy, no surprises

it really screw up trying to check out reviews before you go to a place. The reviews are full of whining slot players

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Profile/UpstateSlots?fid=d5460335-d720-4846-ace7-0ce88aa4ccd7
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
ChumpChange
ChumpChange 
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May 18th, 2024 at 9:21:31 AM permalink
This is the larger collection of 1.2K reviews on Trip Advisor for this casino near Utica, NY.
https://en.tripadvisor.com.hk/Attraction_Review-g48775-d116383-Reviews-Turning_Stone_Resort_Casino-Verona_New_York.html

I've been here rarely. Since COVID the table minimums are much higher so my getting by on a $200 buy-in on a $5 table is not possible, need a $500 buy-in on a $15 table or $1,000 buy-in on a $25 table. Slots are probably a different beast with the advent of getting 15 symbols for a Grand JP. The video BJ was only playable for about 15 minutes before I could cash-out at even, the rules are bad, IGT-wise. I've been trying to go to the satellite casinos Point Place and Yellow Brick Road where they have $5 or $10 craps at YBR (before 5pm it's $5 and half table) and $10 Spanish 21 at Point Place (sometimes). When I get my bankroll up, I can switch to $15 BJ or Spanish 21, but the table max is $500 at YBR and may only be $300 at PP.
At the local Del Lago casino it's almost all $25 BJ tables but for one $15 BJ table and one $25 Spanish 21 table and they are usually packed. There might be a second table of each on weekends. Their $25 tables have a $2,000 max and the high limit room BJ is $100 - $3,000. So I could run up a $5,000 buy-in from there. They have a $10 craps table and a $25 craps table during the week but on weekends they are both $15 tables. The two Baccarat tables are $50 and $100 minimum and are usually too packed to get a seat.
I think I'd have a more relaxed time at the TS satellite casinos, but it's quite a drive and bumps up against my car insurance driving limits.
Last edited by: ChumpChange on May 18, 2024
TigerWu
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May 19th, 2024 at 12:40:47 PM permalink
TripAdvisor comments are basically the equivalent of Yahoo or Youtube comments.
OKAY
OKAY
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May 31st, 2024 at 7:56:22 AM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

LOL...I love all these people crying about "rigged casinos," yet none of them ever submit their "proof" to the appropriate authorities.
link to original post


Because, IMHO, you'll never win such an argument. It's like disagreeing against an old family tradition that's been set in stone for decades and any secrets will always remain secret... ..wherever theirs gigantic flows of money, all governments, big corporations (like the casino industry), I highly doubt their isn't any corruption going on at some point ..or, lifetime. I'm pretty sure the ones at the top of the ladder, running the show, have been doing so long enough and they aren't going anywhere which means everyone knows everyone and someone knows who to see or bribe if and when shtf! With the amount of money involved and tribal aspect of it,...keeping the mouth shut is the norm.
Owwwgeeez! I just made myself the crazy person lmao.

Remember Play fair and responsible!

lol
odiousgambit
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May 31st, 2024 at 8:53:52 AM permalink
well, qualifying with such as "at some point" and indicating Indian casinos, not too crazy

which one is you?

the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
OKAY
OKAY
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odiousgambitjjjoooggg
May 31st, 2024 at 10:41:28 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

well, qualifying with such as "at some point" and indicating Indian casinos, not too crazy

which one is you?


link to original post


Hmmm......well umm I would have to say.... Whoever's older. They always win. Check back in 30 years though .
DRich
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May 31st, 2024 at 1:54:46 PM permalink
Quote: OKAY


Because, IMHO, you'll never win such an argument. It's like disagreeing against an old family tradition that's been set in stone for decades and any secrets will always remain secret... ..wherever theirs gigantic flows of money, all governments, big corporations (like the casino industry), I highly doubt their isn't any corruption going on at some point ..or, lifetime. I'm pretty sure the ones at the top of the ladder, running the show, have been doing so long enough and they aren't going anywhere which means everyone knows everyone and someone knows who to see or bribe if and when shtf! With the amount of money involved and tribal aspect of it,...keeping the mouth shut is the norm.
Owwwgeeez! I just made myself the crazy person lmao.

Remember Play fair and responsible!

lol



You will not win the argument because it is not true. i am not saying that there are one or two machines that aren't rigged, but 99.9% of the machines in regulated jurisdictions are not. How could I possibly know this? Because I am a computer programmer that has programmed lots of machines on casino floors and there is no mechanism available in them that would let them change them based on card inserted.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
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