What To Do With Locked Ticket
Poll
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15 members have voted
Quote: rxwineCome to think of it, Maybe Axelwolf will offer you 60% of the value.
We know DO wont got over 51%
Quote: rxwineCome to think of it, Maybe Axelwolf will offer you 60% of the value.
I’d hold out for 99.5%
Quote: darkozDrich
That is just totally wrong.
Nice imagination though
Yes, Bob does represent people who used other peoples players cards with the permission of those players.
No, the casino cannot deny the payout becauseit came from freeplay another persons card. When one casino tried that on me do you know what I did? I called gaming which forced them to pay me.
See, the law is on my side on this issue.
The handing of a players card for me to use is no different than if you handed me your credit card with permission to use it. Am I committing credit card fraud if you gave me permission to make a purchase?
Oh wait, you probably figure it is, lol.
I'm not arguing with you. I am just telling you the argument the casinos and District Attorney will use. The freeplay belongs to the casino until it is claimed by the person to whom they issued it. Next time I speak to Bob N. I will see if the D.A. has prosecuted any of these cases in Nevada yet.
Quote: AxelWolfIs this phone number of an individual agent who understands Advantage play enough to realize the difference between illegal activity and "fair play".?
If so, that's great news.
No, that is the general enforcement phone number. Most agents do not understand the intricacies, just like most police officers don't know the subtleties of the law. The Chief of the department is Karl Bennison and he is very smart and fair.
Yes, but they could mail the check and letter to a different name, not mine or Bruce, so everyone involved would be okay with this I'm sure =). That's my main goal is to create as many cracks as I can and hope someone slips in to one of them and this goes away quietly. While I'm realistic enough to think this won't happen, again in my eyes it's a free roll to try to let it happen. Give them the rope and see if they do it themselves...Quote: RigondeauxFirstly, nice to see you back!
So, if they mail you a check, I'd assume they could just mail a letter saying you are banned. However, I could see it slipping through the cracks because different people handle it.
This probably means nothing. But I did have to leave a casino quickly due to unwanted attention once and take a ticket with me. I'm pretty sure they were going to 86 me. I came back a couple weeks later. The ticket was not in GREAT shape, as it had been in my wallet for a couple weeks. However, I was surprised the machines wouldn't take it. I wasn't really sure if the ticket was flagged or the machines were picky. But to me, it should have been accepted. It wasn't torn or faded.
I had a buddy cash it at the cage and it went through with no problems. It was for about $250.
Obviously, I told him the situation and paid him and he was cool to deal with it.
Axel is a hustler ;-). Pretty sure he'd offer me 25% of face value for the ticket cuz of the implied "issues" and then he'd have his super secret network cash it in the background with no problems. He's probably slept with one of the cashiers... at every casino in the united states... just for an occasion like this.
p.s. I'm pretty sad that only 1 of you would go to the dance with me from the poll question =(... I clearly clicked that I would go with myself, so that's 1 of the 2 votes =(.
Quote: DRichI'm not arguing with you. I am just telling you the argument the casinos and District Attorney will use. The freeplay belongs to the casino until it is claimed by the person to whom they issued it. Next time I speak to Bob N. I will see if the D.A. has prosecuted any of these cases in Nevada yet.
That is not the argument any DA would use because that is not the law.
The DA argues the law.
The law is actually quite specific and this falls clearly under access device law.
The casino HAS argued that with me in the past
Once again, I then called the authorities on them. There was no waffling. The casinos were ordered to pay me MY MONEY in each and every case.
And no casino including ones that have caught me with multiple cards multiple times IN DISGUISE NO LESS has every even brought a single charge.
AND THEY STILL.HAD TO PAY ME.
So not sure why you keep insisting there is any wriggle room for a DA to get involved
Casinos always do really shady crap and skirt laws and gaming regulations. I'd say about 30%-40% are pretty fair and about 60%-70% try to do shady crap. Of the 60%-70% I'd say the decent majority own up and do what they're legally required when called on their BS, but there's plenty that still don't... which is why we have new lawsuits every year =P.Quote: ParadigmIs the check going to be made out to the same name that was on the player card? If so, you send it in certified mail/return receipt requested, you have proof they received the ticket and if you can have that individual call the casino if the check isn't sent, what really is the casino going to do? They have no idea what the individual that owns the player card looks like if they reviewed the tapes to see who was sitting at the machine...I imagine there is some price to pay from gaming if they fail to issue a check in the individual's name who's player card was used based on a mailed in ticket. No way they can get away with that...can they?
Maybe even do that a few times. Hell, they might even have locked the ticket BECAUSE they saw you leave without cashing it. Did you try to put the ticket in a different machine after the kiosk refused it? I don’t know if that would work or not, can it be communicated to all the individual machines that a ticket is locked?
I've had success using a line to the effect, "You had no problem taking my money, but when it comes time to pay out you won't do so, is that correct?" It cuts right to the integrity of their entire operation. Every time I've used that line, the low-level employee stops giving me their BS and starts trying to find the person who can address the problem.
I would be too paranoid to send someone up their on my behalf. A few times where I went to cash in a ticket I found ($1 - $2) and was told it was already cashed out (no idea why it wasn't forfeited). Could be trouble if they tried that with someone who couldn't provide much details about the ticket's history. Maybe go to the cashier together and have him show his ID, while you just watch.
Quote: Mission146I suppose at this casino in the future it might be a good idea to cash the ticket out, put it in a different machine without using a player’s card, take one spin and cash it out again.
Maybe even do that a few times. Hell, they might even have locked the ticket BECAUSE they saw you leave without cashing it. Did you try to put the ticket in a different machine after the kiosk refused it? I don’t know if that would work or not, can it be communicated to all the individual machines that a ticket is locked?
I dont know what casino Romes was at but it is definitely possible to lock the voucher against all use. It wont even be accepted by a slot machine
It has happened to me.
Quote: AxelWolfYou got out with out getting 86ed. Toss the ticket in the trash and move on.
Put it to some good use.
Hand it to someone you dont like as a make-up gift and let them deal with casino management
Meh, we did nothing wrong and I think I can get paid without EVER having them know I exist or get my information, and it's for a decent little chunk of change... I'll free roll my options.Quote: AxelWolfYou got out with out getting 86ed. Toss the ticket in the trash and move on.
Quote: RomesMeh, we did nothing wrong .
100% of those guys said the same thing.
YESQuote: SOOPOOMaybe I missed something.
Also Romes keeps saying "we did nothing wrong" - the moment he claimed to be someone else, he took a step in the wrong direction. Understood, he panicked, but most anything he said at that point "I was playing for someone else who had just stepped away briefly" might have been disputed IF they had the cameras turned on that particular area for long enough.
In any case, here he violated some casino rules against playing with someone else's player card, and essentially "transferring / using someone else's comps" - all the casinos have rules against that. It wasn't just a flat win against cash he won playing against some kind of promotion / comps and therein would be the argument the casinos would use to not pay him - that to even begin to play or win he had to have essentially transferred someone else's free play to himself. Darkov also doesn't put a nickel into any machine he just plays with free play which results in cashouts, and if the casinos used their heads they would block his collecting along these same lines. If I were the casino general counsel this is how I'd put a stop to all this.
Now Darkov comes in and says "I am using someone else's card with his permission" - I'd say fine, but any comps or free play that were on that card are voided the moment anyone else tries to use it, for any purposes, included for winning.
Quote: AxelWolf
100% of those guys said the same thing.
And many of them were not lying.
But pretty certain 100% of them are not in jail for using another person casino card with their permission
Quote: MDawgLot of silly suggestions above such as "buy a fake ID" - merely possessing such a thing let alone presenting it for any purpose is illegal.
Also Romes keeps saying "we did nothing wrong" - the moment he claimed to be someone else, he took a step in the wrong direction. Understood, he panicked, but most anything he said at that point "I was playing for someone else" might have been disputed IF they had the cameras turned on that particular area for long enough.
In any case, here he violated some casino rules against playing with someone else's player card, and essentially "transferring / using someone else's comps" - all the casinos have rules against that. It wasn't just a flat win against cash he won playing against some kind of promotion / comps and therein would be the argument the casinos would use to not pay him - that to even begin to play or win he had to have essentially transferred someone else's free play to himself. Darkov also doesn't put a nickel into any machine he just plays with free play which results in cashouts, and if the casinos used their heads they would block his collecting along these same lines. If I were the casino general counsel this is how I'd put a stop to all this.
1) wrong vs legal. Perhaps there is the difference
What Romes means is he did nothing illegal and therefore nothing wrong under the law. Which is all we care about. People fighting for morals or breaking house rules can go suck an egg.
We win in court. You dont.
2) MDawg, you dont understand what I do. I guarantee I dont take freeplay without spending a nickel. I only wish I could affect that.
If there is anyplace where the statement, "nothing comes for free" is true, it pertains to what I do.
EDIT: And I am not Russian. Its not Darkov lol
Anyway I gotta get downstairs and put in some more play to qualify for winning this Bacc. tournament. All these casinos have hoops they put in front of us, one way or another. I don't like it anymore than you do.
Quote: MDawgI am not on the casino's side. Just saying that even if you mix your cash with someone else's comps the argument could be made that you're using/transferring someone else's comps (free play, whatever) to get to your ultimate win. And that's the argument to be made to put a stop to all this. Because you know that all the casinos have rules in place about how comps/free play are not transferable or usable by anyone else.
Anyway I gotta get downstairs and put in some more play to qualify for winning this Bacc. tournament. All these casinos have hoops they put in front of us, one way or another. I don't like it anymore than you do.
That argument they use already
They put a stop to.it all the time by reneging on offers and shutting off cards.
But legally thats all their recourse. And I suppose 86'ing me if they wish. But that doesn't stop me either. I just send in my crew
I've shown ID at the cage several times when cashing out slot tickets that are above, at, or near hand pay amounts. I've received no blowback. Im still welcome in those casinos. The casino has even had me waiting at the cage for 10+ minutes while they find a manager to verify and authorize the pay out. This has happened with my personal card and on a friend's card. My last OSN check was about a month ago, and I'm not in there.
There is clearly more to the story than what's in the thread... Because waiting days to cash a large ticket is not something a normal gambler does. A normal gambler cashes big tickets before they leave, asks for the money in all $1 bills, and informs the cashier that it will be raining at the gentleman's club in 25 minutes.
I've never had a machine tell me a ticket was locked. I have had machines tell me a ticket cannot be cashed here and must be taken to the cashier. That is the result of size and not a managers action. Sometimes they want ID and sometimes they don't.
The only thing I would check is whether ALL the machines will refuse the ticket. I.e. some payoff machines might have different caps... And whether the ticket can still be played in a slot. That would be useful information. If another slot machine will take the ticket, I wouldn't sweat it.
The disclaimer worth adding is that I'm an amateur, not a pro... So if I get the boot, I still eat.
Side note: Almost all the first hand ID horror stories I've heard are from table game and video poker players. Slot players tend to get a lot of room. I'd be more worried if I was asked for ID while playing the machine than I would be when cashing out... If anyone is willing to share a slot ID horror story, I'd love to hear from you.
Quote: Zcore13
...then you take the loss. Part of the game.
ZCore13
Boo!
1) There was zero panic at all. I go by many names, SUCH AS ROMES. If someone says "who are you" and I say "Romes" am I taking a step in the wrong direction? He didn't even say "what's your name" he said "who are you" so I can say anything I go by, if you want to split silly hairs.Quote: MDawg...Also Romes keeps saying "we did nothing wrong" - the moment he claimed to be someone else, he took a step in the wrong direction...
2) Playing on another persons card is not against the casino rules, of any casino I've ever been in in my entire life. Husbands and wives play on the same card, and are encouraged too, right? Where's the rule that says you have to be married? Hint: There isn't one. You can't have an unwritten rule and expect to be enforced. I used no one else's comps. Again, NOTHING AT ALL, EVEN TECHNICALLY, was done wrong.
Yeah, there's literally case law setting precedent that this is okay... and being a professional we've had experience with gaming and talked to them about it to confirm in the states we play in. So please don't tell me what I'm doing wrong when you clearly don't know what's right and wrong.Quote: MDawgNow Darkov comes in and says "I am using someone else's card with his permission" - I'd say fine, but any comps or free play that were on that card are voided the moment anyone else tries to use it, for any purposes, included for winning.
ALL of the major casinos have rules that comps are non transferable and that no one else may use your player card.
EXample:
https://www.caesars.com/myrewards/caesars-rewards-rules-regs
4. The benefits of the Program are intended and solely for the use of the person listed on the account (“Member”).
5. A Member may not allow any other person to use his or her Caesars Rewards card or access his or her account. Caesars Rewards cards are non-transferable.
https://www.mgmresorts.com/en/mlife-rewards-program/program-rules.html
7. Except as permitted by these Terms and Conditions, a member may not transfer, sell, purchase, trade or barter an M life Rewards Card, M life Rewards account, points, complimentaries (“comps”), Express Comps, Tier Credits or any membership benefit to another individual. Violators of this rule are subject to termination of M life Rewards Program membership and forfeiture of rewards including, but not limited to, accumulated points, Express Comps, Tier Credits and/or benefits, and may be liable for damages and litigation costs, including any Program attorneys’ fees incurred in enforcing this rule.
14. An M life Rewards member may not accrue M life Rewards loyalty balances including, but not limited to, Tier Credits, Express Comps, and points and/or “comps” or any other membership benefits if his/her M life Rewards Card is used by another individual.
Maybe he is playing at some two bit casino that doesn't have these same types of rules, but I doubt it.
His mentioning "case law" is odd as these types of cases don't go all the way to appellate courts, they are stopped cold with the terms and conditions of the casinos in lower courts (if they ever go to court at all), or with gaming.
If he has something to say, at least he could back it up by giving us the terms and conditions of the exact casino he played at, and give us the cites for the appellate cases that he claims apply to the casino he was at. That would be something, otherwise, nothing he has said so far is of any relevance.
Again, I am not on the side of the casino, but I am on the side of Reality, not some free wheeling Marx Brothers approach.
Quote: MDawgI'm in the middle of a long Vegas trip, winning all week so far, so not going to argue with Romes too much as I haven't the time, but:
ALL of the major casinos have rules that comps are non transferable and that no one else may use your player card.
EXample:
https://www.caesars.com/myrewards/caesars-rewards-rules-regs
4. The benefits of the Program are intended and solely for the use of the person listed on the account (“Member”).
5. A Member may not allow any other person to use his or her Caesars Rewards card or access his or her account. Caesars Rewards cards are non-transferable.
https://www.mgmresorts.com/en/mlife-rewards-program/program-rules.html
7. Except as permitted by these Terms and Conditions, a member may not transfer, sell, purchase, trade or barter an M life Rewards Card, M life Rewards account, points, complimentaries (“comps”), Express Comps, Tier Credits or any membership benefit to another individual. Violators of this rule are subject to termination of M life Rewards Program membership and forfeiture of rewards including, but not limited to, accumulated points, Express Comps, Tier Credits and/or benefits, and may be liable for damages and litigation costs, including any Program attorneys’ fees incurred in enforcing this rule.
14. An M life Rewards member may not accrue M life Rewards loyalty balances including, but not limited to, Tier Credits, Express Comps, and points and/or “comps” or any other membership benefits if his/her M life Rewards Card is used by another individual.
Maybe he is playing at some two bit casino that doesn't have these same types of rules, but I doubt it.
His mentioning "case law" is odd as these types of cases don't go all the way to appellate courts, they are stopped cold with the terms and conditions of the casinos in lower courts (if they ever go to court at all), or with gaming.
If he has something to say, at least he could back it up by giving us the terms and conditions of the exact casino he played at, and give us the cites for the appellate cases that he claims apply to the casino he was at. That would be something, otherwise, nothing he has said so far is of any relevance.
Again, I am not on the side of the casino, but I am on the side of Reality, not some free wheeling Marx Brothers approach.
While I have seen cssinos allow husband and wife swapping of cards for the most it IS against house rule.
It is spelled out in most literature.
Like entering a club without proper attire the only thing that you are doing is violating house rules. You can't get arrested for not wearing proper attire in a club and you cant get arrested for using other players cards including use of freeplay with players permission
Mdawg, what case law are you referring to. Never heard of lower courts getting involved since there is no criminality here. Are you referring to civil litigation?
When you say "locked out" are you just talking about a ticket that the amount is higher than the TITO machine will accept? If so, that's really not a locked out ticket.Quote: rxwineIt just occurred to me that I've been locked out on tickets, but still no one ever asked for ID to cash them. Well over a $1000 dollars several times.
I was under the impression that Romes ticket was locked out due to suspicious activity.
For example the barcode could simply be damaged or unreadable.
But an AP should use his judgment in a scenario like this. Better safe than sorry.
It will be nothing but self-recriminations if Romes shrugs off his paranoia, goes to the cashier and is told a higher up wants to speak with him all the while security guards are getting into position from every side about 35 feet away (yes thats how they do it. This sneaking into position is so obvious its hilarious--unless you are waiting for the pounce. Then its just nerve wracking
Quote: AxelWolfWhen you say "locked out" are you just talking about a ticket that the amount is higher than the TITO machine will accept? If so, that's really not a locked out ticket.
I was under the impression that Romes ticket was locked out due to suspicious activity.
Do they ever say anything than "Please see cashier" on the little reject screen?
Maybe his said, "We gonna get ya sucker".
Quote: darkoz
while security guards are getting into position from every side about 35 feet away (yes thats how they do it. This sneaking into position is so obvious its hilarious--unless you are waiting for the pounce. Then its just nerve wracking
And then Don Rickles tells the girl to send over a bottle of champagne.
I can confirm this ticket is locked because of the play/machine I was on, not by accident, nor by amount over $1200 which "some" casinos make you take those tickets to the cage to cash for CTR considerations.Quote: onenickelmiracleThe question is whether it's intentional or not even if someone spoke to you. Machines wind up with bad tickets, I don't think it's usually anything.
Probably from staying hydrated and hitting and running, right? What would I know about AP'ing and the laws surrounding it...Quote: MDawgI'm in the middle of a long Vegas trip, winning all week so far, so not going to argue with Romes too much as I haven't the time, but;
Romes implied that the ticket was greater than $500 and less than $1200.Quote: prozemaWhen I wrote my prior message, I thought we were talking about a $3000 ticket. If it were a $300 ticket, that is a lot more complex.... Scary even.
Quote: PuckerbuttRomes implied that the ticket was greater than $500 and less than $1200.
Last week I was visiting a nearby area that will remain nameless and the casino demanded ID to cash a ticket for right at $1000. I gave them my ID, they scanned it and gave me money... I didn't think twice because it was near a hand pay amount. Im 100% certain the card in play was not in my name.
$500 is kind of marginal in that situation because I don't know the cash out machines well in that area.
In one casino local to me, all the machines but one will send you to the cage for $500... $20s are the biggest bill they pay... It's a super classy joint... You should see how they sweat blackjack there. Funny enough, the one machine that does cash out big tickets will spit out $1500 which is the friendliest cash out machine I'm aware of. They put $100s in that machine so I'm thinking it's not an accident.
On the other side of the equation, I just ran across a cash out machine recently that does not issue coins. It gave me all the paper money and it sent me to the cage for 22 cents. I thought that was a pretty slick tactic.
I had to recheck and make sure I wasn't in the miscellaneous discussion thread.Quote: ChumpChangeI keep reading about this one brand of reloadable credit card that you can take to an ATM and get up to $700 a day out of it. Problem is, if the ATM runs out of money or shortchanges you, you have to call the crooks in India and they lock your card and maybe even steal all the funds remaining on the card. There's 10's of thousands of complaints about it on the internet, and nothing is being done except Washington DC is relaxing laws protecting people from this kind of abuse.
Quote: Romes
2) Playing on another persons card is not against the casino rules, of any casino I've ever been in in my entire life.
Romes, isn't this flat out wrong? MDawg posted a few links that matched my recollection. Unless you are saying "playing on a another person's card is against the rules of the players card program, but not against the casino's rules?" Like they are two separate entities?
Quote: darkozHere is my advice:
The issue clearly is he was using someone else players card otherwise he could just show ID (he said this was a slot play and he gave a name that wasnt his.)
Why would they bother to tip off the player with a question, instead of just locking the ticket and catching the person by surprise at the cashier?
Quote: rxwineWhy would they bother to tip off the player with a question, instead of just locking the ticket and catching the person by surprise at the cashier?
Immediate walk to the backroom if he answers wrong.
Quote: Romes
2) Playing on another persons card is not against the casino rules, of any casino I've ever been in in my entire life.
I think you are clearly wrong on this. Most strip casinos have rules against this. As Darzoz said it is not illegal just against the rules.`
Quote: DRichI think you are clearly wrong on this. Most strip casinos have rules against this. As Darzoz said it is not illegal just against the rules.`
I'm pretty sure literally every players club set of rules I have ever fully read, and we're talking casinos outside of Vegas.
Quote: Mission146I'm pretty sure literally every players club set of rules I have ever fully read, and we're talking casinos outside of Vegas.
Please address my post a few back. I think he may be considering the players club and the actual casino separate entities for this discussion.
Quote: SOOPOOPlease address my post a few back. I think he may be considering the players club and the actual casino separate entities for this discussion.
That’s a good point.
I think, particularly in Atlantic City where casinos are considered semi-public (not saying that’s where Romes was playing, I have no idea), that you could easily be 86’d from the players club but not the casino as a whole.
Quote: SOOPOOPlease address my post a few back. I think he may be considering the players club and the actual casino separate entities for this discussion.
If he is, I have no idea how that is possible. Does that make the table games, slot floor, bingo (if any), poker room, high-limit room, security department, management, racing (if any) and sportsbook (if any) amongst others all separate entities? Generally, the only places in the casino that would qualify as separate entities are such that the actual business is owned by someone else. Some of the food locations lease the space in some casinos, shops, theaters, maybe some spas and bars.
Maybe some other places here and there, but those are the main types I could think of.
