Class 3 VLT

https://professorslots.com/new-york-slot-machine-casino-gambling/

Archived https://web.archive.org/web/20190821023456/https://professorslots.com/new-york-slot-machine-casino-gambling/

Hello mention of a Class 3 Video Lottery Terminal

"

Tribal casinos in the state of New York had only Class II bingo halls until 1993. That year, a successfully negotiated state-tribal compact was approved for Class III Vegas-style gaming by the federally-recognized St. Regis Mohawk Tribe.

Per such tribal-state compacts, slot machines at all Class III tribal casinos are video lottery terminals (VLTs) controlled by the New York State Lottery. While these electronic games appear as typical video slot machines, the results of a bet are instead determined by the central lottery system.

At non-tribal casinos, the result of a bet on a slot machine is not determined by the state lottery server, but instead by a microchip in the machine itself or by a central computer located in the casino.

"

Quote: heatmap

https://professorslots.com/new-york-slot-machine-casino-gambling/

Archived https://web.archive.org/web/20190821023456/https://professorslots.com/new-york-slot-machine-casino-gambling/

Hello mention of a Class 3 Video Lottery Terminal

"

Tribal casinos in the state of New York had only Class II bingo halls until 1993. That year, a successfully negotiated state-tribal compact was approved for Class III Vegas-style gaming by the federally-recognized St. Regis Mohawk Tribe.

Per such tribal-state compacts, slot machines at all Class III tribal casinos are video lottery terminals (VLTs) controlled by the New York State Lottery. While these electronic games appear as typical video slot machines, the results of a bet are instead determined by the central lottery system.

At non-tribal casinos, the result of a bet on a slot machine is not determined by the state lottery server, but instead by a microchip in the machine itself or by a central computer located in the casino.

"

I see where you quoted from the article.

The article is wrong

The wagers do go thru the central computer for VLT lottery based non-tribal racinos.

I believe this to be true for the vegas style casinos but I am not certain. So dont hold me to that. Would have to do the research

Quote: darkoz

I see where you quoted from the article.

The article is wrong

The wagers do go thru the central computer for VLT lottery based non-tribal racinos.

I believe this to be true for the vegas style casinos but I am not certain. So dont hold me to that. Would have to do the research

no research needed i had that part in my first quote

BUTTTTT

check this trail out i found this company

http://www.southlandgaming.com/subsidiary-companies#the-parrot-club

through

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_lottery_terminal

at the bottom of the page in the references and they have a quote on their page http://www.southlandgaming.com/subsidiary-companies#the-parrot-club

"

Subsidiary Companies
The Parrot Club in the Virgin Islands
The Parrot Club

Quote:

The Parrot Club, as a branded entertainment venue, was opened in 2008 to provide a facility to host entertainment and video lottery gaming on St John in the U.S. Virgin Islands.

Wharfside Village (Cruz Bay)
St. John, US Virgin Islands
(340) 715-2582
www.parrotclubvi.com

"

which goes to https://www.parrotclubvi.com/

and has pictures that look like this



and



and


and NONE of any of those machine look ANY different than a regular casino slots and oh look they have a roulette there as well odd

I guess I had to sneak an ugly girl in on the last picture.

Quote: heatmap

no research needed i had that part in my first quote

BUTTTTT

check this trail out i found this company

http://www.southlandgaming.com/subsidiary-companies#the-parrot-club

through

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_lottery_terminal

at the bottom of the page in the references and they have a quote on their page http://www.southlandgaming.com/subsidiary-companies#the-parrot-club

"

Subsidiary Companies
The Parrot Club in the Virgin Islands
The Parrot Club


Wharfside Village (Cruz Bay)
St. John, US Virgin Islands
(340) 715-2582
www.parrotclubvi.com

"

which goes to https://www.parrotclubvi.com/

and has pictures that look like this



and



and


and NONE of any of those machine look ANY different than a regular casino slots and oh look they have a roulette there as well odd

VLTs can still behave exactly like Vegas slots. It all depends on the jurisdiction and its laws.

For example, Ohio racinos and Maryland casinos are VLTs that play just like Vegas. These places themselves are regulated by the state lottery commission, hence them being called VLTs instead of slot machines.

Quote: tringlomane

VLTs can still behave exactly like Vegas slots. It all depends on the jurisdiction and its laws.

For example, Ohio racinos and Maryland casinos are VLTs that play just like Vegas. These places themselves are regulated by the state lottery commission, hence them being called VLTs instead of slot machines.

Why be confusing though why? Why can’t we have one word with one definition for a slot machine?

Edit to let everyone know I have a friend who was a slot manager at sands and I swore up and down that they had class 3 vlt and have not been able to find any reference about class 3 vlt until yesterday so that’s why I am doing this stuff

Edit for length and addition

And what is to say that ALL slot machines are NOT just VLTs? if they are the same thing... who CARES right?

My understanding has been that any machine regulated by the lottery commission would be a considered VLT.

Back in the 1990's and early 2000's when I was programming video poker games for New York, they were centrally determined games. You could tell because they all had a gimmick where you could still win even if the cards did not match the paytable. Probably the most common was a match card.

Quote: DRich

My understanding has been that any machine regulated by the lottery commission would be a considered VLT.

Back in the 1990's and early 2000's when I was programming video poker games for New York, they were centrally determined games. You could tell because they all had a gimmick where you could still win even if the cards did not match the paytable. Probably the most common was a match card.

And is it true that there is a limited pool of wins when it comes to central determination systems?

Quote: heatmap

And is it true that there is a limited pool of wins when it comes to central determination systems?

Yes, picture a large physical drum with lots of pieces of paper inside. You draw a piece of paper out and whatever it says on it is how much you won. The majority are zero but the rest have varying amounts written on them. If you completely emptied it and totaled them up you would come up with a payback of 90% for an example. The way the central determination system worked was when you pressed the spin button the computer would draw a ticket out of the drum. Whatever amount was on that ticket is what you win and the slot machine graphically represents that win amount.

We used to use the same drum until half of the tickets were drawn and then start a new drum.

Quote: DRich

Yes, picture a large physical drum with lots of pieces of paper inside. You draw a piece of paper out and whatever it says on it is how much you won. The majority are zero but the rest have varying amounts written on them. If you completely emptied it and totaled them up you would come up with a payback of 90% for an example. The way the central determination system worked was when you pressed the spin button the computer would draw a ticket out of the drum. Whatever amount was on that ticket is what you win and the slot machine graphically represents that win amount.

We used to use the same drum until half of the tickets were drawn and then start a new drum.

I think this is my issue with this whole thing. It doesnt seem random at all to me. What is the differentiating factor of class ii and class iii VLT... the underlying "game"? class ii is bingo and class iii is... a RNG?

Quote: heatmap

I think this is my issue with this whole thing. It doesnt seem random at all to me. What is the differentiating factor of class ii and class iii VLT... the underlying "game"? class ii is bingo and class iii is... a RNG?

They all are still RNG. The difference is just where the RNG is. In Class II and Central Determination the RNG is at the server. In traditional Class III the RNG is at the slot machine,

So what we are at is that there are machines that look like slot machines, but are called video lottery terminals. These video lottery terminals are technically preprogrammed for a specific amount of wins within a specified total amount of plays. These can be class 2 or class 3, which are determined by the placement of the RNG.

Lets say as of this point we focus on class 3 VLT.

are "result", aka the actual order and symbols generated utilizing a RNG? or is the RNG used for one single number correlating to an index of a "pool"

and from what i understand about the central determination is that IF a number that is winning is generated and its not in the pool of winners, they can discard the result and generate a new one until it is a valid result within the pool?

Years ago I claimed to be able to predict when bonus rounds were coming.

I primarily played vlt at the time. As I branched out to other markets this ability was diminished if not non-existent.

With my current knowledge of how VLT works and my millions of slot pulls at VLT I think that is why I am able to predict with more accuracy at the VLT.

I still dont believe it can overcome house edge and never claimed that. But people on here were real angry at my assertions

To put it another way, VLTs are cyclical due to their nature. It is possible to see when you are in a cycle just based on prior experience. Enough for me to decide when to quit a vlt or keep going

(The whole seat switching notion was derided here too but again I am referring to vlt controlled by a central server using that drum notion described above)

Quote: heatmap

Lets say as of this point we focus on class 3 VLT.

are "result", aka the actual order and symbols generated utilizing a RNG? or is the RNG used for one single number correlating to an index of a "pool"

and from what i understand about the central determination is that IF a number that is winning is generated and its not in the pool of winners, they can discard the result and generate a new one until it is a valid result within the pool?

Understand that Class III VLT can be centrally determined or not. Again, the VLT designation is just meant to designate that the lottery commission is in charge of the machines.

I have never seen a central determination system where a selected outcome is thrown away. The ones I have worked with only have the possible winning amounts in the drum.

Quote: DRich

Understand that Class III VLT can be centrally determined or not. Again, the VLT designation is just meant to designate that the lottery commission is in charge of the machines.

I have never seen a central determination system where a selected outcome is thrown away. The ones I have worked with only have the possible winning amounts in the drum.

what happens when a machine generates a number or result that is not within the "drum" of results, or if that question is not possible to answer then how do you limit the outcomes of the machine to generate only the specified types of results?

If the machine is a class 3 and it has a RNG, but is still centrally determined by the lottery commission or whoever, then why do they need both RNG in machine and centrally determined results?

Quote: heatmap

what happens when a machine generates a number or result that is not within the "drum" of results, or if that question is not possible to answer then how do you limit the outcomes of the machine to generate only the specified types of results?

If the machine is a class 3 and it has a RNG, but is still centrally determined by the lottery commission or whoever, then why do they need both RNG in machine and centrally determined results?

The systems I worked on we only put winning values in the drum that correspond to the paytable.

If a slot machine had possible payouts of 0, 1, 2, 5, 10, 25, 75, 150, and 1000 then only those numbers would be in the drum.

As far as two RNG's, most manufacturers try to make machines that will work in multiple jurisdictions. There would be an option in the software to say use central determination or local RNG. No point in making two separate machines when you can just produce one with a software option to say which to use,

Quote: DRich

The systems I worked on we only put winning values in the drum that correspond to the paytable.

If a slot machine had possible payouts of 0, 1, 2, 5, 10, 25, 75, 150, and 1000 then only those numbers would be in the drum.

As far as two RNG's, most manufacturers try to make machines that will work in multiple jurisdictions. There would be an option in the software to say use central determination or local RNG. No point in making two separate machines when you can just produce one with a software option to say which to use,

All of this is making sense thank you so much. So in PA we have been getting these things called "PA Skill" which claim to be skill slots, yet there is also some confusion on my part about why they call them VLTs sometimes?

I know this thread is over a year old but I thought I would chime in and give my two cents. PA slots are the same as WV slots where I live. They are Class III VLT's that are not centrally determined. The reason they are called VLT's is because the State Lottery Commission is in charge of gaming and slots. However, they are connected to a central server but only for accounting and financial reporting. I guess the question you have to ask yourself is how much you trust the "only for accounting and financial reporting". A few months ago I was playing a slot at Wheeling Island Casino and it was hitting pretty good when all of a sudden it went off line. A message came across the machine asking the technician to call Charleston, which is where the WV Gaming board is headquartered. The slot tech came over and apologized and said he had to call Charleston and have them reset the machine and it would be about 5 minutes. I moved on to another slot and didn't look back.....lol.

Quote: darkoz

Years ago I claimed to be able to predict when bonus rounds were coming.

I primarily played vlt at the time. As I branched out to other markets this ability was diminished if not non-existent.

With my current knowledge of how VLT works and my millions of slot pulls at VLT I think that is why I am able to predict with more accuracy at the VLT.

I still don't believe it can overcome house edge and never claimed that. But people on here were real angry at my assertions

To put it another way, VLTs are cyclical due to their nature. It is possible to see when you are in a cycle just based on prior experience. Enough for me to decide when to quit a vlt or keep going

(The whole seat switching notion was derided here too but again I am referring to vlt controlled by a central server using that drum notion described above)

Nobody was angry, it just didn't/ doesn't make any sense. IF, you can predict when a bonus round is coming (AND YOU CAN'T since it still uses a RNG, unless it's some special tpe of machine with a gimmick like Scarabs) there's an opportunity to make a boatload of money even if you haven't figured out how to exploit it.

Re-read your original statement and the following conversation. You backtracked somewhat and left it ambiguous, but it was obvious what you were trying to have us think until you were questioned(this is more "I make 20k a week" BS). It's simple to prove, just tell us the name of the machines and go from there. You won't/can't because it would be debunkable at that point. You should be able to tell us exactly why it's not explotable. It's confermation bias. " Enough for me to decide when to quit a vlt or keep going" How do you know what would have happened if you would have kept going if you quit?

Quote: AxelWolf

Nobody was angry, it just didn't/ doesn't make any sense. IF, you can predict when a bonus round is coming (AND YOU CAN'T since it still uses a RNG, unless it's some special tpe of machine with a gimmick like Scarabs) there's an opportunity to make a boatload of money even if you haven't figured out how to exploit it.

Re-read your original statement and the following conversation. You backtracked somewhat and left it ambiguous, but it was obvious what you were trying to have us think until you were questioned(this is more "I make 20k a week" BS). It's simple to prove, just tell us the name of the machines and go from there. You won't/can't because it would be debunkable at that point. You should be able to tell us exactly why it's not explotable. It's confermation bias. " Enough for me to decide when to quit a vlt or keep going" How do you know what would have happened if you would have kept going if you quit?

Wait!

You think I was claiming to know THE VERY NEXT SPIN a bonus was coming like the 9th spin of Scarab?

I never said diddly about being able to predict THE VERY NEXT SPIN

And when I say cycles it's definitely not to within EXACTLY TEN SPINS PER SCARAB.

Stop extrapolating things people are not saying. For example when I say I make $20,000 a week (going on twelve weeks now BTW) that I mean all 52 weeks of the year. If I made a million a year I would just say so.

Again, your extrapolation is what is making you unable to comprehend my claims.

Interestingly, you ignore what doesn't suit you. I said my bonus prediction is based on millions of spins at vlt's. You claim you can debunk that? You really are going to fly to NYC and play millions of spins to debunk something that doesn't best the house edge?

I am going to a bit of extrapolation on you now.

I make more money than you and you just can't bear the fact some guy with less than a decade of experience can do it.

Am I correct? Or did I extrapolate too much (see how that works)

Quote: playr4reel

I know this thread is over a year old but I thought I would chime in and give my two cents. PA slots are the same as WV slots where I live. They are Class III VLT's that are not centrally determined. The reason they are called VLT's is because the State Lottery Commission is in charge of gaming and slots. However, they are connected to a central server but only for accounting and financial reporting. I guess the question you have to ask yourself is how much you trust the "only for accounting and financial reporting". A few months ago I was playing a slot at Wheeling Island Casino and it was hitting pretty good when all of a sudden it went off line. A message came across the machine asking the technician to call Charleston, which is where the WV Gaming board is headquartered. The slot tech came over and apologized and said he had to call Charleston and have them reset the machine and it would be about 5 minutes. I moved on to another slot and didn't look back.....lol.

I'm probably wrong on this, but I thought WV at one time had a mix of class ll and class lll machines? And the class ll machines were of the bingo type, not set up to class lll standards.

I have seen the same message call Charleston. Makes you wonder huh?

Quote: heatmap

All of this is making sense thank you so much. So in PA we have been getting these things called "PA Skill" which claim to be skill slots, yet there is also some confusion on my part about why they call them VLTs sometimes?

I don't know who is calling them that, but if there's one entity that hates PA Skill Games, it's the Pennsylvania Lottery Commission.

Quote: darkoz

Wait!

You think I was claiming to know THE VERY NEXT SPIN a bonus was coming like the 9th spin of Scarab?

I never said diddly about being able to predict THE VERY NEXT SPIN

And when I say cycles it's definitely not to within EXACTLY TEN SPINS PER SCARAB.

Stop extrapolating things people are not saying. For example when I say I make $20,000 a week (going on twelve weeks now BTW) that I mean all 52 weeks of the year. If I made a million a year I would just say so.

Again, your extrapolation is what is making you unable to comprehend my claims.

Interestingly, you ignore what doesn't suit you. I said my bonus prediction is based on millions of spins at vlt's. You claim you can debunk that? You really are going to fly to NYC and play millions of spins to debunk something that doesn't best the house edge?

I am going to a bit of extrapolation on you now.

I make more money than you and you just can't bear the fact some guy with less than a decade of experience can do it.

Am I correct? Or did I extrapolate too much (see how that works)

I know youn never claimed you could predict the next spin, I was using that as an example of a game of how it would be possible, and to say something along those lines wouldn't count. Your probably "predicting" something with a low frequency and it seems as if your "prediction" came true since it's unlikely to go more than x amount of spins. Just name what machines and it can be confirmed or debunked with facts based on how the machines and system is designed. Perhaps they are designed in such a way where they are predictable via some hidden banking system, my main argument is... if that's the case, they are explotable. I supose if you're 50 spinns off on a 100 spin cycle it may not be explotable or if the bonus round pay out is super low and your off by a significant amount compared to that amount, however, that doesn't seem to be the case since it's valuable enough to enough for you to decide when to quit or keep going"

I had a senario at a well known online casino where I was certain "I knew when to play and when to quit" for approximately year on slots. I can't say exactly how many spins but I estmated in the neighborhood of a million. I wasn't predicting when the bonus round would come up but predictimating the amounts of the bonus and hot cycles. I never hit for more than 5k and never bet more than $5 ussully $1/$2 most of my good hits were under $500 however over that many spins I won a significant amount (no guessing like people oftentimes times do since the records show deposits and withdrawals IIRC I made few small deposit of less than $500) so its higly unlikely it was luck. I couldn't describe exactly how one could duplicate or why it was working, it was just something that I felt as I was playing. I have my theories that I won't get into, but im convicted it has something to do with internal banking and non randomness. Whatever the case, even if I was fooling myself something that went through my head frequently it didn't matter since I had an advantage via bonuses even if I was wrong but I shouldn't have made so much over my EV.

I certainly don't make a 20k a week most weeks like you praciccly claimed on another forum. I wouldn't trade more money to live in NYC and not have a license/car or own my own place. Whatever money I could make but don't make certainly wouldn't be because of lack or knowledge it would be lack of willingness and because I enjoy being lazy doing what I like doing IE spreading too much time at home.

Quote: Mission146

I don't know who is calling them that, but if there's one entity that hates PA Skill Games, it's the Pennsylvania Lottery Commission.

thats the logo on some of them

I don't mind discussing it. Like I said it's not an AP situation.

Here it is.

Mostly any game with bonus rounds it works on primarily on NYS VLT. But the easiest ones to see it on are Stinkin Rich (with the Keys to Riches bonus) and especially Bullseye.

I'm not certain Bullseye is actual name. It comes in different flavors. Basically when you get three 🎯 they are placed top of screen and you get 12 free spins to accumulate more 🎯. You need one more to make the fifth reel wild for the remainder of your spins.

Accumulate four more 🎯 to make the fourth reel wild. Usually you just make the fourth or even third reel wild on the final worthless spin. (One time I did manage to get 2nd through 5th reels wild. Very rare)

I do a ten/twenty count.

AFTER A BONUS ROUND another one will hit within ten spins. Could be very next one or tenth spin so you can't simply adjust your wager to minimum and go back high on the tenth spin cause you could trigger the bonus at the minimum.

IF you fail to trigger another bonus but you see a few tease spins (2 🎯 but fail to get the 3rd) then good chance it will trigger by the twentieth spin (hence my ten/twenty count)

If after twenty spins no bonus triggers again then those machines could easily go for a thousand spins with no bonus round. I never sat there and added them up but I always button mash if I can and I have seen those machines take over an hour to trigger a bonus again.

However when they are in trigger cycle you can easily have bonuses seven or eight times close together and sometimes even more.

It's good for turning over Freeplay since the bonuses are where the turnover occurs (NY freeplay is disallowed on VP or VBJ at least at the places I am familiar with.)

Fact:. Bonus payout is different in other states.

For example I play at $10 a spin on Stinking Rich. In NYS the bonus pays very rarely above $600 (jackpot limit is $600 in NYS)

Meanwhile in PA, and NJ same bonus, same wager easily goes to $1000 and many times it goes over the $1200 jackpot.

Also, NYS is high side 92%. Weigh that with bonuses paying less to avoid W2G threshold and you see how bonus frequency may be affected to achieve the mandated return.

So if you want to come to NY to try it out go right ahead.

Quote: heatmap

thats the logo on some of them

I believe it, but you’ll not have to Google long or hard to see the PA Lottery’s opinion of the games. They’re one of the few entities to call them outright illegal and lament what they perceive as revenues that might otherwise go to 49.9%-70% RTP Lottery tickets as being lost to them.

(I might have added the percentages part)

Quote: Mission146

I believe it, but you’ll not have to Google long or hard to see the PA Lottery’s opinion of the games. They’re one of the few entities to call them outright illegal and lament what they perceive as revenues that might otherwise go to 49.9%-70% RTP Lottery tickets as being lost to them.

(I might have added the percentages part)

comes from this (apparently they are legal as of jan 24 according to this articles title... (title lol))

https://www.northcentralpa.com/news/pa-commonwealth-court-says-pace-o-matic-skill-games-are-legal/article_f79699de-3e10-11ea-b464-2f8c6043a2b6.html#:~:text=Games%20of%20skill%20give%20players,as%20games%20of%20predominant%20skill.

I agree that they are at least, "Not illegal," at this juncture. I'm just saying that they're definitely not through the Lottery Commission. The matter is made all the more confusing by the fact that different state representatives/agencies have all had different things to say on the matter.

I also know that (told to me on a different forum) one place was shut down and had its machines confiscated as being illegal gambling. Of course, they advertised themselves as a casino on the exterior signage...so play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I also don't know how many, if any, of the games were POM's.

I've written a few articles on this and am currently writing one about my experience being 86'ed from two different places for playing the, "Games of Skill," skillfully, so you might be interested in those. As you might have noticed anyway, many of the games in the state do not have the, "Prize Viewer," or "Next Puzzle," feature, so on some, there is no way to know the result of the spin ahead of time or to recover lost monies. They're basically slot machines with a negligible, "Skill," aspect.

Although, I guess I should mention that all such games legally qualify as Games of Skill in the State of Georgia.

Quote: darkoz

If after twenty spins no bonus triggers again then those machines could easily go for a thousand spins with no bonus round. I never sat there and added them up but I always button mash if I can and I have seen those machines take over an hour to trigger a bonus again.

However when they are in trigger cycle you can easily have bonuses seven or eight times close together and sometimes even more.

Jeez!

there are plenty of PA Skill machines which you can try your hand at! Pennsylvania also offers lottery which provides scratch off tickets as well as lotto drawings. You can pick this from many of the available convenience stores spread throughout the state. Additionally, you can also go for Pennsylvania-only lotto which has drawings including Pick-2,3,4 and 5; Cash 4,5 and Match 6. Bingo is approved in the state if it is undertaken by a charity. To that effect, there is a provision of nearly a dozen bingo halls in the state which are licensed.

I know the casino's are all class III machines but I'm not sure about all the bars, restaurants and independent gambling halls that have slots. Those have always seemed suspect to me. I know one machine I will never play again at a WV casino is that SHFL airball automated roulette table. I sat down one day and played that machine out of curiosity. I played all three columns but left the 0 and 00 open to see how it would play. Ball landed on 0 or 00 8 out of 12 times.

Quote: playr4reel

I know the casino's are all class III machines but I'm not sure about all the bars, restaurants and independent gambling halls that have slots. Those have always seemed suspect to me. I know one machine I will never play again at a WV casino is that SHFL airball automated roulette table. I sat down one day and played that machine out of curiosity. I played all three columns but left the 0 and 00 open to see how it would play. Ball landed on 0 or 00 8 out of 12 times.

The parlor games are Class III VLT’s.

Quote: playr4reel

I know the casino's are all class III machines but I'm not sure about all the bars, restaurants and independent gambling halls that have slots. Those have always seemed suspect to me. I know one machine I will never play again at a WV casino is that SHFL airball automated roulette table. I sat down one day and played that machine out of curiosity. I played all three columns but left the 0 and 00 open to see how it would play. Ball landed on 0 or 00 8 out of 12 times.

If you don’t think that they can do it with a “real” live wheel your wrong.

If I had a team player with me i Am almost certain that I could kill any modern RRS enabled wheel