slot jackpot not mine but IRS is after me for it
Quote: onenickelmiracleHow do the casinos that rely on undocumented immigrants make it go away when jackpots happen? I'm under the impression they pay without id, is this wrong?
I highly doubt there are any American casinos that "rely" on undocumented immigrants for slot machine action (depending on how we define a casinos reliance)(landscaping, house keeping, and washing dishes is much more likely).
I would guess a jackpot hit by someone without ID would be handled the same, regardless of their citizenship or immigration status. Can anyone here report that ever happening? I've heard they take out taxes and pay the rest and you can either come back with ID or just handle it when you file. For an undocumented immigrant I would guess it would most likely just end up as a gift to the treasury.
They should absolutely pay them after they call imagragtionQuote: TomGI highly doubt there are any American casinos that "rely" on undocumented immigrants for slot machine action (depending on how we define a casinos reliance)(landscaping, house keeping, and washing dishes is much more likely).
I would guess a jackpot hit by someone without ID would be handled the same, regardless of their citizenship or immigration status. Can anyone here report that ever happening? I've heard they take out taxes and pay the rest and you can either come back with ID or just handle it when you file. For an undocumented immigrant I would guess it would most likely just end up as a gift to the treasury.
and use the money to fund their deportation costs and any fines associated with breaking the law.
Quote: AxelWolfThey should absolutely pay them after they call imagragtion
and use the money to fund their deportation costs and any fines associated with breaking the law.
Since foreigners, whether here legally or not, are probably more likely to carry an ID than an American for this very reason a policy like this wouldn't get anyone deported. Calling immigration enforcement on anyone who doesn't carry an ID would make it even harder to deport anyone, since they would be spending all their time dealing with people who are here legally.
Something like this would also mean that any casino that breaks ranks and doesn't report them would end up with all the illegal immigrant business and end up earning a lot of money.
That may all be true. I'm just saying if they have a good reason to think they are here illegally after running their name though the system.Quote: TomGSince foreigners, whether here legally or not, are probably more likely to carry an ID than an American for this very reason a policy like this wouldn't get anyone deported. Calling immigration enforcement on anyone who doesn't carry an ID would make it even harder to deport anyone, since they would be spending all their time dealing with people who are here legally.
Something like this would also mean that any casino that breaks ranks and doesn't report them would end up with all the illegal immigrant business and end up earning a lot of money.
Like in a situation where they use/have a local address, (perhaps attached to their players card) but don't have a SS number.
I have read ( not sure if it's true) lottery jackpot winners here illegally have been denied lottery wins.
Quote: AxelWolf
I have read ( not sure if it's true) lottery jackpot winners here illegally have been denied lottery wins.
No its not true
https://www.macon.com/news/article28645024.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nydailynews.com/new-york/winning-mega-million-lottery-guarantee-green-card-illegal-immigrant-article-1.1075661%3foutputType=amp
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/03/nyregion/illegal-immigrant-duped-out-of-3-million-ny-lottery-prize.html
Just a few examples
you can make a lot of money from a certain portion of a population and I can be the difference between profit and loss for a small profit and a big profit. It is kind of ridiculous that multiple people have taken offense to the word relying as if I'm breaking one of the Ten Commandments giving it to us by the Lord PC herself. Some of the Southwest Native American casinos I had thought I remembered someone mentioning something like this, that's where this came from. I had thought that the Native American casinos had a little bit of power sometimes that they would use to bring in the money that would otherwise be scared away. It was all basically just a question I don't care either way. Perhaps I had thought that they use some Dead Man's social security number for all these jackpots or whatever. Apparently it's not true and I'm fine with that.Quote: TomGI highly doubt there are any American casinos that "rely" on undocumented immigrants for slot machine action (depending on how we define a casinos reliance)(landscaping, house keeping, and washing dishes is much more likely).
I would guess a jackpot hit by someone without ID would be handled the same, regardless of their citizenship or immigration status. Can anyone here report that ever happening? I've heard they take out taxes and pay the rest and you can either come back with ID or just handle it when you file. For an undocumented immigrant I would guess it would most likely just end up as a gift to the treasury.
Quote: onenickelmiracleyou can make a lot of money from a certain portion of a population and I can be the difference between profit and loss for a small profit and a big profit. It is kind of ridiculous that multiple people have taken offense to the word relying as if I'm breaking one of the Ten Commandments giving it to us by the Lord PC herself. Some of the Southwest Native American casinos I had thought I remembered someone mentioning something like this, that's where this came from. I had thought that the Native American casinos had a little bit of power sometimes that they would use to bring in the money that would otherwise be scared away. It was all basically just a question I don't care either way. Perhaps I had thought that they use some Dead Man's social security number for all these jackpots or whatever. Apparently it's not true and I'm fine with that.
Ok well, I know Genting casinos cater heavily to an Asian market.
And what was the Sands in Bethlehem Pa., catered to homeless with no ID (yeah, here come the homeless bus jokes but its true).
Perhaps the less regulated Indian casinos in the Midwest could be trying to tap into a local market other casinos avoid. Who knows.
Come to think of it might be a good place to scout for unpatched legacy machines.
OTOH the reason I've heard of these places is because one was the scene of a homicide featured on The First 48.
I can absolutely envision a casino that thinks you are a known customer, and did not ask you for ID for what was probably not your first jackpot. They are required to ask for ID, does not mean that they did.
In response to the person who does not have any ID, or an expired one, we are supposed to pay the jackpot, and then put the money into "safekeeping" until such time that you can produce a valid ID. Many of those jackpots are never claimed for one reason or another.
and then what happens to the money? Hopefully it gets sent to the states unclaimed property division.Quote: FCBLComishCasinos are required to keep copies of the signed W2-g, I believe for 7 years.
I can absolutely envision a casino that thinks you are a known customer, and did not ask you for ID for what was probably not your first jackpot. They are required to ask for ID, does not mean that they did.
In response to the person who does not have any ID, or an expired one, we are supposed to pay the jackpot, and then put the money into "safekeeping" until such time that you can produce a valid ID. Many of those jackpots are never claimed for one reason or another.
Quote: AxelWolfand then what happens to the money? Hopefully it gets sent to the states unclaimed property division.
I would think it gets turned into a subsidy for impoverished bus riders
Quote: darkozimpoverished bus riders
Are there any other kind of bus riders?
Who are supposed to have wi-fi on the 139 line?Quote: darkozI would think it gets turned into a subsidy for impoverished bus riders
Quote: SanchoPanzaWho are supposed to have wi-fi on the 139 line?
Lol, I don't even know the number of the AC line.
Methinks SanchoPanza is a closeted bus rider
Quote: AxelWolfand then what happens to the money? Hopefully it gets sent to the states unclaimed property division.
I think we have to keep it on the books for years. I will try to find out.
Quote: terrysm74062186Well, I have given the casino over two weeks to find the signed copy of the w2g that showed my signature. They said as of now they cannot find it. Ask for an explanation and they would not say why. Also I talked with the IRS and they say they do not get a signed w2g but receive electronic notification of the jackpot. Am writing a letter to the irs explaining my efforts to find a singed copy of the w2g and no one has one and asking them where we go from here. Just curious if they will try to bluff me into paying. If so we go to tax court.
Thanks for the update. I'm now willing to bet real money that your SSN somehow got on someone else's w2g, and when the IRS efile compiled, it put your name on the jackpot you didn't win. I would also bet it's a checksum flaw in the casino's efiler/compiler that it would default to a SSN match if the names don't match instead of kicking out an error report to the clerk to manually verify.
The person who actually got the jackpot may have paid the taxes on it and the IRS is owed nothing, in reality. Because I seriously doubt the IRS objects to overpayment, or deductions for more losses than reported wins. If the wins are actually less (because that person filed losses that includes the 15k amount, but the IRS shows them owing less without that w2g), it would still be a zero net income in that scenario.
I'm also betting, if the IRS makes a stink about it to the casino, the only way the casino will find the error is a manual check of EVERY signed w2g in their files to find your social on someone else's paperwork. Which would be a total drudgework assignment for some poor soul. Yuck.
I agree or am in no position to dispute anything BBB said except for the last sentence. The IRS should be able to give the casino the date and I would hope to all that is holy that the system has a sort by date function, so that wouldn't be too hard. Maybe a couple hours.
When I came back with my license and ticket, they compared.the signatures and paid me.
Quote: billryanI hit a $3030 jackpot at the casino in Newport Rhode Island. It ended up I didn't have my wallet with me and what they did was have me sign the back of the ticket and then sign two blank sheets of paper.
When I came back with my license and ticket, they e signatures and paid me.
Hmm, does not sound safe to be honest...
Quote: beachbumbabs
I'm also betting, if the IRS makes a stink about it to the casino, the only way the casino will find the error is a manual check of EVERY signed w2g in their files to find your social on someone else's paperwork. Which would be a total drudgework assignment for some poor soul. Yuck.
Most casinos file them by date so it might not be too bad.
Quote: Mission146Agreed, thanks!
I agree or am in no position to dispute anything BBB said except for the last sentence. The IRS should be able to give the casino the date and I would hope to all that is holy that the system has a sort by date function, so that wouldn't be too hard. Maybe a couple hours.
Really good point. It seems extremely likely there is a date on each w2g that gets transferred to the efile.
Based on what the OP said (that they could find other w2g's of his, but not this one), sounds like they get filed primarily under the player's name. If they file chronologically (next sort criteria), you'd still have to check each player, but if they didn't have one for that date, you could move on to the next quickly. Still you'd have to leaf through each form per player until you got to that date to eliminate that player. I'm guessing a day or two.
Months later he gets another letter from the IRS demanding the same money with more interest and fees. The friend gets angry at me for allegedly not paying his taxes. So I filed a dispute with the IRS on his behalf. It was heard by an independent government agency, which was very attentive and fair. However, ultimately the burden was on me to prove my case, which I did by getting a copy of the check. The remark in the memo field won the case for me.
I say that because if you officially dispute the IRS demand, it will delay the situation for months. However, in the end I think you'll still have to prove you are innocent, as opposed to them proving guilt.
Quote: WizardI once sent a check to the IRS to pay the back taxes for a friend. I sent it with a letter explaining what I was doing and it said in the memo field of the check "for xxx-xx-xxxx," where the x's are his SSN.
Months later he gets another letter from the IRS demanding the same money with more interest and fees. The friend gets angry at me for allegedly not paying his taxes. So I filed a dispute with the IRS on his behalf. It was heard by an independent government agency, which was very attentive and fair. However, ultimately the burden was on me to prove my case, which I did by getting a copy of the check. The remark in the memo field won the case for me.
I say that because if you officially dispute the IRS demand, it will delay the situation for months. However, in the end I think you'll still have to prove you are innocent, as opposed to them proving guilt.
I remember hearing this years ago, that in IRS "court" the burden of proof is on you, not the IRS!
Kind of makes sense.... "I made 1000 charitable donations of $20 each. I have no records. Prove that I didn't!"
Quote: Wizard
I say that because if you officially dispute the IRS demand, it will delay the situation for months. However, in the end I think you'll still have to prove you are innocent, as opposed to them proving guilt.
He did mention travel that would put him outside of the area on the day in question.
Failing that, how would he even be able to prove a negative? It sounds like casinos would then have the ability to attribute W2-G's to whomever they want to, since the person has to prove that the casino messed up. Absent his good fortune of being out of town that day, I don't see any way that he could conclusively prove that he did not hit that jackpot if the fact that neither the casino nor the IRS can produce a signed W2-G isn't enough.
Why even have W2-G forms for the player to sign if it doesn't matter?
Quote: rsactuaryThis can't possibly be true. Two pieces of ID are needed... so even if you say they used the player's card, a second one would be needed and the discrepancy in names would be noted.
I agree with you, indeed two pieces of ID need to be used. It's strange that it worked out for that person..
Quote: Mission146Failing that, how would he even be able to prove a negative?
He could ask the casino for a copy of the W-2. I think this was brought up before in this thread and they said they couldn't find it. That said, I don't think things look good for the OP. Filing a protest would at least delay things, if he wants to.
Quote: rdw4potusHow do things like fast pay work? Looks like there's a way to force the machine to unlock & pay by ticket if the player's card was used. I'm assuming that the attendant then comes by with the paperwork? I've seen the first part of that on online slot videos, but they don't film what I assume happens as the second half of the transaction...
Basically before playing, you go to a slot attendant in the high limit room and tell them to enable fast pay or whatever their version of it is. Some places you’ll sign a w2g where the gross pay is blank. Then you do all your gambling and when you hit a taxable, you type in your pin and it unlocks the machine. The credits stay on the machine. A slot attendant isn’t necessary for anything once you get fast pay enabled. Caveat is they usually have limits, so if you hit for over $25k or $50k, then it has to be a handpay and you can’t self/fast pay. At the end of your session, you tell them to end the session and they’ll print up a single summed w2g for you and give it to you. If you forget to ask them to close the session, they’ll automatically do it at the end of the gaming day or whatever criteria they have, then send you a w2g in the mail.
Quote: WizardHe could ask the casino for a copy of the W-2. I think this was brought up before in this thread and they said they couldn't find it. That said, I don't think things look good for the OP. Filing a protest would at least delay things, if he wants to.
Exactly, if nobody needs to ever present a copy of the W2-G, then what mechanism is there from preventing errors such as this one from happening? If nobody can prove that the tax obligation is owed, other than because the casino says so, why should the OP have to prove that it is not owed? More than that, how could the OP prove that it is not owed?
Let us know how it turns out. And I have had casinos just take my players card if I have hit a taxable in the casino as well.
Quote: terrysm74062186Thanks for the input. I will have to locate that form. Was not aware of its existence. The IRS wanted me to respond by last week so I made sure to fax them and sent a certified letter the week before. Now that I have responded have not heard from them yet. Seems they want a response by a certain date and threaten consequences if you do not and then go on a different schedule if you do respond. Will be interesting to see how this goes. i am curious if they will put the burden on proving the casino made a mistake on me or will the burden be on the casino to prove the w2g is correct. Seems if they cannot produce a signed document, the fact the jackpot was paid on a players card they need to just drop it. Also I was out of town on the date the jackpot was payed. I did talk to a few folks I know who play at the Casino and one said they had hit several jackpots and because they were playing with a card they did not request id. I wonder if they produce a signed w2g and I show proof I was in New York on the date they say I was there, that even gets more interesting. Not like I was just down the street.
My experience is that it takes the IRS about 6 to 8 weeks to respond after every action.
Quote: terrysm74062186I am really surprised by the IRS response i received in the mail today after my response of 5 weeks ago. They are saying they need about 2 months to look into what I said and will get back to me but if I want to pay something that would be a good idea since the clock starts running the first time they contact me. Oh well if this takes years that is fine. I am 70 and hell.
The "clock starts running" threat only works against tax dodgers. You should be ok. Keep up the good work on meeting the deadlines.
Quote: terrysm74062186I am really surprised by the IRS response i received in the mail today after my response of 5 weeks ago. They are saying they need about 2 months to look into what I said and will get back to me but if I want to pay something that would be a good idea since the clock starts running the first time they contact me. Oh well if this takes years that is fine. I am 70 and hell.
I definitely like your sense of humor! I am completely on your side! I hope everything will be resolved peacefully and in your favor.
[Gambling With an Edge] guest Russell Fox #gamblingWithAnEdge
http://podplayer.net/?id=79780717 via @PodcastAddict
Quote: terrysm74062186I am really surprised by the IRS response i received in the mail today after my response of 5 weeks ago. They are saying they need about 2 months to look into what I said and will get back to me but if I want to pay something that would be a good idea since the clock starts running the first time they contact me. Oh well if this takes years that is fine. I am 70 and hell.
Would you share what your certified letter contained (not verbatim, of course) and any evidence you sent to them to back up your dispute?
Interesting read so far and will continue to follow this thread until the outcome.
Forgive me for not reading every post in a 15-page thread, but I hope someone suggested that you would benefit from getting a tax attorney or other tax defense specialist to help you. I'll understand if you don't want to shell out for their fee, but it should easily be less than the $6000 you might be on the hook for otherwise if you can't resolve this yourself. You could certainly try to put off hiring help until such time as the IRS is actually ready to levy/lien, but by that time the penalties + interest could be substantial and if you lose you'll have to pay a lot more.
* Objective statement of fact and relevant to answer the poster's puzzlement about getting a letter.
Quote: KevinAAUntil this gets resolved, if you get a handpay at this casino, you should tip ZERO for it AND explain why, that they do not check ID for handpays and as a result, you are facing a $6,000 tax liability on someone else's jackpot that they paid under your name. It is 100% their fault and they deserve zero tips for being lazy and sloppy.
This is lousy advice.
That's like going back to the same restaurant over and over and never leaving a tip because during a past visit, the chef messed up one of my orders and the manager refused to rectify the matter.
Better advice is to not visit this particular casino ever again (or at least not until the matter is resolved to OP's satisfaction) and just go visit another casino instead.
Quote: FTBThis is lousy advice.
That's like going back to the same restaurant over and over and never leaving a tip because during a past visit, the chef messed up one of my orders and the manager refused to rectify the matter.
Better advice is to not visit this particular casino ever again (or at least not until the matter is resolved to OP's satisfaction) and just go visit another casino instead.
That's a good option if the casino notices that the OP doesn't come there anymore. But in a big casino that might not happen.
Your example is terrible. A better example is that someone else had an absolutely wonderful meal while you were out of town and you got stuck with the bill because of their incompetence. Zero tip!
Quote: KevinAAThat's a good option if the casino notices that the OP doesn't come there anymore. But in a big casino that might not happen.
Your example is terrible. A better example is that someone else had an absolutely wonderful meal while you were out of town and you got stuck with the bill because of their incompetence. Zero tip!
You're missing the point completely with your focus on my example.
Whether someone is stuck paying another's check at a restaurant or if someone's order was messed up, continuing to choose to visit that restaurant but not paying the tip and/or advising OP to keep visiting this casino but tip nothing on a handpay in said casino where a mistake was previously made that was still not rectified is still lousy advice.
The restaurant is still making money off that person and that individual is punishing an employee (by not tipping) for something that employee had nothing to do with pertaining to another situation involving another employee who made a mistake.
Ultimately, it is the restaurant that has the responsibility to make things right. How is going back over and over to that restaurant but refusing to tip sound advice?
With this analogy in mind, why should the OP keep going to the casino where the mishap occurred? Just visit another casino. Who cares if "the casino notices the OP doesn't come there anymore"? Hurt the casino or restaurant where it hurts: their bottom line. They will have lost OP as a customer including losing OP's money and this will compel them to make sure their employees don't do this again (retraining, fire them?) or even better, make things right for the OP so OP continues to visit their machines, tables, restaurants, etc. OP is also less likely to badmouth the casino on social media, avoids bad publicity, etc.
Enough customers stop going back to an establishment, that establishment struggles to make money and/or closes for good.
The employee made a mistake but who trained that employee? Who is ultimately going to make things right? The casino, the restaurant, not the employee, who may or may not even work there anymore.
If a restaurant screwed up my order or overcharged me or did any other number of things and they refuse to make things right, why would I go back over and over to that restaurant and "show them a lesson" by not tipping? Let me keep forking over money to this restaurant and their clueless management/owner(s) while screwing the low wage waitress that relies on the tips of customers... yes, yes, that will really show the restaurant a lesson!
Visiting any establishment over and over that does not make things right for a past error but refusing to tip every time you go back is a terrible recommendation I hope OP ignores.
Received a responce from the IRS. They claim they cannot do anything unless they receive a corrected w2g form from the casino. This is spite of the fact I sent them proof I was in New York on the day the Casino claimed I won the money. Also the fact the Casino has not been able for over 2 and a half years has not provided me a signed copy of the win. One would think they would take my concern a bit more serious and look into things. At this point I plan on simply responding I disagree with their position and since the Casino has not provided me a copy, and no one can explain how I could win the jackpot on the day they claim if I was not even in town and simply take it to tax court. Guess I do not understand how they can simply take an electronic communication from the Casino and say tough shit unless they fix it. Maybe I am a bit naive but do not understand how tax court can rule against me given the circumstances. I do have another way to deal with this but for now would appreciate any input you folks could provide. Thanks.
