heatmap
heatmap
Joined: Feb 12, 2018
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Jimmy2Times
May 29th, 2019 at 1:06:33 PM permalink
I was reading the "Bigger bet, bigger chance?" thread and it has my mind racing because i know i have read somewhere whether it be a patent or an article that states that the bigger bets qualify you for different sets of prizes. It seems that most people agree with these statements made in that thread.

So i went looking for the info, but came up empty handed when it comes to payout percentages and what not, but have stumbled upon GOLD.

heres the statement :

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Although slot machines in Britain are similar to slot machines in North
America, a significant difference, with respect to the present paper, is that British
machines "use a compensator which monitors the payout ratio game by game and
initiates action, as necessary, to influence the random selection of wins and thereby
attempt to hold the ratio at all times close to the preselected level" (British patent GB 2
165 386A, as cited in Parke & Griffiths, 2006, p. 153), whereas in North America the
machines do not have a compensator and the result of every spin is determined by a
random number generator (for a detailed discussion of the differences between British
and North American machines, see Parke & Griffiths, 2006, pp. 152-153).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This link has already been known by some members here but i feel like this has been overlooked or possibly buried on purpose

PAR Sheets, probabilities, and slot machine play: Implications for problem and non-problem gambling"
Kevin A. Harrigan and Mike Dixon, University of Waterloo, Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/7732/1679b1e9499893d1e5381129ab74db10586b.pdf
MaxPen
MaxPen
Joined: Feb 4, 2015
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May 29th, 2019 at 1:12:13 PM permalink
Quote: heatmap

I was reading the "Bigger bet, bigger chance?" thread and it has my mind racing because i know i have read somewhere whether it be a patent or an article that states that the bigger bets qualify you for different sets of prizes. It seems that most people agree with these statements made in that thread.

So i went looking for the info, but came up empty handed when it comes to payout percentages and what not, but have stumbled upon GOLD.

heres the statement :

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Although slot machines in Britain are similar to slot machines in North
America, a significant difference, with respect to the present paper, is that British
machines "use a compensator which monitors the payout ratio game by game and
initiates action, as necessary, to influence the random selection of wins and thereby
attempt to hold the ratio at all times close to the preselected level" (British patent GB 2
165 386A, as cited in Parke & Griffiths, 2006, p. 153), whereas in North America the
machines do not have a compensator and the result of every spin is determined by a
random number generator (for a detailed discussion of the differences between British
and North American machines, see Parke & Griffiths, 2006, pp. 152-153).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This link has already been known by some members here but i feel like this has been overlooked or possibly buried on purpose

PAR Sheets, probabilities, and slot machine play: Implications for problem and non-problem gambling"
Kevin A. Harrigan and Mike Dixon, University of Waterloo, Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/7732/1679b1e9499893d1e5381129ab74db10586b.pdf



Does anyone know if this is true?
OnceDear
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OnceDear
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Jimmy2TimesMaxPen
May 29th, 2019 at 1:39:57 PM permalink
Quote: MaxPen

Does anyone know if this is true?

I don't know if it's really implemented in that way in the UK, but it's pretty evil if it is.

Far more of that topic here/
http://jgi.camh.net/index.php/jgi/article/view/3811/3825
If you are enjoying the game, you're already winning.
Ayecarumba
Ayecarumba
Joined: Nov 17, 2009
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May 29th, 2019 at 1:45:55 PM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

I don't know if it's really implemented in that way in the UK, but it's pretty evil if it is.

Far more of that topic here/
http://jgi.camh.net/index.php/jgi/article/view/3811/3825



Haven't these these "fruit" machines always been closer to Class II than Class III?
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
heatmap
heatmap
Joined: Feb 12, 2018
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May 29th, 2019 at 2:18:11 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

Haven't these these "fruit" machines always been closer to Class II than Class III?



It’s interesting that you say the fruit thing because a long shot is me claiming that the company called h.c. Evans or the people involved in that company are the root of all of what we know about current gaming there are remnants of their intellectual properties that they couldn’t help but keep in their games. I see the fruits as more of a symbol just like the Freemasons use symbols.

Their roulette wheels haven’t changed much either except their brand name
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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heatmap
May 29th, 2019 at 5:20:56 PM permalink
We had a good discussion about English slots in 2014, after Wizard went to ICE. I'm sure this came up and got dissected in some detail.

Quote: WoO


Slot Machines

Normally I don't like to update a blog entry, but I got so much feedback about the slots in the UK that I had to revise what I wrote originally. I've been writing about slot machines since 1997, and one of the most frequent questions I get is about UK "fruit machines." In particular, some machines there do not offer the same odds every spin but adjust the odds continuously to achieve short-term return targets. I must have been asked specifically how they work hundreds of times. While I can't answer the question completely, let me tell you what I do understand.

First, not every slot machine in the UK is what I'll refer to as a Fruit Machine, which use some form of "adaptive logic" to achieve short-term win goals. The ones in the casinos are much like the ones you see in Las Vegas, although with some limits on the maximum bet and jackpot size. To be specific, there are various classes of machines, as follows:

Class A — Don't exist
Class B1 — These are the most Vegas-like slots and found in casinos only. Maximum win of £10,000.
Class B2 — These are multi-game machines often found in race and sports betting parlors. A reeled slot game in this class will have smaller jackpots than a B1 machine. Maximum win of £500.
Class B3, B4, C — These are the Fruit Slots typically found in pubs.
Class D — These are amusement only games that you might find in an arcade. For example, a claw game where you try to win a teddy bear.

"So, Wiz, how do these Fruit Machines work?" you might ask. I've read through lots of websites and read lots of emails and forum posts about the topic and I'm still not exactly sure. Two terms you hear come up over and over are "compensated" and "adaptive logic." Apparently, the goal of these games is to ensure the proprietor of the game will make money consistently on a weekly basis. The game has a memory and keeps track of how much money it has been taking in and giving out. If it has been overpaying beyond its target return percentage, then it tightens up. Likewise, if it has been underpaying, then it will loosen up.

"But how does it do this?" I hear you asking. Other websites contradict each other about this so I looked at an actual patent that covered the technology,UK 2087618-A. It mentions that the probability of the player achieving certain features and bonuses in the game is dependent upon the recent payout return percentage. Thus, the player is more likely to win the features and bonuses if the game has been underpaying in its recent history. How far back it goes, I don't know, but I believe it to be about a week, depending on how much the machine gets played.


Excerpt from:
https://wizardofodds.com/blog/gambling-united-kingdom/

Also, this discussion :

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/trip-reports/17208-gambling-in-the-united-kingdom/#post333106
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
heatmap
heatmap
Joined: Feb 12, 2018
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May 29th, 2019 at 6:10:34 PM permalink
BBB, this contradicts everything Ive ever read about every game complying with GLI standards. I stick by my statement, that if you believe that GLI is the god and everyone listens to them, then these machines wouldnt exist. GLI specifically states on their website, at the very top of the page, that if the jurisdictions do not specifically have the rules defined, then their rules do not apply to that jurisdiction.

My question is, not if they are rigging these SLOTS anymore, because lets be serious i think its all rigged more than we expect, that is if this affects the casino and gaming industry, in any way, how do they recover, if they lose anything? because people dont care about what were talking about here.

i dont understand how this hasnt been a constant topic since the wizard has even said that personally.
mamat
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beachbumbabs
June 4th, 2019 at 12:19:27 AM permalink
Quote: heatmap

I was reading the "Bigger bet, bigger chance?" thread and it has my mind racing because i know i have read somewhere whether it be a patent or an article that states that the bigger bets qualify you for different sets of prizes.

Some US slots have different paybacks for different bet sizes.

The old Aruze "Rescue Spins" advertised "over 95% payback at max bet", and the configuration screens confirmed this claim.
Max Bet: 95.02% (I think)
Other Bets: 88-89-90% or whatever (not sure what the full set of possibilities was, since I've never seen any PAR sheet revision).
https://www.advantageslots.com/how-to-advantage-play-aruzes-rescue-spins/

This led to AP strategies which used martingale-like bet increases as counters approached 0.
Max bet immediately, 100 spins-to-go, 50?, 25?, 10?, 5?, 2?...depending on multiplier.

At one casino, the rescue spins were worth $2K-3K/wk ($8-12K/month, EV/play = $25 avg) and there was an interesting community of dedicated "Rescue Spin APs" who didn't know how to play any other slots (and didn't socialize with most machine-APs). In most casinos, rescue spins were almost worthless ($2-5/play, low volume), so traveling APs usually had no idea what was happening, or why the crazy locals were playing so aggressively.

----
Currently, there are some popular AP slots which have different paybacks for different bet sizes.
Radged
Radged
Joined: May 10, 2019
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June 11th, 2019 at 11:42:45 PM permalink
Quote: MaxPen

Does anyone know if this is true?


Unfortunately it's true.
DRich
DRich
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heatmap
June 12th, 2019 at 7:49:26 AM permalink
Quote: Radged

Unfortunately it's true.



I agree.
Living longer does not always infer +EV

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