Man hits for $50k on slot - or did he?
Result was player saw two orange 7s and red 7 as if all three were red and thus player expected fifty thousand payout but machine properly paid out only four thousand dollars for the two orange 7s.
Quote: FleaStiffSlot machine in tribal casino near Phoenix had burned out light that was backordered for eight weeks but machine remained on the floor taking people's money and offering possible payoffs since light bulb was not a malfunction of the algorithm
Result was player saw two orange 7s and red 7 as if all three were red and thus player expected fifty thousand payout but machine properly paid out only four thousand dollars for the two orange 7s.
I was just about to post this but I think this casino is where one of our forum members works so I didnt post it.
The casino is in the right on this one.
Say what you will, he doesn't have to pretend to be pleased by the malfunction ruling, even if legitimate. Not his fault.
Quote: rxwineSo, according to the explanation, even if bells and whistles were going off, and Jackpot was flashing like it hit, what only matters is whether the algorithm functioned properly.
Say what you will, he doesn't have to pretend to be pleased by the malfunction ruling, even if legitimate. Not his fault.
I am under the impression the bells and whistles went off for the $4,000 hit. If the machine triggered something exclusive to a $50,000 hit, I might change my opinion.
Assuming the casino can show their explanation is correct, there should be no other payday for the bettor than the four grand.
I would estimate that the $46k is nothing compared to the negative press this story has generated.
Also, sounds like shit design on the slot machine. Two "orange" 7s and 1 "red" 7 that looks like an orange? Either intentionally misleading the player to think there are more of the premium symbols on the reel, or really bad design.
I also wonder how frequently or infrequently there’s a malfunction (say, the 2’s complement malfunction where you get a jackpot for multi millions) and customer doesn’t get reimbursed his $3.60 or however much he bet.
Edit: Although I wouldn’t necessarily consider that a malfunction, just poor coding.
Quote: GWAEI was just about to post this but I think this casino is where one of our forum members works so I didnt post it.
Zcore13 doesn't work there. And he would also have the integrity to man up and pay this out in full.
I really hope the negative press costs them more than $46k in the end. If this story convinces 10 decent size players ($5000 annual loss) to quit playing there, then they'll be down more money within a year.
Also Harrah's LV had people on Twitter questioning this payout. This was 8X blue.
Quote: tringlomaneZcore13 doesn't work there. And he would also have the integrity to man up and pay this out in full.
I really hope the negative press costs them more than $46k in the end. If this story convinces 10 decent size players ($5000 annual loss) to quit playing there, then they'll be down more money within a year.
Also Harrah's LV had people on Twitter questioning this payout. This was 8X blue.
Did the player play 2 credits? If they only played 1 credit they should have got $50k but only got $40k. It looks to me like it might have evaluated it as 8x Red 7's which makes more sense than 8x Blue 7's.
Quote: DRich
Did the player play 2 credits? If they only played 1 credit they should have got $50k but only got $40k. It looks to me like it might have evaluated it as 8x Red 7's which makes more sense than 8x Blue 7's.
You can faintly see at the lower right that they wagered 2 credits.
There are regular 7s, which could be red or orange, but regardless of whether a light was burned out (the slots probably use LEDs, so the "burned out light" story is also dubious), he got all three of the top symbols!
Also, misaligned reel strips would become obvious with just a small amount of play. Maybe there's a whopper of a malfunction in the computer.
Quote: smoothgrhWaitaminute, in the news report, the guy has a video of the three "Double-7" symbols lined up. The "Double-7" symbol is the top symbol.
There are regular 7s, which could be red or orange, but regardless of whether a light was burned out (the slots probably use LEDs, so the "burned out light" story is also dubious), he got all three of the top symbols!
Also, misaligned reel strips would become obvious with just a small amount of play. Maybe there's a whopper of a malfunction in the computer.
That game has regular and double symbols for all three colors of 7s. Only the red 7 double appears separately in the paytable, though.
Quote: CrystalMathThat game has regular and double symbols for all three colors of 7s. Only the red 7 double appears separately in the paytable, though.
Are you saying (for the most recent picture), it should have paid $5k for 3 blue 7's, but then x8 for the doubles, making it pay $40k? That's the only thing that seems to match up to the payout.
Does anyone know if if this went though all the NGC stages? This is something they usually rule in favor of the player in the end.Quote: tringlomaneZcore13 doesn't work there. And he would also have the integrity to man up and pay this out in full.
I really hope the negative press costs them more than $46k in the end. If this story convinces 10 decent size players ($5000 annual loss) to quit playing there, then they'll be down more money within a year.
Also Harrah's LV had people on Twitter questioning this payout. This was 8X blue.
Quote: tringlomaneZcore13 doesn't work there. And he would also have the integrity to man up and pay this out in full.
I really hope the negative press costs them more than $46k in the end. If this story convinces 10 decent size players ($5000 annual loss) to quit playing there, then they'll be down more money within a year.
Also Harrah's LV had people on Twitter questioning this payout. This was 8X blue.
There is NO way that looks like 8x blue. Those LOOK like three faded red double 7's, and he was playing 2 credits so if I were him I'd be expecting $125,000 before taxes.
If there is both orange symbols and red symbols on a reel, that is fine but they must be utterly separate and distinct at all times, not just when some casino flunky gets around to putting in some blown out light bulb.
Ambient lighting can affect the display also. Things need to be certain. Just as the lawa
of debt collection letters is based upon the perceptions of non-sophisticated recipients
the law of machine payouts should be based on slightly soused, elderly folks with less
than perfect vision.
If it takes a technician to explain it, the casino should pay. The casino supplied the booze, the lighting
etc. and the general mood of bells and whistles and frivolity.
This person needs to take these pictures to the local media. Also, needs to stage a sit in as close to the entrance to the property as legally possible informing anyone who will listen.
Quote: RSAre you saying (for the most recent picture), it should have paid $5k for 3 blue 7's, but then x8 for the doubles, making it pay $40k? That's the only thing that seems to match up to the payout.
Yes, that is how it looks to me.
Quote: MaxPenNot sure why the guy isn't getting 125K for that hand. Those Indians are crooked. Trying to pay double $2000 for 3 orange sevens is laughable at best. The listed pay table obviously is not matching with the programmed display. At a minimum the person is entitled to 40K and not the 4K that the Indians are claiming. You can also clearly see the 3 plain orange sevens above the 3 red double 7's in the pic. There is nothing wrong with the lighting. Indians trying to scalp their players plain and simple.
This person needs to take these pictures to the local media. Also, needs to stage a sit in as close to the entrance to the property as legally possible informing anyone who will listen.
That's what I was thinking too. Looks like $125,000 for three double red 7's to me. If I were the Gambler they'd be "catching these hands" so to speak(Verbally, not literally because I wouldn't want to land in jail or in a lawsuit for physical assault) if they told me I wasn't getting paid that $125,000.
Quote: DRichQuote: tringlomaneZcore13 doesn't work there. And he would also have the integrity to man up and pay this out in full.
I really hope the negative press costs them more than $46k in the end. If this story convinces 10 decent size players ($5000 annual loss) to quit playing there, then they'll be down more money within a year.
Also Harrah's LV had people on Twitter questioning this payout. This was 8X blue.
g]
Did the player play 2 credits? If they only played 1 credit they should have got $50k but only got $40k. It looks to me like it might have evaluated it as 8x Red 7's which makes more sense than 8x Blue 7's.
A few things I've noticed about this picture.......
The top line on the digital readout above the 12 button keypad appears (I may be totally wrong) to read "JP Ret USD 40,000.00". (I interpret that to read "Jackpot Return USD $40,000.00").
To the right is what looks like a players card slot, though I don't know for sure a card is actually inserted, but if there was would it have the payout embedded?
Underneath the 3 "Double Red 7's" it says "Jackpot Handpay $40,000.00".
Would any of these items in the picture have any bearing on what the payout should be??
ETA: I lost the picture
Quote: sodawaterThey should pay him the remaining $46,000 and keep their slots' light bulbs more up to date in the future.
I would estimate that the $46k is nothing compared to the negative press this story has generated.
Also, sounds like shit design on the slot machine. Two "orange" 7s and 1 "red" 7 that looks like an orange? Either intentionally misleading the player to think there are more of the premium symbols on the reel, or really bad design.
Yes - they have certainly received more negative press than the $46k was worth and, in all likelihood, the guy would have lost it back unless he just up and quit slots forever
Quote: NathanQuote: tringlomaneZcore13 doesn't work there. And he would also have the integrity to man up and pay this out in full.
I really hope the negative press costs them more than $46k in the end. If this story convinces 10 decent size players ($5000 annual loss) to quit playing there, then they'll be down more money within a year.
Also Harrah's LV had people on Twitter questioning this payout. This was 8X blue.
There is NO way that looks like 8x blue. Those LOOK like three faded red double 7's, and he was playing 2 credits so if I were him I'd be expecting $125,000 before taxes.
Exactly - the Orange 7's on the pay table do not even list a DOUBLE orange 7 option - so, how could they claim they were orange if there were no DOUBLE 7 oranges on the pay table?
Quote: aceofspadesQuote: NathanQuote: tringlomaneZcore13 doesn't work there. And he would also have the integrity to man up and pay this out in full.
I really hope the negative press costs them more than $46k in the end. If this story convinces 10 decent size players ($5000 annual loss) to quit playing there, then they'll be down more money within a year.
Also Harrah's LV had people on Twitter questioning this payout. This was 8X blue.
There is NO way that looks like 8x blue. Those LOOK like three faded red double 7's, and he was playing 2 credits so if I were him I'd be expecting $125,000 before taxes.
Exactly - the Orange 7's on the payout menu do not even list a DOUBLE orange 7 option - so, how could they claim they were orange if there were no DOUBLE 7 oranges on the slot menu?
Thank you. I also looked for Double orange 7's payout and found nothing about orange 7's. The guy has every right to demand $125,000 payout before taxes. If there were orange 7's listed on the payouts then he would be just entitled to the $40,000/$46,000 before taxes. But as the payouts are to most Gambler's eyes that looks like three red double 7's for a payment of $125,000 before taxes. I don't see how they could claim those are BLUE 7's.... WTF!
This is an edit. I DO now see a payout for orange 7's and those 3 "red" 7's DO look slightly orange, (Orange reddish) although there is no payout for triple orange 7's.
You can buy opaque reels or backlit reels for this game, and they can be fluorescent or led. The backlit strips fade over time also.
The strip layout, which is the same for all 3 reels, is:
Blue 7
5 Bar Double
Red 7
1 Bar Double
Orange 7
Blue 7 Double
1 Bar
Red 7 Double
5 Bar
Orange 7 Double
1 Bar
You can clearly see on his picture of the machine that the symbols below his are Bar, Bar, 5 Bar. For the first two symbols, you can also see the bottom of the 5s above them.
As for the second picture, you can tell from the reel strip layout that these are actually the Blue 7 Doubles because you can see the Orange 7s above and the 1 Bars below.
I feel sorry (slightly) for the guy, but he got the correct payout.
ok.Quote: CrystalMathYou can clearly see on his picture of the machine that the symbols below his are Bar, Bar, 5 Bar. For the first two symbols, you can also see the bottom of the 5s above them.
nice observation and investigative work.
does this mean that ALL slot machine reels are exactly the same because this one is also exactly the same, by reels you found.
Did you find from the manufacture exactly how they should be?
so ONE simple solution is to make all the symbols on the reels the same color (RED) and the machine will tell you what you won.Quote: CrystalMathAs for the second picture, you can tell from the reel strip layout that these are actually the Blue 7 Doubles
See how well that goes over with slot players.
simple computer reading of the colors in the photo for the 7
from the video
I got (1st try)
{Red, Green, Blue}
reel 1: 255,0,35
reel 2: 255,0,34
reel 3: 255,0,39
it is also well known that digital images can play tricks
as the image is created
no jury trial on Indian land
this is pure ripoff and a great way to set up all reel type slot machines, that are slowly dying.
that casino WILL lose money and customers over this.
slot players are NOT totally complete fools.
Quote: CrystalMathI found reel strips for this game, and it looks like the casino is right. I actually think he hit Orange 7 double, Orange 7 double, Red 7 double, based on the symbols that surround them. The correct pay for this is the 3 mixed 7s for $500 times 8 for the multipliers.
You can buy opaque reels or backlit reels for this game, and they can be fluorescent or led. The backlit strips fade over time also.
The strip layout, which is the same for all 3 reels, is:
Blue 7
5 Bar Double
Red 7
1 Bar Double
Orange 7
Blue 7 Double
1 Bar
Red 7 Double
5 Bar
Orange 7 Double
1 Bar
You can clearly see on his picture of the machine that the symbols below his are Bar, Bar, 5 Bar. For the first two symbols, you can also see the bottom of the 5s above them.
As for the second picture, you can tell from the reel strip layout that these are actually the Blue 7 Doubles because you can see the Orange 7s above and the 1 Bars below.
I feel sorry (slightly) for the guy, but he got the correct payout.
I don't know what you're looking at. I clearly see the bottom of 3 orange sevens and only plain single bars without the 5 below his 3 red sevens with double.
Quote: MaxPenI don't know what you're looking at. I clearly see the bottom of 3 orange sevens and only plain single bars without the 5 below his 3 red sevens with double.
This is for the second image, which is in this thread. I agree, they look red. But, when I look at the original reel strips, it is the Blue 7 Double which appears below the Orange 7 and above the 1 Bar.
Quote: CrystalMath
I feel sorry (slightly) for the guy, but he got the correct payout.
Was his expectation reasonable based on what he actually saw displayed?
Quote: 7crapsok.
nice observation and investigative work.
does this mean that ALL slot machine reels are exactly the same because this one is also exactly the same, by reels you found.
Did you find from the manufacture exactly how they should be?
I can’t guarantee they are all the same, but based on my experience testing IGT games at GLI, I would expect them to be the same. I also found several examples which were all identical. The ones I found were original strips that were for sale.
I think the casino should buy new reel strips so this doesn’t happen again.
I think this man has a good argument, but we didn’t see the reels in person and for all we know, he realized the potential problem and tried to take advantage of it.
Quote: FleaStiffWas his expectation reasonable based on what he actually saw displayed?
If the picture accurately displays what he saw, then it is reasonable to expect $50,000.
Quote: MaxPenWhy only 50K if he was betting 2 credits. I swear I must be looking at a different picture. Can you post the pic of the 5 bar symbols at the bottom or link it? I'm only seeing one pic in this whole thread.
This game only allows a 1 credit bet.
The other pic in this thread is not even the same machine, just another Double Gold with faded reel strips.
Here is another image taken from the video:
Quote: HullabalooThat second image was confusing, but has nothing to do with the dispute. And that's also why all the speculation about what each payoff is can't be taken from the 2nd one either. This one says it's a single coin, not 2.
Here is another image taken from the video:
I seriously have to side with the player after seeing the crystal clear image from the video. It looks like 3 double red 7's to me. :/
Quote: HullabalooThat second image was confusing, but has nothing to do with the dispute. And that's also why all the speculation about what each payoff is can't be taken from the 2nd one either. This one says it's a single coin, not 2.
Here is another image taken from the video:
This image makes it CrystalMath clear. Don't look at the winning line. Look at what's peeking at the bottom edge.
Bar. Bar. Yellow 5 top.
With the reel strips the same, all 3 of them should show the tops of the yellow 5, not just the last one, if the winning symbols are the same red 7.
So, you say it is not what the symbol color is, what is on the paytable,Quote: beachbumbabsWith the reel strips the same, all 3 of them should show the tops of the yellow 5, not just the last one, if the winning symbols are the same red 7.
but what the lines below and above is.
very interesting
the computer color (RGB) I get for the last pic from the video for the 3rd 7 is
242,0,45 (some Blue in it)
PURE RED = 245,0,0
that 7 is RED, no matter how they try to say it is not
pay da man da jackpot
Quote: beachbumbabsWith the reel strips the same, all 3 of them should show the tops of the yellow 5, not just the last one, if the winning symbols are the same red 7.
Are the strips the same? I didn't know that.
The thing that I found of interest, (perhaps without any merit), is that the final real looks like it is spliced just above it. I think that's normal as there has to be a slice somewhere, but does that change/confirm what that last real symbol truly is?
Quote: scolistWe've clearly got at least 2 conflicting pics being shown in this thread. How do we know if any of them are of the actual results of the game in dispute?
The image I posted came from the first video on page one of this thread, and at the time of that image being shown they stated it was a picture that the complainant took. That statement is at about .55 in the video.
Quote: HullabalooAre the strips the same? I didn't know that.
The thing that I found of interest, (perhaps without any merit), is that the final real looks like it is spliced just above it. I think that's normal as there has to be a slice somewhere, but does that change/confirm what that last real symbol truly is?
Most games don’t have the same strip for all 3 reels, but I found a handful of strips for this game and the three strips matched for all of them.
The splice above the third symbol is odd. Of all the reel strips I found, the Blue 7 is the first symbol.
Edit: I just watched a video of a high limit Double Gold, and it had the Red 7 Double as the first symbol on the reel. The reels were laid out exactly as I showed previously, with the exception of being offset.
Double Gold
I went through the video that CrystalMath posted just looking for where the splice is. On all three reels it had a bar above the splice with a double 7 below it.
But when you look at the image from the video the 2 strips on the left have a bar below and what appears to be a 5 bar above.
Quote: HullabalooI still don't know squat about how these work, but I did notice something that may or may not be of interest.
I went through the video that CrystalMath posted just looking for where the splice is. On all three reels it had a bar above the splice with a double 7 below it.
But when you look at the image from the video the 2 strips on the left have a bar below and what appears to be a 5 bar above.
That’s because the first two symbols are actually Orange 7 double. Only the last symbol is a Red 7 double.
