Nathan
Nathan
Joined: Sep 2, 2016
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April 22nd, 2017 at 5:46:15 PM permalink
I was shocked to hear that many people prefer better payouts and low to no free play over high free play and lowered payouts. I am the opposite. I'd choose a lot of free play and lowered payouts. Any time you don't have to put your own money to play is Ace. :)
Guy "won" less than his bet and the slot machine had the audacity to tell him he got a big win! SMH! Also, the Nintendo cartridge is so much more important than the Nintendo console. Without the cartridge, the Nintendo console is just a useless box.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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April 23rd, 2017 at 7:53:39 AM permalink
Bigger payouts.

You can take payouts with you.
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? Note that the same could be said for Religion. I.E. Religion is nothing more than organized superstition.
RealizeGaming
RealizeGaming
Joined: Aug 1, 2013
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April 23rd, 2017 at 8:14:02 AM permalink
Great question.

I'm not really sure what the correct balance would be since I actually like both the free games (time on the machine) and having a bigger payout. I like the fact that I can change games to accommodate what type of game I want to play at a given time.

I'm a huge fan of Mayan Chief with the extra rewards, but it seems to be very volatile in the wins and loses category. I like the idea that I can win hundreds of spins with wins doubled during that time frame, but I can easily go through several hundred spins and not win much of anything.

Overall, I think the answer to your questions will be split with an equal number of people liking each option.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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April 23rd, 2017 at 9:51:31 AM permalink
Are we talking free play the casino gives you? If so, it's not even close, MORE FREE PLAY.

The casinos rarely offer +EV games straight up, however with enough free play almost any game can become +EV, Even games like 6/5 job, bad slots and 6:5 BJ.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
mamat
mamat
Joined: Jul 13, 2015
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April 23rd, 2017 at 3:20:56 PM permalink
I might have answered differently two years ago.

Looser payouts (with lots of beatable bonus games) preferred (over more free play...even $5K-8K/month).
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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April 23rd, 2017 at 3:37:22 PM permalink
Quote: mamat

I might have answered differently two years ago.

Looser payouts (with lots of beatable bonus games) preferred (over more free play...even $5K-8K/month).

People have said AP is dead compared to the "old days". I don't think it's better or worse, it's just different now.
I do think it's probably much worse for solo lower level VP and slot grinders.

The good casino promos here in Vegas have declined dramatically over the years.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
BobDancer
BobDancer
Joined: Jun 22, 2013
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April 24th, 2017 at 1:42:20 PM permalink
In video poker, you can predict the EV of the game and get a reasonable approximation on the benefits.

With that information, to me it's the sum of the two that is important. I've played 98.5% games with more than 2% in up-front money. That's quite acceptable. I've stayed away from 99.7% games where there are no benefits at all. That's unacceptable.

Variance can be a factor if you're near the limits of your physical or psychological bankroll. Clearly some people handle variance better than others.
InTimeForSpace1
InTimeForSpace1
Joined: Apr 1, 2017
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April 24th, 2017 at 3:39:44 PM permalink
This is an either-or question. What about neither?

One can gamble in the now with his money; the other, in the long run with her time. But, they who can balance both, and avoid addiction, would have a much better time for their money at something, like scuba diving, which could challenge their reservedness.
Believers are the ones who keep at it long after they've been told it can't be done. On the other hand, the real experts shouldn't care about the crackpots. But, if the wrong answer begs the question, then the wrong question begs the answer.
mamat
mamat
Joined: Jul 13, 2015
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April 24th, 2017 at 4:40:59 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

People have said AP is dead compared to the "old days". I don't think it's better or worse, it's just different now.
I do think it's probably much worse for solo lower level VP and slot grinders.

The good casino promos here in Vegas have declined dramatically over the years.

Lower-level slots declined from 2009-2013 (and were much better before 2009 from what I've heard), but then 2014-2017 have much improved. Four 2016 games have taken the lower-level slot grinders by storm (I've hit jackpots on two of the four. Five-figure payouts are possible, but very rare.).

----
I didn't know squat about slots/VP in 1990-2007, and only played tables. Started playing VP in 2007 (when I put $1 in a machine at the Mirage, and hit Aces for $160). Didn't learn about bonus slots until 2009 (End of the "Indiana Jones" and "Star Wars" era. Beginning of UX).

The level of competition in slots in Vegas in 2017 is insanely high compared to 2009.

In the last two years visiting Vegas, the only way I made a decent daily rate ($700/day) was one visit when I drove to small casinos at weird hours in 2015. Only found 9 +EV plays in 40 casinos (not counting UX, 2016 games weren't out yet). There were about 10 even-EV games I played for fun...

In my Vegas visits now, I play more like a typical recreational gambler. I'm there to have fun, and usually lose a few thousand, or maybe break-even. I like to people-watch at the big casinos, and don't usually drive to the small ones.

Since I've been traveling around the US since early 2000s, I started looking for bonus slots in 2010 outside Vegas, and I found many easier situations. No place was as competitive as Vegas-circa-2010 (much less Vegas-circa-2017).

-----
Promotions outside Vegas:

West coast & east coast, there are 10+ casinos offering $5K+/month Free Play (regularly, without any special promotions).
One casino offers close to $10K/week Free Play (Very hard to maintain) - I've never tried for big mailers here.
Near Vegas, Arizona & California are both good.

Some casinos do $50K-100K giveaways every week with free cars.
And $1 million giveaways every year.

Why so much compared to Vegas?
Casinos are farther apart, and competing for business.
More money gambled in Indian casinos over the years (I think it's about 40-50% of total US gambling, last time I read a report).
Indian casinos competing for locals, who have a very good chance of giving the money back.

There is some crackdown on people visiting with Vegas IDs, and on heavy VP players trying to game mailers.
In 2010-2017, it still feels like casinos are finding their way through the balance of "good promotions/mailers" and "marketing that's too AP'able".

Some casinos have dramatically raised their FP offers, after nearby casinos raised theirs.
...so some casinos with bigger offers, are not experienced with them.

Some casinos adjusted their monitoring of big offers 5-10 years ago (e.g., FP offers might be recinded within 1-2 visits, if play is not appropriate), but others are newbies (and it takes them 1-5 years to catch up).

Other casinos reduced the size of their mailers 2X-4X (rare, 90% have been increasing in last 5 years). Or they steadfastly stuck with smaller amounts ($25-50/week max), choosing to compete by having better food or some other benefits.
Last edited by: mamat on Apr 24, 2017
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
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April 24th, 2017 at 6:24:52 PM permalink
Right now, better FP. I've been running badddddd on the quarter JoB/NSUD. -8k in just over two weeks. I want to puke.... :-(~~~
"And that's the bottom lineeeee, cuz Stone Cold said so!"

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