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Wizard
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Wizard
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July 31st, 2016 at 1:21:04 PM permalink
I've been asked for 14 years to update my Las Vegas slot machine survey. Now the big boss is asking about it.

As you may know, I used par sheets to do the 2002 survey. The games I surveyed are very hard to find any longer. It would be almost out of the question to repeat the survey the way I did it before.

So, what I'm thinking of doing is taking a blend of video poker and video keno to gauge how loose the "slots" are at any given casino. For those not familiar with the terminology, in the business the word a "slot" refers to just about anything that plugs in. If you want to refer to things with spinning reels, you would say "reels."

I also feel very strongly in the correlation between how loose/tight a casino sets its video poker and video keno to its reels. In other words, I can say with a straight face that a survey based on video keno and video poker would be about as accurate as the 2002 survey.

My question is would you respect a survey like my 2002 one if it were based on video keno and video poker but presented as a ranking of machines in general? Keep in mind the survey is not meant for extremely skilled players but the recreational player who will plop down anywhere and play anything.

I welcome all questions and comments. Thank you.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
blackhole
blackhole
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July 31st, 2016 at 1:34:35 PM permalink
If the survey is for the recreational player who will plop down anywhere and play anything; why would they need any survey about any game? Couldn't a concerned player about percentage holds just read the monthly listings in magazines like Casino Player?
Wizard
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Wizard
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July 31st, 2016 at 1:54:14 PM permalink
Quote: blackhole

If the survey is for the recreational player who will plop down anywhere and play anything; why would they need any survey about any game? Couldn't a concerned player about percentage holds just read the monthly listings in magazines like Casino Player?



Maybe such a player would at least appreciate a general list. For example, I don't shop around for cheap gas, but I would be interested to know any generalizations, like Shell tends to be cheaper than Exxon.

Casino Player publishes only groupings for Nevada, like the Strip, downtown, and "balance of county."
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
JohnnyQ
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July 31st, 2016 at 3:18:03 PM permalink
I think a smaller but very accurate survey of $ 1 slots on selected properties along the Strip would be very enlightening. As far as getting "par" sheets, I have no idea how you got them before and how you might be able to get them again.
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gamerfreak
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July 31st, 2016 at 3:43:46 PM permalink
Generalizations like you mentioned sound good.

For example, I'd like to know how much tighter a brand new game like Game of Thrones compares to a generic 3-5 reel of the same denomination.
vegas
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July 31st, 2016 at 8:03:09 PM permalink
How do you know a casino that offered good VP and keno pay tables would also offer good slots? Maybe they use slots to get the revenue lost by VP and Keno. It could be misleading to say the slots are loose just because the other games are loose.
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Wizard
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Wizard
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July 31st, 2016 at 8:14:21 PM permalink
Quote: gamerfreak

I'd like to know how much tighter a brand new game like Game of Thrones compares to a generic 3-5 reel of the same denomination.



Slots tied to a TV show or movie tend to pay around 85%, regardless of where the casino is. Generic slots tend to pay anywhere from 87% to 92%. So the difference will vary, but you're almost always better off to play a generic game.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Wizard
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Wizard
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July 31st, 2016 at 8:15:55 PM permalink
Quote: vegas

How do you know a casino that offered good VP and keno pay tables would also offer good slots? Maybe they use slots to get the revenue lost by VP and Keno. It could be misleading to say the slots are loose just because the other games are loose.



At the time I did the 2002 survey, the casinos at the top were the same ones with liberal video poker. Likewise those at the bottom were stingy with video poker. I didn't pay attention to video keno at the time. However, your point is well taken. I hate to make statements about correlation without hard proof.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
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July 31st, 2016 at 10:01:15 PM permalink
Could you find out which slots have the lowest maximum return, then find out who has the highest percentage of them?

Reality sucks where penny machines from ten or more years ago were set where hl dollar slots are now. Saw an advertisement at the Meadows where they stated having "the loosest slots. Period." Then as you stated, saw almost all of their VP job and ddb 6/5. Next shocker was seeing Three Kings, which Micky Crim vouched here could be 92% max, in their HL room in dime denomination with a min. bet $2.50 and max bet $12.50. I find this kind of sickening such high bets with not as good of odds as I would expect to be fair.

Which brings me to another problem. Rivers is not nearly as bad Meadows with quarter VP 8/5, except the bar worse, but they don't have many machines available, so what does that mean in such a survey?
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Wizard
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August 1st, 2016 at 9:29:29 AM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

Could you find out which slots have the lowest maximum return, then find out who has the highest percentage of them?



No. In Nevada casinos only need to stay about 75%. They have to report actual return percentages to Gaming, but that information gets averaged together with other casinos for reports to the public.

The more I think about this, I think I'm going to do separate surveys for video poker and video keno and call them as such.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.

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