fountainfiend
fountainfiend
Joined: Jul 12, 2013
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July 12th, 2013 at 7:44:41 AM permalink
Hi all,

Long time lurker, but I had a question I haven't quite seen before, so decided to join up. I have always been a 'smart' gambler, playing mostly full-pay VP and Craps, with the occasional Blackjack, but have never played a slot machine until recently. We had an offer at a local casino for a few hundred in free play, so we went and the full pay video poker machines were full, but we wanted to see how much value we could extract from the offer and then take off. So, we decided to play a Double Diamond Wheel of Fortune machine, which actually turned out to be pretty lucrative, and ended up a few hundred dollars in real money walking out over the inital free play.

I am heading to Las Vegas next week, and I thought it might be fun to play a slot machine, but given that I don't have any idea of what the payback is on any of them, what is a 'smart' gambler to do? (Other than not play them at all, which I totally agree is the smartest move. Just something entertaining to try.). Any ideas on how to find the 'best' payback at a Strip casino? (Also realize, that the strip is going to be worse than most other places in LV.)

Thanks!
DeMango
DeMango
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July 12th, 2013 at 7:50:50 AM permalink
I have that problem with a casino in Biloxi. Despite only playing table games, the offers they send me are ALWAYS slot free play. So I usually also do the double diamond thing at a level that gets me off my feet for 15 minutes or so. But as a smart gambler the only other sitdown is at a JOB machine. Again close to an even game to get a breather after a lengthy stand at a craps table.
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
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July 12th, 2013 at 8:14:41 AM permalink
Check out any of the threads on the WMS Progressives or on Quick Hits. I have to get ready for work right now, but I'll link you to some tomorrow if you have not found them by then.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
ewjones080
ewjones080
Joined: Feb 22, 2012
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July 12th, 2013 at 8:16:01 AM permalink
It's always been my understanding that the higher the denomination, the higher the payback. A penny slot might pay back 80% but a $5 slot might pay back at 99%. And whatever you play, best to play max credits.

There's lots of things I've heard that I suspect are myths, like slots near the door are looser/tighter, slots on the ends of banks are looser/tighter.. Don't know if there's anything to it.
Mission146
Mission146
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July 12th, 2013 at 8:20:01 AM permalink
Quote: ewjones080

It's always been my understanding that the higher the denomination, the higher the payback. A penny slot might pay back 80% but a $5 slot might pay back at 99%. And whatever you play, best to play max credits.



1.) True enough about the high-denoms, but only a Progressive slot can have a return at 100+%, with some very few exceptions.

2.) I also recommend looking at the paytable. They are few, but some slot machines have what I term a, "Perfectly graduated payout," which simply means that there is no benefit to Max Betting. However, some machines require Max Bets for Bonus Games and other features (even if the payout is otherwise perfectly graduated), so make sure to look out for that.

The perfectly graduated payout machines with no penalty for not Max betting will typically be single-line, three-line or five-line machines with no frills.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
Joined: Jan 26, 2012
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July 12th, 2013 at 8:29:19 AM permalink
Since it's your first post, you should go play a flashy game at Venetian like Wizard of Oz.

Since you said long time lurker, really whatever you do go as big as you can denomination wise, but try to get 20-40 spins.
If you go too big, the chance of a total bomb is too great. Just diversify a bit to get some spins in, then quit, and don't feed if it doesn't work out. Be prepared for failure and play it first before you start losing money.
I am a robot.
ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy
Joined: Jun 22, 2011
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July 12th, 2013 at 10:01:34 AM permalink
Quote: ewjones080

It's always been my understanding that the higher the denomination, the higher the payback. A penny slot might pay back 80% but a $5 slot might pay back at 99%.


There seems to be one exception: dollar Megabucks machines don't pay back as much as other dollar machines. (At least, that's the impression I get from the statewide data, which I may be reading wrong.)
Otherwise, there's an explanation: in order for the casino to make $1 on a slot from 100 credits played, a dollar slot would have to have a 99% payback, a quarter slot would have to have a 96% payback, and a nickel slot would have to have an 80% payback.

Also, I have found that the slots downtown pay off better than the ones on the Strip, just as you're more likely to find full-pay VP downtown...and I have even heard stories that they have blackjack where a blackjack pays 3-2!
onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
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July 12th, 2013 at 10:06:19 AM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

There seems to be one exception: dollar Megabucks machines don't pay back as much as other dollar machines. (At least, that's the impression I get from the statewide data, which I may be reading wrong.)
Otherwise, there's an explanation: in order for the casino to make $1 on a slot from 100 credits played, a dollar slot would have to have a 99% payback, a quarter slot would have to have a 96% payback, and a nickel slot would have to have an 80% payback.

Also, I have found that the slots downtown pay off better than the ones on the Strip, just as you're more likely to find full-pay VP downtown...and I have even heard stories that they have blackjack where a blackjack pays 3-2!


Megabucks used to be 89% and has since been changed to 86% with the progressive structure neutered which effectively makes the record jackpots realistically unbreakable.
I am a robot.
terapined
terapined
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July 12th, 2013 at 12:43:53 PM permalink
I was listening to gambling with an edge radio show earlier this year and they had a AP slot player on the show. He looks for the progressive jackpot slot machines and if he thikks the machine will pay over 100% due to the progressive, he plays the machine hard.
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
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July 12th, 2013 at 2:25:37 PM permalink
Quote: ewjones080


There's lots of things I've heard that I suspect are myths, like slots near the door are looser/tighter, slots on the ends of banks are looser/tighter.. Don't know if there's anything to it.



Years ago the casinos actually did do things like this -- "seed the floor" with looser machines in visible areas to generate interest.

But the latest thing I heard was that the "looser machines" are now put in the back of the casino to force players to walk through the casino to get to them.

But I haven't played slots in years except for the occassional $20 in Megabucks.
rxwine
rxwine
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July 12th, 2013 at 3:08:09 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Years ago the casinos actually did do things like this -- "seed the floor" with looser machines in visible areas to generate interest.



Although the common wisdom of doing so may not hold up, it still seems common wisdom would be to put better paybacks in visible sight of crowds, instead of stopping the practice. Why stop? Except if it doesn't really work.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
tringlomane
tringlomane
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July 12th, 2013 at 3:13:04 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

Although the common wisdom of doing so may not hold up, it still seems common wisdom would be to put better paybacks in visible sight of crowds, instead of stopping the practice. Why stop? Except if it doesn't really work.



It probably works less than they expected it to. I have no casino management experience though.
onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
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July 12th, 2013 at 3:18:59 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson


But the latest thing I heard was that the "looser machines" are now put in the back of the casino to force players to walk through the casino to get to them.


This I doubt. Usually they want these people who wander there to suffer and lose it all with nobody around to stop them.
It depends a lot on the architecture of the place.
I am a robot.
Mission146
Mission146
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July 13th, 2013 at 6:28:58 AM permalink
Quote: fountainfiend

Hi all,

Long time lurker, but I had a question I haven't quite seen before, so decided to join up. I have always been a 'smart' gambler, playing mostly full-pay VP and Craps, with the occasional Blackjack, but have never played a slot machine until recently. We had an offer at a local casino for a few hundred in free play, so we went and the full pay video poker machines were full, but we wanted to see how much value we could extract from the offer and then take off. So, we decided to play a Double Diamond Wheel of Fortune machine, which actually turned out to be pretty lucrative, and ended up a few hundred dollars in real money walking out over the inital free play.

I am heading to Las Vegas next week, and I thought it might be fun to play a slot machine, but given that I don't have any idea of what the payback is on any of them, what is a 'smart' gambler to do? (Other than not play them at all, which I totally agree is the smartest move. Just something entertaining to try.). Any ideas on how to find the 'best' payback at a Strip casino? (Also realize, that the strip is going to be worse than most other places in LV.)

Thanks!



Okay, here is the WMS thread:

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/slots/11115-nice-little-jackpot-on-a-wongable-slot-from-wms/

Quick Hits was also spread across a few threads, but this first post in this thread is a good summary on how it works:

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/slots/12930-quick-hits-simulator/
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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July 13th, 2013 at 7:08:51 AM permalink
Quote: DeMango

I have that problem with a casino in Biloxi. Despite only playing table games, the offers they send me are ALWAYS slot free play.

ALL casinos seem to do this. I think they even refer to their mailers as slot mailers and that is where the focus is. Giving their slot players various inducements such as free play, meals, etc. I think only the Silverton gives its craps players automatic slot points as well. We all know the free play and buffet deals are just to get us "in the door" usually on days and times that are deemed likely to be slow in the casino.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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July 13th, 2013 at 7:16:02 AM permalink
Quote: ewjones080

It's always been my understanding that the higher the denomination, the higher the payback. A penny slot might pay back 80% but a $5 slot might pay back at 99%. And whatever you play, best to play max credits.

In general that is true. You can look up the official stats from the Gaming Board but they are grouped by general geography, not individual casino. You can see that certain areas of town are consistently better for the player... but if you have a wife who wants "The Strip" then high yielding slots on the Boulder Strip are of no use to you at all.

Quote: ewjones080

There's lots of things I've heard that I suspect are myths, like slots near the door are looser/tighter, slots on the ends of banks are looser/tighter.. Don't know if there's anything to it.

Pure myth. Even if the machines started out that way, it would not long endure the constant "dance" dictated by maintenance, repair, crowd flow experiments, etc. ALL casinos try to provide a mix of machines so as to get and maintain a mix of customers and avoid any one type of player or hogger. This attempt to have a "mix" of machines would destroy any "end of an aisle" nonsense. It "sounds" sensible for a casino to maximize the effects of a noisy jackpot by putting the machine where everyone can see and hear the noise and the hollering, but in reality the casino is more concerned about crowd flow and maintenance than wringing every benefit out of each jackpot.
MIXslots
MIXslots
Joined: Aug 2, 2022
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August 2nd, 2022 at 8:34:59 AM permalink
I liked the slot 🎰 "Fisher King"
For 40 free spins, I managed to win 💶 2240 🤑
MrV
MrV
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August 2nd, 2022 at 10:25:00 AM permalink
A lady I know is convinced that the best time to play slots is in the morning.

She says the casinos tighten the slots for evening play when more people are there and then always loosen them up for morning play when fewer people are present.

I suspect she's really a clueless, desperate ploppie masquerading as a font of wisdom.
"What, me worry?"
smoothgrh
smoothgrh
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August 2nd, 2022 at 12:53:17 PM permalink
Based on the reported percentages, the best low denomination is nickel slots.
Last edited by: smoothgrh on Aug 2, 2022

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