hook3670
hook3670
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January 22nd, 2013 at 12:09:15 PM permalink
I understand that a Class II machine differs from a Class III machine in that the Class II acts like a bingo game and when you push the button the outcome is determined and the the reels and outcome is just for show. A Class III machine has a RNG instead. However, isn't the outcome of the Class III also determined the minute you push the button and whatever comes up is the outcome from whatever numbers came from the RNG when it was pushed? I just don't see much of a difference unless I am totally missing something(which is entirely possible!) Also, are all electronic table games classified as Class III machines?
rdw4potus
rdw4potus
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January 22nd, 2013 at 12:13:24 PM permalink
I think the biggest difference comes in the user-determined features. Like a bonus where you select 1 of 3 symbols to determine your prize. On a class III machine, you really can get any one of the three prizes. On a class II machine, you WILL get the pre-determined prize.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
TIMSPEED
TIMSPEED
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January 22nd, 2013 at 1:11:03 PM permalink
Quote: rdw4potus

I think the biggest difference comes in the user-determined features. Like a bonus where you select 1 of 3 symbols to determine your prize. On a class III machine, you really can get any one of the three prizes. On a class II machine, you WILL get the pre-determined prize.


I've often wondered about that...
My freeplay comes in the form of a "match two amounts" and is always between $175-$1000...in the many years I've been getting it, I've NEVER got more than $175...(and I get it twice a month)
Gambling calls to me...like this ~> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nap37mNSmQ
Nareed
Nareed
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January 22nd, 2013 at 1:18:56 PM permalink
Quote: rdw4potus

I think the biggest difference comes in the user-determined features. Like a bonus where you select 1 of 3 symbols to determine your prize. On a class III machine, you really can get any one of the three prizes. On a class II machine, you WILL get the pre-determined prize.



That would be both interesting and, alas, thoroughly irrelevant. Sorry. See, in both cases the machines ultimately will pay back a certain percentage on average, regardless of the specifics peculiar to each class. Also, you can't tell the difference.

Where it makes a difference is in VP. In a mahcine where you really play, the payback is a function of the pay table and the player's skill (memorizing a strategy table is a skill). ON one of the rpedetermined machines, how you play doesn't matter.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
hook3670
hook3670
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January 22nd, 2013 at 1:23:29 PM permalink
So on regular slot machines it is irrelevant of they are Class II or III, but it does matter in VP?
tringlomane
tringlomane
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January 22nd, 2013 at 1:34:56 PM permalink
Quote: hook3670

So on regular slot machines it is irrelevant of they are Class II or III, but it does matter in VP?



Yes, on class II machines VP strategy is worthless. You can hold on to garbage, and either a "genie" will convert your hand to what you were supposed to win or a "match card" will award what you were supposed to win. When playing these machines in Alabama (a class II jurisdiction) for tiny amounts of money, I would intentionally hold garbage to make the "genie" appear...lol

Also the only slot jackpot I've won is on a class II machine (Texas Tea for $200). I hit some random bingo pattern where I needed ~22 hits in like 48 calls or something. The result appeared as 5 Texas Tea symbols like it would on a class III machine. If one had the math skills/inclination, he or she would be able to calculate the payback of the machine as it listed all the bingo patterns it would pay out.
rdw4potus
rdw4potus
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January 22nd, 2013 at 1:52:57 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

That would be both interesting and, alas, thoroughly irrelevant. Sorry. See, in both cases the machines ultimately will pay back a certain percentage on average, regardless of the specifics peculiar to each class. Also, you can't tell the difference.



Many of the bingo-based games actually have a little digital bingo board displayed. You really can watch it play a little 1-second-long bingo game to determine if any winning combinations are present. It's pretty snarky, really:-)
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
tringlomane
tringlomane
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January 22nd, 2013 at 5:03:29 PM permalink
Quote: rdw4potus

Many of the bingo-based games actually have a little digital bingo board displayed. You really can watch it play a little 1-second-long bingo game to determine if any winning combinations are present. It's pretty snarky, really:-)



Yeah, and at the casino I was at, you also were allowed to change your bingo card between spins. I always picked one with 69 in the corner...lol
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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January 22nd, 2013 at 6:54:18 PM permalink
Quote: hook3670

I understand that a Class II machine differs from a Class III machine in that the Class II acts like a bingo game and when you push the button the outcome is determined and the the reels and outcome is just for show. A Class III machine has a RNG instead. However, isn't the outcome of the Class III also determined the minute you push the button and whatever comes up is the outcome from whatever numbers came from the RNG when it was pushed? I just don't see much of a difference unless I am totally missing something(which is entirely possible!) Also, are all electronic table games classified as Class III machines?


Not necessarily. Here's the relevant law:
http://www.nigc.gov/Laws_Regulations/Indian_Gaming_Regulatory_Act.aspx

There have been many cases decided on what games are/are not class II. The NIGC has a whole list of them. Read those for a clearer picture.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
Ardent1
Ardent1
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January 23rd, 2013 at 8:12:25 AM permalink
Quote: hook3670

I understand that a Class II machine differs from a Class III machine in that the Class II acts like a bingo game and when you push the button the outcome is determined and the the reels and outcome is just for show. A Class III machine has a RNG instead. However, isn't the outcome of the Class III also determined the minute you push the button and whatever comes up is the outcome from whatever numbers came from the RNG when it was pushed? I just don't see much of a difference unless I am totally missing something(which is entirely possible!) Also, are all electronic table games classified as Class III machines?



The answer is simple -- if you play a class II video poker device, and you threw away a dealt quad (or RF), you will STILL end up winning on that specific hand, and based on posts on this website, your winnings is comparable or the same via a bonus card or a genie as the original dealt hand. That is to say if your bingo card (or pull tab) was destined to win, you will WIN no matter what you do on the flop.

Try that on a Class III machine. If you threw away a dealt quad, you just urinated away a huge winning hand!

Think of a Class II machine game like a pull tab. The outcome on the pull tab is immutable. Image everytime you hit the spin button on a Class II device, it is akin to buying a pull-tab with replacement as if the pool of pull-tab is a constant. (With physical pull-tabs, it is done without replacement.) The randomness aspect is picking a winning combination out of the fixed pool of pull tabs.

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