Nice little jackpot on a wongable slot from WMS
Quote: Ardent1randomperson, you clearly don't understand video poker based on your comment.
First, most pro's can play, on a sustained basis between 1,000 to 1,200 hph under the right conditions with the speed set to turbo mode. I've hit 1,500 hph on a sustained basis on a single line machine for 3 straight hours (it was over 1,500 hph based on my coin-in).
Second, let's say you don't hit the RF, then the 50,000 to 75,000 hands would be a great approximation of the game without the RF due to the Law of Large Numbers, which more than trumps the CLT concept.
Third, today we have VP with multiple lines and if you play the Moody's patent, then with a base hph speed of 700 hph at 10-play, that is 7,000 hphs. I am aware of multi-line VP without any covariance, so that same 7,000 hands are INDEPENDENT hands and doesn't suffer from the dealt hand effect.
When I was younger I would laugh in your face since you understand so little about VP, however, I am older and wiser now and I just feel sorry that you would expose your VP ignorance on a public message board.
Cheers
PS i've played a lot of VP games including one where the RF cycle is about 12,000 hands.
Ill run some simulations to show you are wrong. Ill report back later. You are wrong about the ex royal rate of convergence. You are also wrong to exclude royals because there are events as rare on a standard slot machine as a royal on vp.
Quote: VenthusQuote: 100xOddswished there was a simple webapp to calculate +ev on these machines.
Well, I've been using a simple Excel spreadsheet for this on my phone. Under normal conditions, the only numbers that have to be changed are those in blue.
Progressive payout rates are based on the numbers at http://www.arcade-history.com. The current payout rate is the minimum for Triple Blazing Sevens. Existing progressive size is just a test. The base progressive values are from Mission146.
Note: The sheet on this link is editable. Not responsible for changes other people make. I recommend saving it to your own system if you want to use it. http://sdrv.ms/Uh0Rt4
Ed. Based on the numbers you gave, it's at approximately +7.7 from whatever the base is.
omg.. never thought of excel on my phone. THX!
Quote: Ardent1randomperson, you clearly don't understand video poker based on your comment.
First, most pro's can play, on a sustained basis between 1,000 to 1,200 hph under the right conditions with the speed set to turbo mode. I've hit 1,500 hph on a sustained basis on a single line machine for 3 straight hours (it was over 1,500 hph based on my coin-in).
Second, let's say you don't hit the RF, then the 50,000 to 75,000 hands would be a great approximation of the game without the RF due to the Law of Large Numbers, which more than trumps the CLT concept.
Third, today we have VP with multiple lines and if you play the Moody's patent, then with a base hph speed of 700 hph at 10-play, that is 7,000 hphs. I am aware of multi-line VP without any covariance, so that same 7,000 hands are INDEPENDENT hands and doesn't suffer from the dealt hand effect.
When I was younger I would laugh in your face since you understand so little about VP, however, I am older and wiser now and I just feel sorry that you would expose your VP ignorance on a public message board.
Cheers
PS i've played a lot of VP games including one where the RF cycle is about 12,000 hands.
I ran a quick 100 50,000 hand sample paths for 9/6 ddb. The median sample path was 98.6%. The 5th percentile was 95.1% and the 95th was 104.5%. Awaiting your apology, thanks.
Quote: 100xOddsYesterday i went into the High Limits area.
bank of four $1 Quickhits linked. (max bet = $15)...
It's really tough for me to say because usually slots in that denomination have a better base ER than penny slots, however, there are a ton of variables:
1.) The machine was probably not Quick Hits Platinum, it may have been, but I've only ever seen that at the $0.01 denomination.
2.) We don't know what the base ER is, you could assume jurisdictional average at the $1.00/denom, if such is available, but:
3.) We don't know if that includes average increases to the Progressives, and that's if you want to assume average jurisdictional payouts at that denomination. We know the Base ER for the $0.01/denom Quick Hits Platinum has nothing to do with the Progressives, but I don't know anything about any other QH machine in that regard.
AND:
4.) If it is not a Quick Hits Platinum machine, we don't know that the Base Pays relate to the Progressive Probabilities in the same way. Simply stated, we don't know what the Progressive probabilities are for 5-9 QH, so it's also impossible to make an assumption about the probabilities. The ER of each Progressive, of course, is pursuant to those probabilties, so better not to make an assumption at all...
The other problem is that Five & Six QuickHits seemed to have been hit recently.
ASSUMPTIONS
If you really want to assume a certain Base Return on the machine, and assume that the Progressive Probabilties are the same, then I can perform a fairly simple ER-Based run down to determine how many pulls you would have gotten to determine a general idea of the probability of you hitting it within that amount of spins.
Quote: 100xOddsYesterday i went into the High Limits area.
bank of four $1 Quickhits linked. (max bet = $15)
5qh = 200
6qh=1200
7qh=7200!!!!!! looked at the rules for 7qh to double check. base = 100x = $1500.
Here's a thought, I could just divide by 10 and do my difference calculation, of course that is based on the $0.01/denom Base ER.
$5.00 * 1/230 = 0.021739130434782608
$45.00 * 1/1329 = 0.03386004514672686
$570 * 1/9327 = 0.061112898037954326
You're going to be adding about 11.671% to the ER of a Quick Hits Platinum machine at the $0.01/denom, so you're still going to be in negative territory (depending on 8/9 QH...but they'd have to be REALLY high) at a 88.05% Base for a total of 99.721% ER. You'd be in positive territory on any other Quick Hits Platinum machine.
I want to strongly emphasize that this is based on the probabilities for a $0.01/denom Quick Hits Platinum machine as well as the Base Returns. The Return % is likely to be better on a $1.00/denom machine, but I have literally NO IDEA WHATSOEVER what the Progressive probabilities are.
Quote: Mission146The machine was probably not Quick Hits Platinum, it may have been, but I've only ever seen that at the $0.01 denomination.
I've seen a 5c one at MGM Grand (near the lobby). I haven't seen anything higher, though (not that I have looked that hard)
Quote: onenickelmiracleA couple things about the WMS G+ progressives. The way the machines increment the jackpot meters are all different. I suspect it is linked to the payback percentage or else why would they be different from casino to casino and there is no mention of the formula in the help sections like machines used to have? So, they can be changed without anyone knowing clearly it has been done. 96% is probably a good proportion of the guaranteed jackpots to have a positive expectation.
I don't think it's quite that high because my formula was based upon the (assumed) expected return on the Base Game and how long it should take for the Progressive to hit the, "Must-Hit," point based on that.
It seems that what you are suggesting is that the Progressive increase percentage based on a win is variable. If that is the case, then yes, you would need to figure out a new advantage point as that is going to be incumbent on when the machine, "Must-Hit," which is a point that one will hit in relation to the expected return percentage (expressed as a decimal) * the amount bet * the percentage of a win that gets added to the Progressive Meter. In other words, the only assumption that you really have to make is what the base ER is discluding the Progressives, and then a couple wins should be enough to establish how much you are adding to the Progressives in terms of percentage of a win, and then you just do the same formula as before replacing the variable of how much a win increases the Progressive Meter, by percentage, if applicable.
Quote: Mission1461.) The machine was probably not Quick Hits Platinum, it may have been, but I've only ever seen that at the $0.01 denomination.
i can now verify that it's a $1 Quickhits Platinum machine. (i knew it was a QH machine, just didnt know what flavor.)
7QH = $9000 (base = $1500)
but 5qh and 6qh were near minimums. :(
also, if 6QH > $1200 then i need to subtract 30% from EV for it because of W2G?
(base = $750)
heck, i need to subtract 30% from 7QH also because of W2G?
Quote: 100xOddsi can now verify that it's a $1 Quickhits Platinum machine. (i knew it was a QH machine, just didnt know what flavor.)
7QH = $9000 (base = $1500)
but 5qh and 6qh were near minimums. :(
also, if 6QH > $1200 then i need to subtract 30% from EV for it because of W2G?
(base = $750)
heck, i need to subtract 30% from 7QH also because of W2G?
I suppose that depends on how you look at it. If that's the case, and you know the probabilities, then you would always subtract that from the ER of any hit that puts you at $1,200+, but you can offset that with losses, of course.
Quote: Mission146I suppose that depends on how you look at it. If that's the case, and you know the probabilities, then you would always subtract that from the ER of any hit that puts you at $1,200+, but you can offset that with losses, of course.
Careful, there are many states that don't allow you to offset W2G income with losses. You also need to itemize if you'll deduct losses federally.
And, a bit more specific, does anybody have any insight as to how it works for machines that render multiple bets at once? (Hypothetically speaking, something like a craps machine with 2500 on the table and a 500$ 7. Your win is big enough for a W2G, but it got effectively nullified from the losses on that resolution.)
5qh=200 (base=150)
6qh=1100 (base=750)
that's +9% to the EV!
How much $ does one need to have a 50% chance of hitting that 7QH?
Quote: 100xOddsok.. 7QH on the $1 Platinum machine is now at $10k! (base = $1500)
5qh=200 (base=150)
6qh=1100 (base=750)
that's +9% to the EV!
How much $ does one need to have a 50% chance of hitting that 7QH?
I thought this would be complicated, but it's actually not too bad.
Okay, from this:
http://www.arcade-history.com/?n=black-and-white-sevens-quick-hit-platinum&page=detail&id=32113
We know that 7QH should hit 1 out of 9,327 games.
The probability of it not hitting is 9,326/9327, and we're looking for the halfway point, so:
(1/9327) * x = .50
x = .5/(1/9327)
x = 4664 (Spins)
If you plan to make 4,664 spins, then you will put 4,664 * 15 = $69,960 in spins through the machine.
If we assume a Base Return of 88.05% (The lowest, and unlikely, given the denom)
$69960 * .8805 = $61599.78 which is the amount that should be returned on those spins. (Discluding any Progressives)
You would also keep in mind, that during this time you are expected to hit the 5QH 4664/230 = 20.2 Times and the 6QH 4664/1329 = 3.51 Times
The problem is that the +ER you are getting from:
6QH 35 * 1/1329 = .02633559066967645 or 2.634%
and
5QH 5 * 1/230 = 0.021739130434782608 or 2.174%
The total added ER is 9.113 + 2.634 + 2.174 = 13.921%
CONCLUSION
Basically, you can assume whichever of the five different payout percentages you want, but if you assume the worst at 88.05%, then your total ER is 101.971.
You're really eating it on the 6QH compared to before, 2.634% - 3.386% = -0.752% compared to where that was last time.
The other problem you are going to have, if you assume the 88.05% Base ER is that 5QH drops your +ER down to 11.747%, which puts you at a total ER of 99.797% and at a disadvantage again, 6QH even moreso. Theoretically, you should end up playing this machine at an advantage some of the time and at a disadvantage some of the time, it would take me forever to break that down...and even if I could...I would have to know the EXACT increases to each of those three Progressives, per spin.
Let's verify that overall +ER really quick: 69960 * (.13921 + .8805) = $71338.91
Quote: Mission146I thought this would be complicated, but it's actually not too bad.
Okay, from this:
http://www.arcade-history.com/?n=black-and-white-sevens-quick-hit-platinum&page=detail&id=32113
We know that 7QH should hit 1 out of 9,327 games.
The probability of it not hitting is 9,326/9327, and we're looking for the halfway point, so:
(1/9327) * x = .50
x = .5/(1/9327)
x = 4664 (Spins)
If you plan to make 4,664 spins, then you will put 4,664 * 15 = $69,960 in spins through the machine.
On the other hand, if you make 9327 spins, then the expectation is that you hit it once.
You will put 9327 * 15 = 139,905 through the machine.
The ER of 139905 in total bets on a Base ER of 88.05% is 139905 * .8805 = $123186.3525
The ER including those Progressives is $139905 * (.13921 + .8805) = $142662.52755
You still have the same problem if you assume a Base ER of 88.05%, which is that you should be playing at an advantage at times and at times you will not be playing at an advantage, and the above formula assumes a consistent advantage of +1.971% acroos all 9,327 of those spins.
If you assume a Base ER of 92.09% or better, then you are always at some kind of an advantage until the 7QH hits by virtue of that +9.11% alone.
It just depends on what you want to assume. If you want to assume that the Base ER is 88.05%, then you are going to need 11.95% in ER off of 7QH alone to have you always at 100% (or better) until that hits. (Technically, it's less, because the Progressive Meter cannot be at the Base Pay for 5QH and 6QH simultaneously if every bet raises both of them)
Anyway: x * 1/9327 = .1105
x = .1105/(1/9327)
x = 1030.6335
We have to multiply that by 10, so $10,306.34 is the necessary increase to the Progressive on a Base ER of 88.05% to bring it up to 100% alone for 7QH.
1030.6335 * 1/9327 = 0.11049999999999999
but back to my orig question.. how much do i need to bring with me to have a 50% chance of hitting?
$69,960 in spins through the machine is how much?
Quote: 100xOddsso i need 7qh to be at $11806+ to be ALWAYS at 100+ EV, assuming the machine is set to the lowest setting.
but back to my orig question.. how much do i need to bring with me to have a 50% chance of hitting?
$69,960 in spins through the machine is how much?
If we assume the 88.05% Base ER, then you will be losing $.1195 of every dollar bet (discluding increases to Progressives)
You are betting $15.00/spin and losing 15 * .1195 = $1.7925 per spin, and you want to make 69960/15 = 4664 spins, so:
4664 * 1.7925 = $8,360.22 ALSO: $69,960 * .1195 = $8,360.22
8360 * .8805 = 7360.98 (8360/15 = 557.3 spins)
7360.98 * .8805 = $6481.34 (7360.98/15 = 490.73 spins, 1048 total)
6481.34 * .8805 = $5,706.82 (6481.34/15 = 432.09 spins, 1480.09 total)
5706.82 * .8805 = $5,024.86 (5705.82/15 = 380.39 spins, 1860.48 total)
5024.86 * .8805 = $4424.39 (5024.86/15 = 335 spins, 2195.48 total)
4424.39 * .8805 = $3895.68 (4424.39/15 = 294.96 spins, 2490.44 total)
3895.68 * .8805 = $3430.15 (3895.68/15 = 259.71 spins, 2750.15 total)
3430.15 * .8805 = $3020.25 (3430.15/15 = 228.68 spins, 2978.83 total)
3020.25 * .8805 = $2659.33 (3020.25/15 = 201.35 spins, 3180.18 total)
2659.33 * .8805 = $2341.54 (2659.33/15 = 177.29 spins, 3357.47 total)
2341.54 * .8805 = $2061.73 (2341.54/15 = 156.10 spins, 3513.57 total)
2061.73 * .8805 = $1815.35 (2061.73/15 = 137.45 spins, 3651.02 total)
1815.35 * .8805 = $1598.42 (1815.35/15 = 121.02 spins, 3772.04 total)
1598.42 * .8805 = $1407.41 (1598.42/15 = 106.56 spins, 3878.6 total)
1407.41 * .8805 = $1239.22 (1407.41/15 = 93.83 spins, 3972.43 total)
1239.22 * .8805 = $1,091.13 (1239.22/15 = 82.61 spins, 4055.04 total)
1091.13 * .8805 = $960.74 (1091.13/15 = 72.74 spins, 4127.78 total)
960.74 * .8805 = $845.93 (960.74/15 = 64.05 spins, 4191.83 total)
845.93 * .8805 = $744.84 (845.93/15 = 56.4 spins, 4248.23 total)
744.84 * .8805 = $655.83 (744.84/15 = 49.66 spins, 4297.89 total)
655.83 * .8805 = $577.46 (655.83/15 = 43.72 spins, 4341.61 total)
$577.46 * .8805 = $508.45 (577.46/15 = 38.5 spins, 4380.11 total)
508.45 * .8805 = $447.69 (508.45/15 = 33.9 spins, 4414.01 total)
447.69 * .8805 = $394.19 (447.69/15 = 29.85 spins, 4443.86 total)
394.19 * .8805 = $347.08 (394.19/15 = 26.28 spins, 4470.14 total)
347.08 * .8805 = $305.60 (347.08/15 = 23.14 spins, 4493.28 total)
305.6 * .8805 = $269.08 (305.6/15 = 20.37 spins, 4513.65 total)
269.08 * .8805 = $236.92 (269.08/15 = 17.94 spins, 4531.59 total)
236.92 * .8805 = $208.61 (236.92/15 = 15.79 spins, 4547.38 total)
208.61 * .8805 = $183.68 (208.61/15 = 13.91 spins, 4561.29 total)
183.68 * .8805 = $161.73 (183.68/15 = 12.25 spins, 4573.54 total)
$161.73 * .8805 = $142.40 (161.73/15 = 10.78 spins, 4584.32 total)
142.4 * .8805 = $125.38 (142.4/15 = 9.49 spins, 4593.81 total)
125.38 * .8805 = $110.4 (125.38/15 = 8.36 spins, 4602.17 total)
110.4 * .8805 = $97.21 (110.4/15 = 7.36 spins, 4609.53 total)
97.21 * .8805 = $85.59 (97.21/15 = 6.48 spins, 4616.01 total)
85.59 * .8805 = $75.36 (85.59/15 = 5.71 spins, 4621.72 total)
75.36 * .8805 = $66.35 (75.36/15 = 5.02 spins, 4626.74 total)
66.35 * .8805 = $58.42 (66.35/15 = 4.42 spins, 4631.16 total)
58.42 * .8805 = $51.44 (58.42/15 = 3.89 spins, 4635.05 total)
51.44 * .8805 = $45.29 (51.44/15 = 3.43 spins, 4638.48 total)
45.29 * .8805 = $39.88 (45.29/15 = 3.02 spins, 4641.5 total)
39.88 * .8805 = $35.11 (39.88/15 = 2.66 spins, 4644.16 total)
35.11 * .8805 = $30.91 (35.11/15 = 2.34 spins, 4646.5 total)
30.91 * .8805 = $27.22 (30.91/15 = 2.06 spins, 4648.56 total)
27.22 * .8805 = $23.97 (27.22/15 = 1.81 spins, 4650.37 total)
23.97 * .8805 = $21.11 (23.97/15 = 1.6 spins, 4651.97 total)
$21.11 * .8805 = $18.59 (21.11/15 = 1.41 spins, 4653.38 total)
18.59 * .8805 = $16.37 (18.59/15 = 1.24 spins, 4654.62 total)
16.37 * .8805 = $14.41 (16.37/15 = 1.09 spins, 4655.71 total)
COMING UP LIGHT
You ended up about 8.29 spins off for a few reasons:
1.) I'm simply not going any further because you can't make a fraction of a spin. The Math doesn't care that you can't make a fraction of a spin, though.
2.) Rounding, possibly, or rounding could have helped...didn't keep track.
EXCEPT
The base pay doesn't include any increases to the Progressives whatsoever, so you don't even actually need that much.
FINALLY
We established that you are losing $1.7925/spin and fell short 8.29 spins, so that says you need $14.86 to make that happen, which is not even the full cost of one spin. You'll also notice that we have $14.41 remaining per the above, so I would assume rounding worked slightly against us.
EDIT: I just noticed I lopped off $0.22 right from the get go, and I have no idea why, so just adding that back to $14.41 puts us at $14.63.
Quote: 100xOddsso i need 7qh to be at $11806+ to be ALWAYS at 100+ EV, assuming the machine is set to the lowest setting.
but back to my orig question.. how much do i need to bring with me to have a 50% chance of hitting?
$69,960 in spins through the machine is how much?
The problem is to estimate this well, the PAR sheet would be useful since knowing the probability of each event is needed to properly determine the SD. Unfortunately, the Bally's website will only give the overall hit percentage of the machine, which is 50.19% for Black & White 7s.
Unfortunately, what mission suggests in the above post will be somewhat off since the expected return of 88.05% without progressive hits is the mean result NOT the median result. The median result is lower than the mean result because the machine is skewed toward bigger wins even for the non-progressive wins.
Also remember that the 50% point of hitting the 7QH is not 9327/2 = 4664 spins, it is (9326/9327)^X = 0.50. X ~ 6464. Weird that its still made of 6's and 4's though. :) So the BR needed is likely into the 5 digits.
Quote: tringlomaneThe problem is to estimate this well, the PAR sheet would be useful since knowing the probability of each event is needed to properly determine the SD. Unfortunately, the Bally's website will only give the overall hit percentage of the machine, which is 50.19% for Black & White 7s.
That's very true, but the mean is the best we have to go with.
Quote:Unfortunately, what mission suggests in the above post will be somewhat off since the expected return of 88.05% without progressive hits is the mean result NOT the median result. The median result is lower than the mean result because the machine is skewed toward bigger wins even for the non-progressive wins.
I don't know how much that factors in. Discluding Free Games (how many of those should be higher than $1,500 would be tough to figure out) there are only three individual spin results that are better than 7QH, and they comprise a fairly low amount of the ER.
8QH= Base 650 * 15 = $9,750/10 = $975 * 1/87617 = 0.011127977447299038 or 1.1128% of ER
9QH = Base 2000 * 15 = $30,000/10 = $3,000 * 1/2073600 = 0.0014467592592592594 or .1447% of ER
5QHP= 5000 * 15 = $75,000/10 = $7,500 * Unknown = Unknown
Basically, if you want to assume that you don't hit 8QH or 9QH on the Base Game during this time, then you could subtract 1.2575% from the Base ER + the Unknown ER for 5QHP, which we can probably assume is less likely than 9QH.
88.05 - 1.2575 = 86.7925% Base ER
Quote:Also remember that the 50% point of hitting the 7QH is not 9327/2 = 4664 spins, it is (9326/9327)^X = 0.50. X ~ 6464. Weird that its still made of 6's and 4's though. :) So the BR needed is likely into the 5 digits.
That's true, pretty big screw up on my part. I'd actually done that, but decided that had to be wrong. In any event:
6464 * 15 = $96,960 and an assumed loss of 15 * (1-.867925) per spin, assuming 8QH and 9QH will not hit = -1.981125000000001/spin
6464 * 1.981125000000001 = $12805.99 Needed ALSO 96960 * .132075 = $12805.99
since I dont have the bankroll for that, should I ignore the 7QH from my EV calcs and just use 5QH and 6QH in determining whether or not to play it?
Quote: 100xOddsWow.. $12805.99 to have a 50% chance of winning 7QH.
since I dont have the bankroll for that, should I ignore the 7QH from my EV calcs and just use 5QH and 6QH in determining whether or not to play it?
You could do that, but keep in mind that if you want to calculate it the same way for 6QH and 5QH, then you would ignore 7QH, 8QH and 9QH + 5QHP, so:
Quote:8QH= Base 650 * 15 = $9,750/10 = $975 * 1/87617 = 0.011127977447299038 or 1.1128% of ER
9QH = Base 2000 * 15 = $30,000/10 = $3,000 * 1/2073600 = 0.0014467592592592594 or .1447% of ER
5QHP= 5000 * 15 = $75,000/10 = $7,500 * Unknown = Unknown
Basically, if you want to assume that you don't hit 8QH or 9QH on the Base Game during this time, then you could subtract 1.2575% from the Base ER + the Unknown ER for 5QHP, which we can probably assume is less likely than 9QH.
88.05 - 1.2575 = 86.7925% Base ER
1.2575 + 7QH
7QH = Base 100 * 15 = 1500/10 = 150 * 1/9327 = 0.01608234158893535 or 1.6082% of Base ER
86.7925 - 1.6082 = 85.1843%
6QH = 1/1329---50% chance of hit = (1328/1329)^x = .50
x = 921 (1328/1329)^921 = .49994, but is closer to .50 than 920.
921 Spins * 15 = $13,815
Loss Per Spin = $15 * (1-.851843) = $2.222355
$2.222355 * 921 = $2,046.79 needed. ALSO: 13815 * .148156 = 2046.78 (Difference due to rounding)
CONCLUSION
You're basically going to need $2,046.79 to give yourself a 50% shot of hitting 6QH if you find that puts you at an advantage in and of itself.
I will also say that I don't like the idea of taking certain results (7QH-9QH + QHP) and essentially factoring them in as impossible for a calculation of ER because that is effectively like taking a VP game that is at +ER pursuant to some kind of RF Progressive, but then declaring that the RF is impossible, doesn't factor into ER, should not be included, thus, the machine is no longer at +ER. 7QH is actually considerably MORE likely than a RF, though 8QH is admittedly considerably less likely.
In my opinion, the ER is just the ER. It includes the probability of 7QH-9QH + 5QHP, a non-winner, and everything in between. You could make an argument about sample size, or what have you...but if you take a game such as Video Poker where you would expect to lose if you only played one hand, (Hit Rate is less than 50%) then am I going to say that your ER if you only play one hand is 0.00% because no winning hand should present itself in that sample size?
Bankroll
If you don't have the ~$2050 necessary, or based on 88.05%ER---15 * .1195 = 1.7925 lost per spin * 921 spins = $1650.89...to go after it with a 50% chance of hitting it, then I would just focus on lower Denomination QHP machines. I probably would, anyway, if you don't have the BR to go after 7QH (And I know I wouldn't at $15/pull!) because that's where you are going to see much of the +ER between 5-7QH.
It would take (9326/9327)^42951= 0.009999056173282795
42,951 Spins to give yourself a 99% shot of hitting the 7QH.
42951 * 15 = $644,265 in pulls
Loss Per Spin: 1.7925 * 42951 = $76989.67 Needed at Base ER
8QH @ 99%
(87616/87617)^403489 = 0.009999987855660894
403489 spins * 15 = $6,052,335 in spins
Loss Per Spin: 1.7925 * 403489 = $723,254.03
9QH @ 99%
(2073599/2073600)^9549279 = 0.009999998042981349
9,549,279 spins * 15 = $143,239,185
Loss Per Spin: 1.7925 * 9549279 = $17,117,082.61
I hope you brought your wallet, I'm coming up a little bit light. Don't worry, though, I'm sure your comps will be outstanding!
I could do $2000 for 6QH.
$1k bankroll at craps. double up to $2k. walk to high limits area if 6QH >$2000
problem w/lower denoms is that I havent seen the EV reach that high at this casino.
Quote: 100xOddsproblem w/lower denoms is that I havent seen the EV reach that high at this casino.
The problem is that most casinos have slot teams who constantly scout these machines, so you'll hardly ever find one when it is +EV.
Quote: 100xOddslol.. $17,117,082.61. Tap into the Wizard's credit line...
I could do $2000 for 6QH.
$1k bankroll at craps. double up to $2k. walk to high limits area if 6QH >$2000
problem w/lower denoms is that I havent seen the EV reach that high at this casino.
If you can handle the $2,050 for 6QH at 921 spins, and:
1.) It's not nearly that much $$$, because it includes a calculation of ER that I find dubious, at best.
2.) It does not factor in the increase to the Progressive Meters for 5QH and 6QH.
3.) In 921 spins, (9326/9327)^921= 0.9059683826656363----You're still 9.4% to hit 7QH.
4.) You can almost take the increase to 5QH Progressive for granted as part of your money, because (229/230)^921 = .018077662031292334---you're about 98.2% to hit 5QH in 921 spins. So, whatever the difference there is...you can almost subtract it from the amount needed.
Lower Denoms
That's a shame that you rarely see them at an advantage on the Lower Denoms. I guess the nice thing about small local casinos is that you really don't have too many slot teams casing the machines there at all times.
I have it from a slots supervisor at Resorts World in New York that the Quick Hits Platinum base pay settings ARE 92.09%, so that can be used along with the increases to the Progressives to determine when you are at 100+% ER. I just got off the phone with him.
Before you make a special trip, keep in mind that all of the Quick Hits machines at this location ARE linked Progressives and they are linked by each bank. If you find one at 100+% ER, you will want to mash that beast as fast as humanly possible until it hits.
Quote: Lonesome Gambler: Wong also did not coin the term "wonging."
Hunter Hill: Who did?[/q
On GWAE Stanford Wong was asked about the term "wonging" and where it came from. He said the first time he ever heard the term he was in a casino talking with a couple of blackjack players. He didn't know them and they didn't know who he was. One of them said "Excuse me, I have to go wong this blackjack game.""Quit trying your luck and start trying your skill." Mickey Crimm
Quote: Mission146Cool!
Finally learned how to search that Aracde site.
Black and Gold Wild Progressives:
http://www.arcade-history.com/?n=black-gold-wild-quick-hit-platinum&page=detail&id=45272
Exactly the same Progressives, slightly different base %'s.
Triple Blazing 7's Jackpot
http://www.arcade-history.com/?n=triple-blazing-7's-jackpot-quick-hit-platinum&page=detail&id=45274
Exactly the same Progressives
anyone know the min payout for this Quickhit version (Black Gold Wild)?
https://www.arcade-history.com/?n=black-gold-wild-quick-hit&page=detail&id=48608
edit:
the minimum payback listed on the marketing sheet.
or heck, even the par sheet? :)
In my experience, that is a $.01 denom machine, and max bet is $3.00, paying on 30 lines. At max bet, 3QH pays $3.00. 4QH pays $15. 5QH pays $75 at reset (progressives start here, only on max bets). 6QH pays reset $375. 7QH pays $700. 8 and 9, I'm not sure what the reset is, but I think 8 is near $1800, and 9 is near $9k for resets. I don't think there is any must-hit value.
Quote: beachbumbabsI'm not sure I fully understand your question, if it's in the context of must-hits.
In my experience, that is a $.01 denom machine, and max bet is $3.00, paying on 30 lines. At max bet, 3QH pays $3.00. 4QH pays $15. 5QH pays $75 at reset (progressives start here, only on max bets). 6QH pays reset $375. 7QH pays $700. 8 and 9, I'm not sure what the reset is, but I think 8 is near $1800, and 9 is near $9k for resets. I don't think there is any must-hit value.
oh i meant the total payback.
ie: some machines have a minimum 85% return.
some have a minimum 88%. And even one version (Quickhits double jackpots?) have less than 80% return.
just wondering if anyone has the marketing sheet for the Black Gold Wild version?
The marketing sheet outlines the benefits of the game, including the min payback.
heck, or even the par sheet? :)
Quote: 100xOddsoh i meant the total payback.
ie: some machines have a minimum 85% return.
some have a minimum 88%.
just wondering if anyone has the marketing sheet for the Black Gold Wild version?
heck, or even the par sheet? :)
I think the question is about why you revived a 6 year old thread about must-hit jackpots to ask about the return for a non-must-hit slot.
one of my Google 'quickhits' search results surprisingly got me missions post.Quote: rdw4potusI think the question is about why you revived a 6 year old thread about must-hit jackpots to ask about the return for a non-must-hit slot.
I just replied to it.
I didn't realize the date till after I replied
