Poker God or Cheating Scum?

Threads: 169
Posts: 22575

Joined: Oct 10, 2012

Thanked by

October 3rd, 2019 at 6:53:59 AM permalink

Quote: Edpokernut
I see in that thread that some think he might of worn a Bone Conduction Headset in his baseball caps. I guess baseball caps will be the next thing banned at casinos, lol.

https://www.maxvirtual.com/all-products.html#!/Cynaps-Assist-Assistive-Listening-via-Bone-Conduction/p/32772572/category=12180222

Obviously, I don't know how all this technology works.
I thought most all the speculation is that he was using his phone. If you watch Doug Polk’s video you can clearly see is abnormally focused on keeping his phone in his left hand under the table in his lap out of view and oftentimes looking at it at unusual times during hands. I can't begin to explain how obvious it it seems you just have to watch it for yourself.

Perhaps you need the phone and hat working in conjunction with each other somehow?

I know there's been lots of comments from people thinking something's buzzing him letting him know if he has a winning hand or a losing hand against specific players. That seems very unlikely and it goes much beyond that considering his bet sizing seems right in line with knowing exactly what the hole cards are. He knows how much the bet to string people along when he has a good hand and he knows exactly when to push to get them off their hand.

What I don't understand is even after they banned phones(apparently they didn't enforce this) he still continued whatever he was doing. I would assume he would have figured the gig was up and if he continued he would get caught. I guess it's possible he assumed the phone ban. was from some other reason like slowing down the game.

I just have to think that he had some hints that people suspected he was doing something funny months before he got caught, yet he still continued. That's what's so puzzling to me. Unless of course he did have somebody on the inside assuring him everything would be okay? If it was somebody on the inside helping the guy out you would think they would be able freaked out as well. Is it possible a particular commentators personal equipment or devices have been compromised unknowing to them?

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

heatmap

Threads: 272
Posts: 2350

Joined: Feb 12, 2018

October 3rd, 2019 at 7:46:09 AM permalink

i feel like im in backwards land. normally im the one accusing the casino or whatever it is of cheating. But everything ive seen about this and the videos that are available do me no justice. i just dont see it. There are NO cameras in the table they use when streaming. I feel like that alone would be the only way to see through hole cards if someone was colluding because then someone would have access to the feed and people are not trustworthy.

ALTHOUGH i do not understand how the cards are known to the cameras... is that done in some kind of post production as in they have someone recording everyones hands as they are mucked?

in any case ill get creative here ...

IF the cards are RFID enabled... thats the only way.

But the attacker would need to have the database of numbers that correlated to which cards belong to which number that the RFID chip is showing.

Maybe this guys has it.

Phones these days do come with RFID readers, and there are many apps that allow you to find and store the RFID signals.

But without the arbitrarily created database that Stones has made themselves unless you bring a phone which scanned and identified which number correlates to which cards only after they were identified and turned over by the players as they play. Although after a nice hour I dont doubt the entire collection of cards cant be identified.

If someone can find the manufacturer of the system that allows the entire production of the live stream, and if the cameras or whatever is happening uses RFID to identify and display the cards on screen, then this story might be possible. I am currently searching and have found that RFID playing cards are very common these days, at least being sold on Alibaba https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/rfid-playing-cards.html

So we have this production system, that someone has access to but we dont necessarily know how the camera knows which cards are and have been played, and if it is RFID chips in the cards, then I fully believe this is possible to pull off even without colluding with the owners or anyone but yourself because if my phone can read and store the chips into a database then all i have to do is let the phone sit and scan within a split second to know of the chips that are currently within my range, all i need to do is sit tightly and hope that I didnt mislabel the cards that I think are correlated with the chip number. (run on sorry)

DRich

DRich

Threads: 89
Posts: 12636

Joined: Jul 6, 2012

October 3rd, 2019 at 7:50:31 AM permalink

Quote: heatmap
i feel like im in backwards land. normally im the one accusing the casino or whatever it is of cheating. But everything ive seen about this and the videos that are available do me no justice. i just dont see it. There are NO cameras in the table they use when streaming. I feel like that alone would be the only way to see through hole cards if someone was colluding because then someone would have access to the feed and people are not trustworthy.

ALTHOUGH i do not understand how the cards are known to the cameras... is that done in some kind of post production as in they have someone recording everyones hands as they are mucked?

in any case ill get creative here ...

IF the cards are RFID enabled... thats the only way.

But the attacker would need to have the database of numbers that correlated to which cards belong to which number that the RFID chip is showing.

Maybe this guys has it.

Phones these days do come with RFID readers, and there are many apps that allow you to find and store the RFID signals.

But without the arbitrarily created database that Stones has made themselves unless you bring a phone which scanned and identified which number correlates to which cards only after they were identified and turned over by the players as they play. Although after a nice hour I dont doubt the entire collection of cards cant be identified.

If someone can find the manufacturer of the system that allows the entire production of the live stream, and if the cameras or whatever is happening uses RFID to identify and display the cards on screen, then this story might be possible. I am currently searching and have found that RFID playing cards are very common these days, at least being sold on Alibaba https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/rfid-playing-cards.html

So we have this production system, that someone has access to but we dont necessarily know how the camera knows which cards are and have been played, and if it is RFID chips in the cards, then I fully believe this is possible to pull off even without colluding with the owners or anyone but yourself because if my phone can read and store the chips into a database then all i have to do is let the phone sit and scan within a split second to know of the chips that are currently within my range, all i need to do is sit tightly and hope that I didnt mislabel the cards that I think are correlated with the chip number. (run on sorry)

I believe it is RFID chips in the cards.

At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.

PokerGrinder

Threads: 26
Posts: 5073

Joined: Apr 30, 2015

October 3rd, 2019 at 8:15:57 AM permalink

This is what happens when you comment without reading heatmap. Yes they use RFID to show the cards as every live stream I’ve ever seen does. Postle was the one who helped set up the stream so this would have been very easy for him as he knows how it works.

You can shear a sheep a hundred times, but you can skin it only once. — Amarillo Slim Preston

Rigondeaux

Threads: 30
Posts: 2549

Joined: Aug 18, 2014

October 3rd, 2019 at 8:31:32 AM permalink

Mike is kind of a done deal. Many more silly hands. Still no examples of him being bluffed off a hand stronger than 4th pair with 4 to a straight out there. Still no examples of him bluffing someone with a decent hand.

On to Justin, the manager/producer. So, Justin went to Vegas for the WSOP and Mike stopped playing much. When he did play, he dressed and behaved differently. He also suddenly stunk at poker.

New: Justin did an appearance in the broadcast booth, away from his normal duties. Mike lost his psychic abilities during this time and then regained them immediately.

Someone found another session during which Mike played like a mortal. Justin was on vacation in Australia.

PokerGrinder

Threads: 26
Posts: 5073

Joined: Apr 30, 2015

October 3rd, 2019 at 8:40:00 AM permalink

The Twitter posts from Joey Ingram, Doug Polk, Scott Seiver and Tony Dunst are great!

Cheating is bad but I’m loving it because it’s so comical.

You can shear a sheep a hundred times, but you can skin it only once. — Amarillo Slim Preston

heatmap

Threads: 272
Posts: 2350

Joined: Feb 12, 2018

October 3rd, 2019 at 8:47:54 AM permalink

Quote: PokerGrinder
This is what happens when you comment without reading heatmap. Yes they use RFID to show the cards as every live stream I’ve ever seen does. Postle was the one who helped set up the stream so this would have been very easy for him as he knows how it works.

you are correct that i dont read the entire thread, but i can barely read a book past the first couple of pages. i have the intention span of a fish. i thought that it was just a thought from drich that they MIGHT be using RFID chips within the cards, not that they were using it. and if you are saying that he helped set up the stream, then yes i am changing my viewpoint that he had inside information and if he understands how to set up the stream he most likely knows alot more than we all know. Do you possibly have a link that says he helped set it up?

edit :

my only thing is the mucked cards and the cards within the dealers hand that have yet to be dealt. and i would say that someone would need to have a live overlay of what the camera was seeing, and the RFID cards would need to be triangulated to the specific distances as to where the specific cards were at relative to the scanner and the live overlay would be amazing looking like having xray vision.

edit 2

and why else, if the owner wasnt colluding, would the owner let a person who set up the stream play in the first place? casino employees, at least at the sands bethlehem, cant play at their own place of work... for whatever reasons

Rigondeaux

Threads: 30
Posts: 2549

Joined: Aug 18, 2014

October 3rd, 2019 at 8:51:46 AM permalink

I saw a cool idea on Twitter. There are different variations, but you have a game where one player is the super user, but nobody else knows who. But, if you identify the super user you get a big reward and they get a penalty. Let's just say, you get half their stack.

Another cool thing to think about is if you were playing a super user and knew they were superusing. Who would have the advantage?

For example, if you had a medium strength hand and they bed small, you know you are probably beat and they are hoping for a call. But if they bet yuge, you know they are probably bluffing.

It would be just awesome to watch the superuser lose his effing mind in this situation.

PokerGrinder

Threads: 26
Posts: 5073

Joined: Apr 30, 2015

Thanked by

October 3rd, 2019 at 9:14:32 AM permalink

2+2 thread on Mike Postle would be all you need to get all this info heatmap.

As far as the RFID the players have a designated spot on the felt in front of them to put their cards so that the reader can read their cards. It’s a lot simpler than you are making it out to be.

You can shear a sheep a hundred times, but you can skin it only once. — Amarillo Slim Preston

heatmap

Threads: 272
Posts: 2350

Joined: Feb 12, 2018

October 3rd, 2019 at 9:22:04 AM permalink

Quote: PokerGrinder
2+2 thread on Mike Postle would be all you need to get all this info heatmap.

As far as the RFID the players have a designated spot on the felt in front of them to put their cards so that the reader can read their cards. It’s a lot simpler than you are making it out to be.

This is the only place I’ve looked at this. The forum layout of 2+2 gives me a headache I’ll take a look thanks

unJon

unJon

Threads: 16
Posts: 4763

Joined: Jul 1, 2018

October 3rd, 2019 at 9:29:05 AM permalink

Quote: heatmap
This is the only place I’ve looked at this. The forum layout of 2+2 gives me a headache I’ll take a look thanks

Watch the Polk video that’s linked is the Miscellaneous thread on this board. Good intro.

The Justin angle is super interesting and disgusting. I haven’t seen recent speculation about other possible super users at Stones. Early on there was mention of at least one other player with an unlikely win streak.

The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.

heatmap

Threads: 272
Posts: 2350

Joined: Feb 12, 2018

October 3rd, 2019 at 9:48:58 AM permalink

guys that thread is over 50 pages long already... smh... well maybe ill print the whole damn thread out and treat it like a book... that i will read the first couple of pages of ;)

heatmap

Threads: 272
Posts: 2350

Joined: Feb 12, 2018

October 3rd, 2019 at 9:59:13 AM permalink

Quote: Rigondeaux
I saw a cool idea on Twitter. There are different variations, but you have a game where one player is the super user, but nobody else knows who. But, if you identify the super user you get a big reward and they get a penalty. Let's just say, you get half their stack.

Another cool thing to think about is if you were playing a super user and knew they were superusing. Who would have the advantage?

For example, if you had a medium strength hand and they bed small, you know you are probably beat and they are hoping for a call. But if they bet yuge, you know they are probably bluffing.

It would be just awesome to watch the superuser lose his effing mind in this situation.

leave it to the world to create a game out of this

smoothgrh

smoothgrh

Threads: 91
Posts: 1563

Joined: Oct 26, 2011

October 3rd, 2019 at 10:46:52 AM permalink

Apologies for the peanut gallery comment: I'd love to have Postle and his opponents from the streams to play again without RFID cards and just have cameras like in the 1980s broadcasts of the WSOP. Even without knowing the hole cards, it'd be interesting for the audience to see if Postle can even come close to his success.

AxelWolf

Threads: 169
Posts: 22575

Joined: Oct 10, 2012

October 3rd, 2019 at 10:57:16 AM permalink

Quote: heatmap
guys that thread is over 50 pages long already... smh... well maybe ill print the whole damn thread out and treat it like a book... that i will read the first couple of pages of ;)

if you have about 28 minutes I think this covers everything in a nutshell.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=2kDtE9vrRiA

Doug Polk’s video.

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

PokerGrinder

Threads: 26
Posts: 5073

Joined: Apr 30, 2015

Thanked by

October 3rd, 2019 at 11:15:53 AM permalink

Scott Seiver said it best, it’s not about if he was cheating anymore it is about how he was doing it.

You can shear a sheep a hundred times, but you can skin it only once. — Amarillo Slim Preston

heatmap

Threads: 272
Posts: 2350

Joined: Feb 12, 2018

October 3rd, 2019 at 11:37:12 AM permalink

Doug Polk Live Stream Happening Now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuBerIx8e1M

im still going to say in my opn there needs to be a way to differentiate between mucked and hole and not dealt cards in order for this to be possible but i will side that he is cheating

edit 1....

annnnnddd they had a "graphics error" in one of the streams, and changed a dudes card from 7 something, to a straight in one of the games haha the RFID thing is in question now....

gordonm888
Administrator

Threads: 61
Posts: 5357

Joined: Feb 18, 2015

Thanked by

October 3rd, 2019 at 11:56:27 AM permalink

Viewed the Polk video, spent 30 minutes on the 2+2 thread and watched some of the other videos.

The fact that- 3 times- the House announcers declared that the RFID technology had misread Postle's hole cards and declared that his hole cards were really the nuts - seems to be evidence that one or more of the announcers (I.e., his brother Jason) were in on the cheat.

It seems likely that Postle was simply getting a live feed from the streaming broadcast on his phone showing the cards associated with the players. Remember he was a principal in setting up the system that reads the cards and puts them into the broadcast.

Even in a court of law, it is possible to be convicted based on overwhelming circumstantial evidence. Their is only one possible conclusion - Postle is a cheat and his brother Jason is a cheat. They should both be stripped of their clothes, tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail.

So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.

PokerGrinder

Threads: 26
Posts: 5073

Joined: Apr 30, 2015

October 3rd, 2019 at 12:16:16 PM permalink

Quote: heatmap
Doug Polk Live Stream Happening Now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuBerIx8e1M

im still going to say in my opn there needs to be a way to differentiate between mucked and hole and not dealt cards in order for this to be possible but i will side that he is cheating

edit 1....

annnnnddd they had a "graphics error" in one of the streams, and changed a dudes card from 7 something, to a straight in one of the games haha the RFID thing is in question now....

I don’t mean this to be rude but you have no idea how RFID works. They changed the graphic because of what Postle said, there is 0% chance the RFID malfunctioned.

You can shear a sheep a hundred times, but you can skin it only once. — Amarillo Slim Preston

RS

Threads: 62
Posts: 8626

Joined: Feb 11, 2014

October 3rd, 2019 at 12:29:14 PM permalink

Mike Postle is a GOD!!!!

PokerGrinder

Threads: 26
Posts: 5073

Joined: Apr 30, 2015

Thanked by

October 3rd, 2019 at 12:36:48 PM permalink

Quote: RS
Mike Postle is a GOD!!!!

RS is a troll! 😁

You can shear a sheep a hundred times, but you can skin it only once. — Amarillo Slim Preston

PokerGrinder

Threads: 26
Posts: 5073

Joined: Apr 30, 2015

October 3rd, 2019 at 1:23:13 PM permalink

https://www.captiongenerator.com/1532132/StonesLive-Mike-Postle-Cheating

This is why I love scandal, the funny videos!

You can shear a sheep a hundred times, but you can skin it only once. — Amarillo Slim Preston

heatmap

Threads: 272
Posts: 2350

Joined: Feb 12, 2018

October 3rd, 2019 at 1:36:13 PM permalink

Quote: PokerGrinder
I don’t mean this to be rude but you have no idea how RFID works. They changed the graphic because of what Postle said, there is 0% chance the RFID malfunctioned.

I know enough that its not important to know how RFID works, but im guessing you already know that the signal is sent to the chip and the chip vibrates at a specific frequency which the reader then interprets as a number. Thats pretty much it, and the technical stuff beyond that is what is accessible to humans, because there is no computations being done on the "chip". And computers have the ability to correct themselves. The RFID chips are being scanned probably hundreds to thousands of times a second, and there should not be an error as they have stated in the video. RFID can be used to track things in a real time manner. You can track movement. I have ranted about this a long time ago. RFID is great.

In the video they said "RFID doesnt work like that" and it doesnt. I dont care how much you might not trust computers they are more reliable and trustworthy than any human and mistakes can be checked in memory, and revised before an output is displayed on screen. If you are outputting mistakes that is called debugging, but in production, you want to give as little information to the user as possible about any issues happening internally. Also you wouldnt just display the incorrect thing on any screen for the amount of time that the mistake happened for, and the amount of times it happened. Why would they need to trust this mike dude at all if the computer recorded all of the numbers accurately? They would simply look at the logs and make the decision for themselves rather than trusting a human - because as i have said they are not trustworthy in a security prespective.

edit

and i think i should have given more information, because i dont doubt the RFID integrity, the streamers were the ones that doubted it

PokerGrinder

Threads: 26
Posts: 5073

Joined: Apr 30, 2015

October 3rd, 2019 at 2:07:38 PM permalink

I meant RFID for live streams. Postle didn’t know any of the cards except those dealt to players. He doesn’t know the burn cards or any cards left in the dealer’s stub. He knows the other player’s cards or possibly just the strength of their hands.

You can shear a sheep a hundred times, but you can skin it only once. — Amarillo Slim Preston

heatmap

Threads: 272
Posts: 2350

Joined: Feb 12, 2018

October 3rd, 2019 at 3:43:20 PM permalink

Quote: PokerGrinder
I meant RFID for live streams. Postle didn’t know any of the cards except those dealt to players. He doesn’t know the burn cards or any cards left in the dealer’s stub. He knows the other player’s cards or possibly just the strength of their hands.

Well if the players initially place their rfid chipped cards on the sensors, and then muck, that alone gives a view of which cards people have given up, as well as the players that still have cards, and the cards that have not been used. If I’m going to cheat I’m going all the way because without that info I can’t reliably measure the chances that a card still has of coming out. If 9 players are playing and 7 of them fold their hands, I can reliably say that there are (52-18)/52 cards remaining and generate my stats or predictions from there. With the rfid chips my predictions can say which cards are still left as well. Not arguing with you just telling you what I’m thinking

Rigondeaux

Threads: 30
Posts: 2549

Joined: Aug 18, 2014

October 3rd, 2019 at 6:29:25 PM permalink

Bart Hanson, well known player and teacher, alerted Justin to possible problems 12 months ago.

He was told they did a security audit and blah blah blah in response to his concern.

Beginning to look like he also knows community cards ahead of time. It had crossed my mind, as he runs great even for someone who can see opponents cards.

The ak vs 54 hand, he tanks forever. Grabbing his hat, which contains a device. I think 2 4s are in other players hands preflop, which Doug touches upon, assuming he missed that. He has good equity against AK AK. But he is still a dog to win. Of course he wins.

Why the need for the hat, the keys and the phone to convey just holecards? Perhaps the had is for the board and the phone is for hole cards.

AxelWolf

Threads: 169
Posts: 22575

Joined: Oct 10, 2012

October 3rd, 2019 at 6:46:15 PM permalink

Quote: Rigondeaux
Bart Hanson, well known player and teacher, alerted Justin to possible problems 12 months ago.

He was told they did a security audit and blah blah blah in response to his concern.

Beginning to look like he also knows community cards ahead of time. It had crossed my mind, as he runs great even for someone who can see opponents cards.

The ak vs 54 hand, he tanks forever. Grabbing his hat, which contains a device. I think 2 4s are in other players hands preflop, which Doug touches upon, assuming he missed that. He has good equity against AK AK. But he is still a dog to win. Of course he wins.

Why the need for the hat, the keys and the phone to convey just holecards? Perhaps the had is for the board and the phone is for hole cards.

If he's got all that going while keeping track and getting away with it for over a year, perhaps he is a God.

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

unJon

unJon

Threads: 16
Posts: 4763

Joined: Jul 1, 2018

October 3rd, 2019 at 6:56:27 PM permalink

Quote: AxelWolf
If he's got all that going while keeping track and getting away with it for over a year, perhaps he is a God.

Meh. With God powers, it’s pretty pathetic to churn $150k at poker.

The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.

Rigondeaux

Threads: 30
Posts: 2549

Joined: Aug 18, 2014

Thanked by

October 3rd, 2019 at 7:39:42 PM permalink

I think he exploited the situation really well, setting aside that he was way too obvious.

He had also invented a new game for the stream called Dream Seat. Players would play 1 table tournaments and the winners would have a buy in for a higher stakes game on the stream

Pretty clever way to start winning a lot more.

AxelWolf

Threads: 169
Posts: 22575

Joined: Oct 10, 2012

October 3rd, 2019 at 8:12:40 PM permalink

Quote: Rigondeaux
I think he exploited the situation really well, setting aside that he was way too obvious.

Assuming we are correct for the most part about what's going on here. At some point I sure would love to know what his thinking was at the time he was doing all this. It's almost as if something went to his head and he just thought there was no way anyone would put this all together.

Now I wonder your stuff like this what's going on at the World Series of Poker to a much lesser degree? Assuming you're a skilled player and you do this once in awhile you would have a significant advantage.

Even in cash games just a few times doing this would be significant. Oftentimes during a session it comes down to just key few hands that really make you or break you for the night. Wouldn't that be an interesting game to play if everyone had one or two life lines they could use during a session. One like see your opponent's hands but they don't know or see either a turn or river card and they don't know.

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

Rigondeaux

Threads: 30
Posts: 2549

Joined: Aug 18, 2014

October 3rd, 2019 at 9:17:42 PM permalink

Someone posted these keys made just for cheating at poker. They had a bunch of different models.

Obviously they are selling enough to run a business.

I'd probably stick with the old school methods because you never really have a smoking gun.

Rigondeaux

Threads: 30
Posts: 2549

Joined: Aug 18, 2014

Thanked by

October 3rd, 2019 at 11:55:10 PM permalink

AxelWolf

Threads: 169
Posts: 22575

Joined: Oct 10, 2012

October 4th, 2019 at 12:11:17 AM permalink

Aside from RS who's the other _____ that voted Poker God?

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

AxelWolf

Threads: 169
Posts: 22575

Joined: Oct 10, 2012

October 4th, 2019 at 12:11:18 AM permalink

Aside from RS who's the other _____ that voted Poker God?
----------------------------------------------------------------
I noticed Romes has been fairly silent about the situation, even on Twitter.
Very suspicious.

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

vegas

vegas

Threads: 32
Posts: 734

Joined: Apr 27, 2012

October 4th, 2019 at 5:08:59 AM permalink

If this guy was really this good would he be playing for such low stakes? Of course not. He continues to look like a "God" playing 1-3 and some 5-10 and maybe a bit higher but not playing the biggest stakes. Coincidence? I think not.

50-50-90 Rule: Anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there is a 90% probability you'll get it wrong

SOOPOO

SOOPOO

Threads: 123
Posts: 11465

Joined: Aug 8, 2010

October 4th, 2019 at 6:05:50 AM permalink

Is what he is doing criminal? Or just bannable from the casino? Seems to me it is some kind of theft, right? Why has he not been arrested?
It seems the evidence exceeds "reasonable doubt"?

SM777

SM777

Threads: 6
Posts: 762

Joined: Apr 8, 2016

October 4th, 2019 at 7:14:20 AM permalink

Almost exclusively playing at Stone's Casino tables that only have a live feed, and the one session lost his friend and casino employee at Stone's was out of town kind of gives it away.

gordonm888
Administrator

Threads: 61
Posts: 5357

Joined: Feb 18, 2015

October 4th, 2019 at 7:06:51 PM permalink

In this video below check out 1:19:55 where they show pictures of the bulge in Mike Postle's hat; then check out 1:23 where they google and find the "bone conduction hat." Really interesting stuff.

So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.

RS

Threads: 62
Posts: 8626

Joined: Feb 11, 2014

October 4th, 2019 at 8:31:42 PM permalink

Quote: AxelWolf
Aside from RS who's the other _____ that voted Poker God?

I haven't even voted in this poll

on this account at least

AxelWolf

Threads: 169
Posts: 22575

Joined: Oct 10, 2012

October 4th, 2019 at 8:57:40 PM permalink

Quote: SOOPOO
Is what he is doing criminal? Or just bannable from the casino? Seems to me it is some kind of theft, right? Why has he not been arrested?
It seems the evidence exceeds "reasonable doubt"?

Asuming he is doing what we all think he's doing he is using an electronic cheating device. I assume that's illegal in most states. If he has a partner helping I would assume there's even more they could charge him with.

I somehow think if this was in NV he would have been investigated by gaming already.

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

Rigondeaux

Threads: 30
Posts: 2549

Joined: Aug 18, 2014

Thanked by

October 5th, 2019 at 12:00:38 AM permalink

What odds would you make it that he does time?

There are a few lawyers at 2+2 and opinions vary.

This guy Matt is both a successful high stakes live cash player, and a legit expert on the technology used for streaming. I think a lot of you, even non poker fans, would enjoy hearing about the tech and possible cheating methods. Bigins around the 20 min mark.

heatmap

Threads: 272
Posts: 2350

Joined: Feb 12, 2018

October 5th, 2019 at 6:24:16 AM permalink

from http://www.videopokertable.net/Download.aspx

here is the UI for the software for the RFID tables that they use at stones apparently

and at least from a first look the hands are / can be entered manually but there seems to be an auto mode as well

Im seeing a BIG issue here in the manual. This table can be fully wireless. If you are on the same WiFi as the table, cheating is very possible in this situation. If you have an unlocked phone, and are on the same wifi, AND you can decrypt the streams packets, you may be able to see the "cards" in a way. The manual claims that the communication between the software and the table is fully encrytped. Its most likely pretty difficult depending on the type of encryption but if its a weak encryption, and encrypted with an older encryption that has already been cracked then its possible.

the manual states that the Wifi uses whats called "WPA2" anddd

https://www.fortinet.com/blog/business-and-technology/wpa2-has-been-broken-what-now.html

"

First, an attacker needs to be in reasonably close proximity in order to capture the traffic between an endpoint device and the vulnerable wireless access point. So, until things are fixed, you should be especially careful using public WiFi. Of course, we’ve been saying that for years.

In addition, the attack is unlikely to affect the security of information sent over a connection using additional encrypted methods such as SSL. Every time you access an HTTPS site, for example, your browser creates a separate layer of encryption that will keep you safe when doing things like online banking or making purchases, even in spite of this latest security threat. So keep your eye on that little lock icon in the corner of your browser when you are conducting transactions online over a WiFi connection.

"

there is most likely no browser being used here because it is most likely a custome piece of software in his phone helping him cheat

my next question is ... What incident are they talking about that happened at the "Bike" stream. Apparently these guys were told a similar incident happened so why havent we heard about that? who got cheated? how did they cheat? maybe these are the same people?

Last edited by: heatmap on Oct 5, 2019

sammydv

sammydv

Threads: 9
Posts: 624

Joined: Mar 25, 2016

Thanked by

October 5th, 2019 at 8:28:53 PM permalink

Quote: Rigondeaux
What odds would you make it that he does time?

There are a few lawyers at 2+2 and opinions vary.

This guy Matt is both a successful high stakes live cash player, and a legit expert on the technology used for streaming. I think a lot of you, even non poker fans, would enjoy hearing about the tech and possible cheating methods. Bigins around the 20 min mark.

People are asking if the gaming commission should already be investigating. But isn't this entire operation, stream and stone NOT sanctioned by any regulator and is a private operation, in a deal with a casino?
I seem to remember this being mentioned. So, who would they have to be worried about?

Even if the total operation was fake, to drum up interest in this venture for later real venture capital and casinos buying in? How do you litigate a private organization doing this as a advertising stunt?

gordonm888
Administrator

Threads: 61
Posts: 5357

Joined: Feb 18, 2015

October 5th, 2019 at 8:42:11 PM permalink

I am spending about 1-2 hours a day watching videos on this. I need to get a life.

Quote: Rigondeaux
What odds would you make it that he does time?

There are a few lawyers at 2+2 and opinions vary.

I think criminal prosecution is a low probability -there is no smoking gun other than the videos and it would be hard to convince a jury that doesn't understand poker.

Civil litigation - much more likely.

But ultimately, I wonder whether this gets handled the way the mob used to handle cheaters at their casinos -the way cheaters were handled in the wild west.. Maybe a baseball bat to the knees, or more extreme . . . . .

So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.

AxelWolf

Threads: 169
Posts: 22575

Joined: Oct 10, 2012

October 5th, 2019 at 9:38:38 PM permalink

Quote: gordonm888
I am spending about 1-2 hours a day watching videos on this. I need to get a life.

I was convinced fairly quickly probably halfway through Joe Ingram 2nd video, I just try to follow the latest updates.

Quote: gordonm888
I think criminal prosecution is a low probability -there is no smoking gun other than the videos and it would be hard to convince a jury that doesn't understand poker.

There's no hard evidence yet. I'm not even sure if there will be a real Criminal investigation or not.

I haven't listened to this yet, but apparently Mike the Mouth does a very soft interview with him and It left a lot of people disappointed.
https://themouthpiece.podbean.com/e/episode-21-the-mike-postle-cheating-scandal-with-special-guest-mike-postle/

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

gordonm888
Administrator

Threads: 61
Posts: 5357

Joined: Feb 18, 2015

October 5th, 2019 at 10:36:44 PM permalink

Stones Gambling Hall has announced it is appointing an independent investigation team headed Michael Lipman, a former assistant U.S Attorney. But, now, it has been discovered that Michael Lipman is the personal defense lawyer of the owner of the Stones Gambling Hall.

Is that what the word "independent" means?

So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.

AxelWolf

Threads: 169
Posts: 22575

Joined: Oct 10, 2012

October 5th, 2019 at 11:32:57 PM permalink

Quote: gordonm888
Stones Gambling Hall has announced it is appointing an independent investigation team headed Michael Lipman, a former assistant U.S Attorney. But, now, it has been discovered that Michael Lipman is the personal defense lawyer of the owner of the Stones Gambling Hall.

Is that what the word "independent" means?

OUTRAGEOUS!!!

You mind if I share this and quote you?

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

AxelWolf