m4vis
m4vis
Joined: Jul 17, 2014
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January 11th, 2015 at 10:30:39 AM permalink
Alright I wasn't sure whether or not to post this in the poker or slots section, but I was at the Excalibur yesterday and get this. There is a heads up video Texas hold 'em machine. Apparently it's non-adaptive, there is no rake, and after each hand you can view your opponents cards. The computer apparently has a single strategy and doesn't factor in opponent behavior. I'm not an expert or anything but I think that means a person could map out the computers strategy and solve it to the point where the player would have a significant edge over the house. I think it's new because I can't find much about this online. Anyone solved this yet? If not, get on it because I don't see this being around for long.
Hunterhill
Hunterhill
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January 11th, 2015 at 11:01:25 AM permalink
Yes there are a few players that claim they can beat the machine. There was an article about it in the New York Times.
The mountain is tall but grass grows on top of the mountain.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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January 11th, 2015 at 11:24:38 AM permalink
Quote: Hunterhill

Yes there are a few players that claim they can beat the machine. There was an article about it in the New York Times.

CLAIM.. yet they usually sit empty no one I know of has had a long history of beating them without slot club perks. I'm not saying its impossible but They had/have them in higher limits yet no one really plays them often.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Hunterhill
Hunterhill
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January 11th, 2015 at 11:52:26 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

CLAIM.. yet they usually sit empty no one I know of has had a long history of beating them without slot club perks. I'm not saying its impossible but They had/have them in higher limits yet no one really plays them often.


Comps definitely help. The guy quoted in the article said it was worth $60 per hour. I don't know what limit that was at.
I think on reason you don't see people playing id that there are better opportunities available, if you have other skills besides poker.
The mountain is tall but grass grows on top of the mountain.
m4vis
m4vis
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January 11th, 2015 at 3:29:41 PM permalink
I made about 80 bucks in 30 mins, but I don't think I had an edge over the house. There is a difference between normal poker strategy and exploiting a rigid system set by a computer. It wouldn't be hard to figure out the optimal strategy for that game but it would take more time and dedication than I have.
RaleighCraps
RaleighCraps
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January 11th, 2015 at 7:03:55 PM permalink
Quote: m4vis

I made about 80 bucks in 30 mins, but I don't think I had an edge over the house. There is a difference between normal poker strategy and exploiting a rigid system set by a computer. It wouldn't be hard to figure out the optimal strategy for that game but it would take more time and dedication than I have.



If you assume that the machine is coded to always make the smartest +EV play, then yes, you could probably figure out a counter strategy. But suppose the machine was coded so that it would randomly throw in a bluff in certain conditions? If that induced you to fold a better hand at times, would your counter strategy still give you the upper hand?

I am saying random, as in completely random. You would not be able to detect any conditions that cause the machine to bluff, since the decision would be random, not condition based.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back ! Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
m4vis
m4vis
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January 12th, 2015 at 2:23:17 AM permalink
bluffing is part of the computers strategy. I haven't seen anything implying randomness is coded into it, although even if it was, you would still have an edge just by being able to bluff the ai, which would be easier to get away with against the computer. Since it's limit poker, it's much easier to control the chip flow over time. Everything I've read and tested so far points to the ai not being very complex. I've caugh the computer bluffing, but it doesn't make calculated bluffs like a person would. It's bluffs appear to be independent of the board state or even how the hand has been bet on so far by the player.
Asswhoopermcdaddy
Asswhoopermcdaddy
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January 13th, 2015 at 5:00:17 AM permalink
Made 100 and lost 3 times that in a span of a few minutes. I'd imagine it's coded for optimal play, so the only way to win is to play unconventionally?
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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January 13th, 2015 at 5:18:55 AM permalink
Quote: Asswhoopermcdaddy

Made 100 and lost 3 times that in a span of a few minutes. I'd imagine it's coded for optimal play, so the only way to win is to play unconventionally?

If you play to unconventionally then the math/odds will rape you. I found playing the Heads-Up Limit Hold'em Machine very aggressively seems like the best strategy. Remember after the hand you get to see what it has. I always seem to get significantly more "bad beats" then I give.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

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