24Bingo
24Bingo
Joined: Jul 4, 2012
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August 17th, 2014 at 10:50:55 PM permalink
I have motivation to care.

I want your chips.

If you're able to stand up and then immediately buy back in, then clearly the tables are hurting for players. "Players" who just want to make a single bet and skedaddle if it wins don't help, even if they do come back. Sure, they're good for others' EV for the few hands they play*, but they don't keep the game going.

I do think it's always better to be deep-stacked, because if you truly gain an advantage from limiting your own options, your best move is not to play. But if your game is short-stacked, I want you deep-stacked, so those chips stay where they are.

Even if we put aside considerations like that, brick and mortar poker rooms aren't only for the benefit of "serious" players. Your strategy is, as it were, "simply not cricket."

What's more, if they're enforcing a time window, this must have become a problem.

I'll say this, though: two hours is excessive.

(* I'm not going to say your strategy's not +EV at many tables, just that it wouldn't be at all tables.)
The trick to poker is learning not to beat yourself up for your mistakes too much, and certainly not too little, but just the right amount.
tringlomane
tringlomane
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
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August 17th, 2014 at 10:57:44 PM permalink
Quote: BatMann

So why is ratholing against the rules but short stacking not?

In fact about 2 years ago they reduced the min buyin from 40BB to 20BB



Because people like the chance to win the money they lost back? Now in your particular case, I assume you reload when you lose a preflop ~race, but the rule is there for people that really try to lock up any win. And 20bb max? You playing at Commerce or something? haha
24Bingo
24Bingo
Joined: Jul 4, 2012
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August 17th, 2014 at 10:59:57 PM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

Because people like the chance to win the money they lost back? Now in your particular case, I assume you reload when you lose a preflop ~race, but the rule is there for people that really try to lock up any win. And 20bb max? You playing at Commerce or something? haha



20 bb min...

(But what is up with the Commerce's low-stakes NL, anyway? Are they trying to cater to people who want to pretend to play poker?)
The trick to poker is learning not to beat yourself up for your mistakes too much, and certainly not too little, but just the right amount.
tringlomane
tringlomane
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
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August 17th, 2014 at 11:05:50 PM permalink
Quote: 24Bingo

20 bb min...

(But what is up with the Commerce's low-stakes NL, anyway? Are they trying to cater to people who want to pretend to play poker?)



Yeah nice catch...too many beers tonight. But yeah, I don't really get Commerce, other than there are enough crazy gamblers willing to fall into that "drop" (not "rake" trap). Looks to be 12 of 86 tables running that game now via Bravo...haha
Pokeraddict
Pokeraddict
Joined: Feb 21, 2012
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August 17th, 2014 at 11:36:14 PM permalink
OP is delusional. Ratholing is sleazy and no legitimate poker room would ever allow it. It is hard to understand what his complaint is other than getting caught.
BatMann
BatMann
Joined: Jun 22, 2014
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August 17th, 2014 at 11:46:42 PM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

Because people like the chance to win the money they lost back? haha



So why is ratholing against the rules but hit-and-run not?
BatMann
BatMann
Joined: Jun 22, 2014
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August 17th, 2014 at 11:48:52 PM permalink
Quote: Pokeraddict

OP is delusional. Ratholing is sleazy and no legitimate poker room would ever allow it. It is hard to understand what his complaint is other than getting caught.



My complaint is trashtalkers like you think my play is -EV, yet refuse to let me make my so called -EV play by enforcing the rathole rule.

I know it's +EV, I don't need to prove it to you.
tringlomane
tringlomane
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
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August 17th, 2014 at 11:59:43 PM permalink
Quote: BatMann



I know it's +EV, I don't need to prove it to you.



Given the gigantic rake (or drop) of live poker, I'd really would like to see proof. I doubt you (or anyone) would be able to prove it though, or at the very least, my wish is not worth fulfilling. Against poor enough competition, it's is likely +EV though.
BatMann
BatMann
Joined: Jun 22, 2014
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August 18th, 2014 at 12:41:40 AM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

Given the gigantic rake (or drop) of live poker, I'd really would like to see proof. I doubt you (or anyone) would be able to prove it though, or at the very least, my wish is not worth fulfilling. Against poor enough competition, it's is likely +EV though.



I should be able to simulate it but I have no program to do so. I also hate the rake % on poker but you're probably leaving out the fact of no flop no rake. I am often able to steal straddles/calls and blinds/calls by shoving a mediocre hand late position and pay no rake for it since everyone folds.
Boney526
Boney526
Joined: Sep 25, 2011
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August 18th, 2014 at 1:10:29 AM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

Given the gigantic rake (or drop) of live poker, I'd really would like to see proof. I doubt you (or anyone) would be able to prove it though, or at the very least, my wish is not worth fulfilling. Against poor enough competition, it's is likely +EV though.



I don't agree with OP and I think ratholing s bad for poker, but given the standard raise sizes preflop in live 1-2, I'd imagine it's pretty easy to play shorstacked poker and win - even with the high rake. Obviously you can make more playing effective deeper stacked poker. Obviously not gonna bother with proof ATM cuz it's 410 AM where I am and I'm going to sleep - and I don't really care cuz I keep my stack topped off at 90-150bb at all time playing live.

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