UTH IS BUGGING ME!!!
I calculated 8C2+8C1 / 42C5
Calculating I came to the conclusion it's best I play this every time as that's the +EV.. The other two were saying fold... So who's right... Math proof is appreciated, thanks
PS. The numerator might even be TOO big in the above calculation..
Second, you take the ante and blind bets into consideration. Here are the two possible outcomes if you place the 1x play bet in the situation you describe:
324/990 = lose the ante, blind, and play bets (–3 units) = –0.981818
666/990 = push the ante, blind, and play bets (+0 units) = +0.000000
The return of making the 1x play bet is therefore –0.981818
However, the return of folding is -2.000000, because you would lose the ante and blind bets. Since -0.98 is a higher return than -2, you should make the 1x play bet.
So it's not +EV, but you will lose less by making the 1x play bet than you would lose by folding.
Always Fold: All possible dealer hands x 2 (units) = 990 x 2 = -1980
Always Play: All possible non greater flush hands =666 x 3 = +1998
Difference is 18 units better if you call v. Fold.
Quote: ewjones080Anybody else with thoughts?
Doesn't the trips bet get paid even if you fold? On the video version it does. I don't bet it so I don't know for sure.
Quote: PokeraddictDoesn't the trips bet get paid even if you fold? On the video version it does. I don't bet it so I don't know for sure.
Every casino I played at requires you to play the hand to qualify. The sim here pays without it for some reason.
Quote: PokeraddictDoesn't the trips bet get paid even if you fold? On the video version it does. I don't bet it so I don't know for sure.
Every casino has its own rules on this. At Pechanga in Temecula, Ca they make you bet the play spot to get paid on trips, however I have played many places that allow you to fold and still get paid on trips.
Quote: djatcEvery casino I played at requires you to play the hand to qualify. The sim here pays without it for some reason.
Because the casinos you play at are apparently running the game wrong.
http://www.wsgc.wa.gov/docs/game_rules/ultimate_texas_hold_em_progressive.pdf
Note: If the player has three of a kind or better, he always wins the trips bet—
even if he folds.
Quote: djatcEvery casino I played at requires you to play the hand to qualify. The sim here pays without it for some reason.
I modeled it after Shufflemaster's demo, which treats the Trips bet as independent. Note how here I folded with a Flush but still got paid on the Trips bet:
Casinos probably disregard the official game rules in this respect because it benefits them to do so.
Quote: tringlomaneBecause the casinos you play at are apparently running the game wrong.
http://www.wsgc.wa.gov/docs/game_rules/ultimate_texas_hold_em_progressive.pdf
Note: If the player has three of a kind or better, he always wins the trips bet—
even if he folds.
This was in Vegas, and I'm surprised at this because I played at 4 casinos that did not pay out if you fold. For future CYA situations always face up fold?
Quote: djatcThis was in Vegas, and I'm surprised at this because I played at 4 casinos that did not pay out if you fold. For future CYA situations always face up fold?
Well I would clarify the rule for sure, basically saying "I have a trips winner but I want to fold; do I still get paid on trips if I fold?" Because if you don't, you have to call more than optimal.
If players typically muck cards to the dealer, they obviously can't pay you. Did you actually see anyone fold and not get paid on a qualifying trips hand? I would think this is a fairly uncommon scenario.
By the way, whenever another player bothers me about not making a trips bet, I let them know they can play on my spot if they split the win with me.
When a dealer keeps bothering me about it (because they're missing out on the large toke they usually get from winning trips bets), I want to respond with "Do they let children on the gaming floor? No? Then stop telling a grown man how to spend his money". The only problem is I don't have the balls to actually say that.
Quote: RogerKintBy the way, whenever another player bothers me about not making a trips bet, I let them know they can play on my spot if they split the win with me.
That's sounds like an awesome way to deal with (what I would call) overbearing players! Well done, sir!
For that matter, why not say the same to the overbearing dealers, too? Of course they cannot and will not place any bet, but it might get the same point across as the wonderfully smart-a** comment below.
Quote: RogerKint"Do they let children on the gaming floor? No? Then stop telling a grown man how to spend his money".
I, too, would think it, but not say it ...unless I had had a few ...or new that the dealer had an extremely good sense of humor!
That is preposterous. Doesn't have house have a gaming guide that explains the actual little playing rules?Quote: RogerKintIn Vegas, at the Plaza, (The same place that wouldn't pay the envy bonus on a mini royal) the dealers do not pay trips bets if the player does not play the hand through. If the player appeals to the pit, they may side with the player. I've seen it go both ways.
Quote: camaplThat's sounds like an awesome way to deal with (what I would call) overbearing players! Well done, sir!
For that matter, why not say the same to the overbearing dealers, too? Of course they cannot and will not place any bet, but it might get the same point across as the wonderfully smart-a** comment below.
I, too, would think it, but not say it ...unless I had had a few ...or new that the dealer had an extremely good sense of humor!
While I understand how frustrating it is to deal with moronic dealers floormen, it generally avails us little to get into altercations with floor personnel. A lot of casinos have DTG's (Director of table games) who implement new game rules very arbitrarily via "The Rule Dartboard," for lack of a better description. Many floormen and dealers are "out to lunch" on doing things right on details they should have gotten right.
I think a good idea that'll make a difference is to contact the right person at the casino operator and/or the table games person at the distributor. Let them know what's going on, on what's wrong and isn't working. Every time a casino improperly operates a game, the distributor looks bad. The game may lose customers and get pulled from the floor, leaving the distributor with a bad reputation for its game, and loss of income. We take it seriously. 10% of my work consists of correcting things along the lines of "they did WHAT at the Chief Wild Eagle Casino? That hurt OUR game AND get it pulled! Here are the procedures, have Dean and Bobby set up training, or contact them on correct product procedures." Some Customers are as dangerous for a product as the best efforts of the competitors are.
Quote: HunterhillThis is similar to when 3card poker was new. If you lost with a straight or higher many places would not pay the ante bonus without a fight.
Yup, totally a "textbook fine point" thing. Respect those who get it right, - and most do.
And expect little from grind-house dealers and floormen. They're human, sometimes below human, and they make mistakes. To let any moron trouble your higher well-being is beneath you. We need to take this attitude whenever walking into a casino. I certainly had, being a dice dealer for seven years in this town as a job. In fact, I swear by this posture.
Many dealers should give it the benefit of the doubt that they're wrong, and give it a "customer service opportunity" ANTE bonus. The floormen may make the wrong calls nonetheless. Imagine what the dealers have to go through with these floormen and pit bosses as their supervisors.
Quote: HunterhillThis is similar to when 3card poker was new. If you lost with a straight or higher many places would not pay the ante bonus without a fight.
I still have that argument with some floor supervisors.
Also, speaking of 3CP, I once had a player put us up for $5 on the Ante and PairPlus. He got a straight flush. The floor wanted to refuse us the $30 tip from the ante (ante + ante bonus) because he didn't back it up with another $5 dealer bet on the Play.
Quote: MonkeyMonkeyI still have that argument with some floor supervisors.
Also, speaking of 3CP, I once had a player put us up for $5 on the Ante and PairPlus. He got a straight flush. The floor wanted to refuse us the $30 tip from the ante (ante + ante bonus) because he didn't back it up with another $5 dealer bet on the Play.
This is petty, - and a good way to alienate your own crew. Granted, it is a slight AP play when the player's hand is less than KQ, but on a straight flush?
Quote: PaigowdanThis is petty, - and a good way to alienate your own crew. Granted, it is a slight AP play when the player's hand is less than KQ, but on a straight flush?
The thing that struck me is that there had never been a problem with such dealer bets before. Granted they were usually only a dollar and they usually didn't win, but still.
Also, FWIW, the player was playing blind, and had been doing so all night, so it was pretty obvious that he wasn't "backing it up". You'd think if there was an issue it could have been addressed before there was a nice winning hand on the table.
All was well in the end, they let us have it.
Quote: HunterhillAt a casino I won`t name, they let the players bet for the dealer on Mississippi stud after the players look at their hands. So the player does not have to make an ante dealer bet,they just bet on 3rd,4th,and 5th street after they know they have a push or better.
Wow... want to PM me the info, I could see changing my venue for the right opportunity. :)
Quote: HunterhillNo this is just for dealer bets.The player still has to make his ante bet before the cards are dealt,so there is not a player advantage.
Being a dealer that's what I'm primarily interested in. :)
