newbie49
newbie49
Joined: Oct 26, 2010
  • Threads: 25
  • Posts: 63
February 1st, 2011 at 10:27:17 PM permalink
Typical side bet house edge range from 3% to 10% per cent. Some side bet go up to 30%.

Why casino charge such a high per cent? I think >5% is uncalled for? Even at >3% I think is a bit dear.

I mean casinos can charge 3% on blackjack or triple zeros on roulette, but casinos choose not to do it. Probably because it is not fun for the players if they experience too much losing sessions. It is better for the casino to charge a low edge, but milk the player over a longer period.

Why not so on side bets? I hear quite common on tables when a player says to another: 'never place a bet on xxx, it is a sucker bet'. Why not make all side bet around 2%?

I read that casino charge high house edge on games that has a high pay out ratio, like 3 to 1, 5 to 1, etc. Because the game carries more risk for the casino. But surely a thousand bets of $10 on a side bet is less risk than a $10000 bet on a high limit baccarat?
Wavy70
Wavy70
Joined: Nov 3, 2009
  • Threads: 15
  • Posts: 907
February 1st, 2011 at 10:47:55 PM permalink
If they can get people to play it at a huge house edge why would they change it.
If no one played the side bets they would go away. But people play them.
I have a bewitched egg that I use to play VP with and I have net over 900k with it.
NicksGamingStuff
NicksGamingStuff
Joined: Feb 2, 2010
  • Threads: 48
  • Posts: 829
February 1st, 2011 at 10:50:07 PM permalink
The worst one is the Fortune Bonus on Pai Gow Poker, everyone plays that religiously, sometimes $5-$10 or more to get the envy bonus, I will toss a buck here and there for fun, more often than not I never get anything on it, exactly how the casino makes their money off of it, the additional Progressive is also an incentive that many people love to play!
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
  • Threads: 65
  • Posts: 3412
February 1st, 2011 at 11:07:08 PM permalink
Quote: NicksGamingStuff

The worst one is the Fortune Bonus on Pai Gow Poker, everyone plays that religiously, sometimes $5-$10 or more to get the envy bonus, I will toss a buck here and there for fun, more often than not I never get anything on it, exactly how the casino makes their money off of it, the additional Progressive is also an incentive that many people love to play!



Actually, the Fortune Bonus, with the best paytable, isn't much worse than the basic pai gow bet, and a $5 bet on a full table, with the Envy bonus, actually becomes a BETTER bet than the basic bet.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
P90
P90
Joined: Jan 8, 2011
  • Threads: 12
  • Posts: 1703
February 1st, 2011 at 11:51:50 PM permalink
Quote: newbie49

Typical side bet house edge range from 3% to 10% per cent. Some side bet go up to 30%.
Why casino charge such a high per cent? I think >5% is uncalled for? Even at >3% I think is a bit dear.


Better ask: why not?
Side bets are usually used in low-edge, high-variance games, where player's bankroll can end up being padded almost as easily as blown. A side bet serves to let the player donate his money to the casino faster, while offering palatable rules for the main game. And as for players losing too much, they lose or win on the main game - the side bet is just on the side. It can gradually suck the money out without giving the feeling of loss, much like insects that anesthetize the bite point.
Resist ANFO Boston PRISM Stormfront IRA Freedom CIA Obama
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
  • Threads: 115
  • Posts: 5692
February 2nd, 2011 at 1:40:41 AM permalink
Good point, P90.
Also, the Main bet in PGP is always less than the bonus bet in terms of HE, even accounting for envy, but its not bad; it's reasonable enough in terms of HE.
Basically, game designers look for 2-3% on the main (flat) bet and 4%-9% on the side bets, and 20%-50% on progressive payout tables because multi-level payouts and their high variance can also produce hard swings against the house. Three card poker dumped with its original pair-plus table.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
  • Threads: 228
  • Posts: 12530
February 2nd, 2011 at 4:45:55 AM permalink
Quote: newbie49

Typical side bet house edge range from 3% to 10% per cent. Some side bet go up to 30%.

Why casino charge such a high per cent? I think >5% is uncalled for? Even at >3% I think is a bit dear.

I mean casinos can charge 3% on blackjack or triple zeros on roulette, but casinos choose not to do it. Probably because it is not fun for the players if they experience too much losing sessions. It is better for the casino to charge a low edge, but milk the player over a longer period.

Why not so on side bets? I hear quite common on tables when a player says to another: 'never place a bet on xxx, it is a sucker bet'. Why not make all side bet around 2%?



For the same reason they have a "resort fee" and airlines now charge for bags. People accept it more than if you change the main rules. So instead of addding the third zero they put in abuse people enjoy--"lucky ladies bet? Thank you sir, may I have another?" I say let them keep doing it that way, the fool and his money were lucky enough to get together in the first place.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
pocketaces
pocketaces
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 158
February 2nd, 2011 at 6:15:39 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

For the same reason they have a "resort fee" and airlines now charge for bags. People accept it more than if you change the main rules. So instead of addding the third zero they put in abuse people enjoy--"lucky ladies bet? Thank you sir, may I have another?" I say let them keep doing it that way, the fool and his money were lucky enough to get together in the first place.



I agree, however it should be pointed out that in the case of lucky ladies, the HA is necessarily high to thwart counters. This particular bet would be extremely vulnerable to advantage play at even a regular side-bet house edge (meaning the same winning hands with a better paytable).
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
  • Threads: 265
  • Posts: 14484
February 2nd, 2011 at 6:49:58 AM permalink
Dealers sometimes say that side bets suck up what dealers might otherwise get in tips, perhaps that a major advantage to the casino. The side bets offer an attractive payoff but at a low probability of its taking place. Its a successful come-on because a great many people want the lure of fantastic returns such as one measely quarter going into the slot machine and suddenly they own the whole casino.

Its obvious the side bets can and will survive despite sharpies knowing to avoid it. So its just one more way of milking more money out of a player. Offer One Dollar Blackjack but also offer all these ridiculous side bets... and its going to be a profitable table.
gambler
gambler
Joined: Jan 11, 2010
  • Threads: 112
  • Posts: 483
February 2nd, 2011 at 8:15:16 AM permalink
I actually think that a lot of players don't understand what the house advantage is for a lot of these side bets.

Take craps, for example. You are new to the game and you see an "old timer" craps player making all sorts of prop bets in the center of the table. Maybe the old timer wins a couple of hard 6s and hard 8s. Either way, they are having fun, hooting and hollering, and seem to know what they are doing. So you decide, hey if the "experienced" craps player knows what they are doing, maybe I should copy them... After all, the house edge can't be more then 2 or 3%... right?

I bet if you go around and ask a hundred players who play the hardways, or the craps check, etc. what the house edge is, the vast majority would not be able to tell you. My guess is that they think the house edge is about 3% to 5% at most.

The hard part is that we are posting on a forum of people who are already educated about casino games and house edges or who want to learn and understand more. The average Joe wants to have a good time, and will copy what other more "experienced" players are doing just to fit in.

  • Jump to: