richodude
richodude
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April 28th, 2023 at 5:01:03 PM permalink
My parents taught me this version of solitaire that supposedly was played in casinos. I've looked online and see no version of solitaire similar to this or a name that matches. I can't imagine the procedures for this either but here's the rules

The Object:
Get rid of all 52 cards by forming 4 'trains' comprised of a single unique suit.

The Setup:
  • Start with a standard 52 card deck and wager the required $50
  • Deal out 4 piles with 3 downcards each and 1 upcard on each leaving 4 cards in each pile. Piles should be placed in a vertical line on the left of your play area.
  • Deal an upcard and place it on the top left of the play area, just to the right of the top pile. This will be the start of your first 'train'


The Play:
  • Place the remaining pack face down in your hand and peel off the top 3 cards and flip them over. If the top card can play on a train, you must play it (is an alleged casino rule. You may want to pass on a card to ensure a different order of the pack next time around). If the top card is the same rank as the start of another train, you may start another train by placing it below the other, to the right of the pile.
  • In order for a card to be played on a train, it must A be of the same suit as the train's start, and B the rank must be on all the trains above it (if any)
  • At any point, you can play from your piles on the left, replacing played cards by flipping the topmost downcard
  • Continue cycling by peeling 3 cards off the pack and placing the on top of the discards, you may only ever play the top discard.
  • When you reach the end of the pack, pick up the discards and cycle through it again as it is your new pack. DO NOT SHUFFLE
  • You many only cycle through the pack 3 times (including the first cycle)


The score:
  • Once you have either cycled through the pack 3 times, ran out of moves, or have discarded everything, the game is over.
  • You are payed $5 for every train you started. You are paid $1 for every card on the top train, excluding the starting card. Then $2 for every card on the 2nd train (excluding the starting card) and $3 for the 3rd and $4 for the 4th.
  • If you discarded all 52 cards, you skip the payout and are awarded $500 as a jackpot



notice how I cannot play the 3 of Hearts because no 3 of clubs has been played. Likewise, the 4 of diamonds from the pack cannot be played because BOTH the club and heart 4 must already be played.

In this game I would've won $37 (a $13 loss) and the breakdown goes $20 for the trains ($5 for each jack), then $8 for the clubs, $6 for the hearts, $3 for the diamond, and $0 for the spades


This is definitely my favorite version of solitaire and would like to know what you guys think. Maybe even find out the house edge on this?
Dieter
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Dieter
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April 28th, 2023 at 6:18:33 PM permalink
This looks like a variant of Canfield.

Edit: The gambling mechanics look rather like Canfield. The gameplay... is otherwise.
May the cards fall in your favor.
Dieter
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Dieter
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April 28th, 2023 at 6:40:20 PM permalink
The closest similarity I can find is Duchess (Glenwood), but there are some clear differences.

The one pass by-ones or three passes by-threes deal is, I think, a common adaptation between "casual" and casino play.
The 10 for 1 completion payoff does seem rich for this game.
May the cards fall in your favor.
richodude
richodude
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April 29th, 2023 at 1:51:56 AM permalink
Quote: Dieter

The closest similarity I can find is Duchess (Glenwood), but there are some clear differences.

The one pass by-ones or three passes by-threes deal is, I think, a common adaptation between "casual" and casino play.
The 10 for 1 completion payoff does seem rich for this game.
link to original post



unfortunately, neither game's play resembles mine. We often play unlimited passes by-ones which results in a win nearly every game, but I find the casino rules to have a much more rewarding win. I find the 10 for 1 payoff high as well, since I can win maybe every 20 goes give or take a magnitude :). The number $500 if I remember was just thrown randomly so I don't doubt it being incorrect. We always play casually where the object is just to see if you can win or at least profit from the imaginary $50 wagered
Dieter
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Dieter
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April 29th, 2023 at 2:34:27 AM permalink
OK, I think I see.

If I'm breaking it down right...
4 reserve piles (3 cards down, 1 up)
4 foundations, descending, suited, starting rank selected by deal rather than rule
no tableau play


I do seem to remember dozens of books of hundreds of solitaire variations, each varying only slightly from the next by a minor twist. Some of them seemed to have been created to write filler articles - pick a base game, then throw darts at the wall to select novel rules, and slap a name on it from a tidbit of overheard conversation.
This particular game's layout feels like it was optimized for a tray table.
It still feels like a Canfield type, but I can't remember which group of games usually takes the tableau play out (those games did not amuse me, so I kept away from them).
May the cards fall in your favor.
ThatDonGuy
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April 29th, 2023 at 9:51:28 AM permalink
Quote: Dieter

OK, I think I see.

If I'm breaking it down right...
4 reserve piles (3 cards down, 1 up)
4 foundations, descending, suited, starting rank selected by deal rather than rule
no tableau play
link to original post


Not descending. Other than the forced value of the first card, there is no order in each foundation.
You cannot play a card onto the second foundation unless that rank is already in the first one.
You cannot play a card onto the third foundation unless that rank is already in both the first and second ones.
You cannot play a card onto the fourth foundation unless that rank is already in all three of the others. (In the photo, had the 8 of diamonds been on the third foundation, then the 8 of spades could be played onto the fourth foundation.)
Dieter
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Dieter
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April 29th, 2023 at 10:26:00 AM permalink
That is a most unusual rule.of play.
May the cards fall in your favor.
richodude
richodude
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April 29th, 2023 at 12:58:22 PM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

Quote: Dieter

OK, I think I see.

If I'm breaking it down right...
4 reserve piles (3 cards down, 1 up)
4 foundations, descending, suited, starting rank selected by deal rather than rule
no tableau play
link to original post


Not descending. Other than the forced value of the first card, there is no order in each foundation.
You cannot play a card onto the second foundation unless that rank is already in the first one.
You cannot play a card onto the third foundation unless that rank is already in both the first and second ones.
You cannot play a card onto the fourth foundation unless that rank is already in all three of the others. (In the photo, had the 8 of diamonds been on the third foundation, then the 8 of spades could be played onto the fourth foundation.)
link to original post



Exactly right!
richodude
richodude
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April 29th, 2023 at 1:06:19 PM permalink
Quote: Dieter

OK, I think I see.

If I'm breaking it down right...
4 reserve piles (3 cards down, 1 up)
4 foundations, descending, suited, starting rank selected by deal rather than rule
no tableau play


I do seem to remember dozens of books of hundreds of solitaire variations, each varying only slightly from the next by a minor twist. Some of them seemed to have been created to write filler articles - pick a base game, then throw darts at the wall to select novel rules, and slap a name on it from a tidbit of overheard conversation.
This particular game's layout feels like it was optimized for a tray table.
It still feels like a Canfield type, but I can't remember which group of games usually takes the tableau play out (those games did not amuse me, so I kept away from them).
link to original post



mostly correct.
"4 reserve piles (3 cards down, 1 up)" Yes!
"4 foundations, ... , suited, starting rank selected by deal rather than rule" Yes! To clarify only the first foundation will start with a card
"descending" If by this you mean if the first card is a K, then the foundation must go Q,J,10,9... then no. Other than the foundation card, there is no order as explained in the post below.
"no tableau play" Pardon my French, but if you mean moving cards around as is the main idea in classic solitaire, then this would be correct!

I get where you could similarize Canfield with your explanation, except the ranks follow no explicit order besides the foundation

You obviously also seem more versed in solitaire than me :) Thank you for all your research. I'm just looking to see if the prophecy is true
JoeTheDragon
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May 1st, 2023 at 10:11:51 PM permalink
I think this was called osmosis solitaire
richodude
richodude
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May 1st, 2023 at 11:03:23 PM permalink
Quote: JoeTheDragon

I think this was called osmosis solitaire
link to original post



almost! This is by far the closest thing to it yet. The only difference being in Osmosis you can start a foundation with any rank as long as it matches a rank above, whereas in the game I describe, the foundation must be the same card on each train. Thank you for pointing this game out

Edit: I based my response off of the first game demo result on a google search. After watching 2 other youtube tutorials, I believe you are correct! Of the 3 sources, none were the same, but 1 exactly matches mine! The other video had identical foundation ranks but allowed foundations to be added to as long as the rank was used at least once. Ex. if foundation 1 (top) contained a King but foundation 2 did not, you could still play a king in foundation 3 or 4 as long as the foundation was already started. My version requires each foundation above to contain the rank. After searching (not too much) further, still nothing about casino play. The word isn't even referenced on the Wikipedia page about it.

As you can see, there are many variations to this game which is already a variation of a much broader game. Makes me wonder if one day my dad added a gambling aspect and it happened to work out. Thanks again Joe!
Last edited by: richodude on May 1, 2023
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