KatrinaO
KatrinaO
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September 22nd, 2022 at 11:56:30 PM permalink
Hi everyone.

I have some casinos around me that constantly offer reward points multipliers, apparently this seems to be common practice throughout the country.

I've seen them being advertised as "up to". Such as "Up to 10x, up to 100x", etc.

I'm wondering about two things, the first one is what are your experiences with these mystery multipliers? Do you actually get good multipliers or do the bulk of your swipes land in the 2x/3x realm?

The second is regarding the legality of the promotion. Is the randomness being audited? Supposedly all games in a casino must be audited by the gaming commission for true randomness. I wonder if that's the case here.

I wonder if the "mystery" is actually just a non-random sham, or semi-random twisted way of comping bad players. As we know, casinos keep track of your win/loss and know what games you played and how well you performed on them. Basically I suspect the players who play low RTP games, Players who are unskilled at skill based games, and Players of higher tiers (when not specified by the promotion) are actually getting the higher multipliers. In other words, I suspect the elite tier slot players / video poker players who discard pat hands / blackjack players who split 10s/ Triple 0 roulette players, etc are getting better multipliers than those of us playing by the strategies mentioned on Wizard of Odds website.

Because well... if the multipliers are truly random and audited to be so... 100x reward points can easily turn a lot of games into +EV games.
Dieter
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Dieter
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camaplIWannaBeAP
September 23rd, 2022 at 4:11:38 AM permalink
Welcome to the forum.

I usually get one of the two lowest value prizes.
May the cards fall in your favor.
DRich
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camaplMukke
September 23rd, 2022 at 4:19:26 AM permalink
As I have posted before, as someone that has programmed the promotion functionality for these type of promos, they are random but still set up to give the best customers the highest chance of getting a big multiplier.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
camapl
camapl
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September 23rd, 2022 at 12:50:02 PM permalink
Quote: KatrinaO

Hi everyone.

I have some casinos around me that constantly offer reward points multipliers, apparently this seems to be common practice throughout the country.

I've seen them being advertised as "up to". Such as "Up to 10x, up to 100x", etc.

I'm wondering about two things, the first one is what are your experiences with these mystery multipliers? Do you actually get good multipliers or do the bulk of your swipes land in the 2x/3x realm?

The second is regarding the legality of the promotion. Is the randomness being audited? Supposedly all games in a casino must be audited by the gaming commission for true randomness. I wonder if that's the case here.

I wonder if the "mystery" is actually just a non-random sham, or semi-random twisted way of comping bad players. As we know, casinos keep track of your win/loss and know what games you played and how well you performed on them. Basically I suspect the players who play low RTP games, Players who are unskilled at skill based games, and Players of higher tiers (when not specified by the promotion) are actually getting the higher multipliers. In other words, I suspect the elite tier slot players / video poker players who discard pat hands / blackjack players who split 10s/ Triple 0 roulette players, etc are getting better multipliers than those of us playing by the strategies mentioned on Wizard of Odds website.

Because well... if the multipliers are truly random and audited to be so... 100x reward points can easily turn a lot of games into +EV games.
link to original post



Welcome! That’s a good first question.

Others, like DRich, may know more, but I doubt that they are looking at “quality of play”; however, they could be looking at more than just total coin in/card level. Such metrics as theoretical and/or actual losses (or gains) “could” come into play, if not others. These would make it seem like they are targeting sharp players (although indirectly). Imagine an average VP or slot player who is having a good run on Royals or other jackpots, who always gets a lower multiplier or prize. Conversely, you could have an AP on a bad run (at this house), who gets good multipliers or prizes. Or it really could just be by tier…
Expectation is the root of all heartache.
DRich
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September 23rd, 2022 at 1:08:47 PM permalink
Quote: camapl

Quote: KatrinaO

Hi everyone.

I have some casinos around me that constantly offer reward points multipliers, apparently this seems to be common practice throughout the country.

I've seen them being advertised as "up to". Such as "Up to 10x, up to 100x", etc.

I'm wondering about two things, the first one is what are your experiences with these mystery multipliers? Do you actually get good multipliers or do the bulk of your swipes land in the 2x/3x realm?

The second is regarding the legality of the promotion. Is the randomness being audited? Supposedly all games in a casino must be audited by the gaming commission for true randomness. I wonder if that's the case here.

I wonder if the "mystery" is actually just a non-random sham, or semi-random twisted way of comping bad players. As we know, casinos keep track of your win/loss and know what games you played and how well you performed on them. Basically I suspect the players who play low RTP games, Players who are unskilled at skill based games, and Players of higher tiers (when not specified by the promotion) are actually getting the higher multipliers. In other words, I suspect the elite tier slot players / video poker players who discard pat hands / blackjack players who split 10s/ Triple 0 roulette players, etc are getting better multipliers than those of us playing by the strategies mentioned on Wizard of Odds website.

Because well... if the multipliers are truly random and audited to be so... 100x reward points can easily turn a lot of games into +EV games.
link to original post



Welcome! That’s a good first question.

Others, like DRich, may know more, but I doubt that they are looking at “quality of play”; however, they could be looking at more than just total coin in/card level. Such metrics as theoretical and/or actual losses (or gains) “could” come into play, if not others. These would make it seem like they are targeting sharp players (although indirectly). Imagine an average VP or slot player who is having a good run on Royals or other jackpots, who always gets a lower multiplier or prize. Conversely, you could have an AP on a bad run (at this house), who gets good multipliers or prizes. Or it really could just be by tier…
link to original post



The lazy places seem to just use coin in as the metric. I would guess most did like we did and used theoretical over some period of time. Either Average Daily Theo or Average Monthly Theo.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
ViennaPizza
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September 23rd, 2022 at 2:25:50 PM permalink
Quote: Dieter


I usually get one of the two lowest value prizes.
link to original post



#Metoo
Brickapotamus
Brickapotamus
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September 23rd, 2022 at 7:03:37 PM permalink
I often get one of lowest, however when the range is not extremely high ie 2X to 10X instead of up to 50X or 100X

I have gotten the max 10X or middle like 5X or 7X a reasonable amount of times.

Never received a huge one like 50X plus that would make most games positive EV
KatrinaO
KatrinaO
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September 24th, 2022 at 1:50:55 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

As I have posted before, as someone that has programmed the promotion functionality for these type of promos, they are random but still set up to give the best customers the highest chance of getting a big multiplier.
link to original post



Thanks everyone for sharing your personal experiences. DRich can you link me to the threads/posts you're referring to?
DRich
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September 24th, 2022 at 4:26:29 AM permalink
Quote: KatrinaO

Quote: DRich

As I have posted before, as someone that has programmed the promotion functionality for these type of promos, they are random but still set up to give the best customers the highest chance of getting a big multiplier.
link to original post



Thanks everyone for sharing your personal experiences. DRich can you link me to the threads/posts you're referring to?
link to original post



Sorry, I don't have those links handy but they will be somewhere in the last ten years of posts on this site. I am pretty sure there was one within the last month or so.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
IWannaBeAP
IWannaBeAP
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September 24th, 2022 at 10:31:55 AM permalink
Would 100x make slots +EV too lol, because then I can just autospin and not do such hard work on video poker
DRich
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September 24th, 2022 at 10:34:39 AM permalink
Quote: IWannaBeAP

Would 100x make slots +EV too lol, because then I can just autospin and not do such hard work on video poker
link to original post



I really doubt if 100x would make most slots +EV. The majority of slots are at 10%-14% hold these days.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
IWannaBeAP
IWannaBeAP
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September 24th, 2022 at 11:05:16 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

Quote: IWannaBeAP

Would 100x make slots +EV too lol, because then I can just autospin and not do such hard work on video poker
link to original post



I really doubt if 100x would make most slots +EV. The majority of slots are at 10%-14% hold these days.
link to original post



Well total rewards is 1 reward point per $5 coin-in, and 1 point is worth $0.01, so at 100x that's basically +20% to slots EV and +10% to VP EV
IWannaBeAP
IWannaBeAP
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September 24th, 2022 at 2:50:36 PM permalink
Come to think of it DRich, I have a hard time imagining skill isn't a factor here. +10% to VP EV can easily clean out the casino by a professional quick and accurate VP player.

I did some rough calculations.

Suppose the VPs are normally 98%. And the person bets $50 per round on multiline, 20 rounds a minute, at +8% EV. That's $115200 profit over a 24 hour day. I can't see the casino handing someone a 100x multiplier unless they're absolutely sure they're not an AP
heatmap
heatmap
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IWannaBeAPKatrinaO
September 24th, 2022 at 5:35:13 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

As I have posted before, as someone that has programmed the promotion functionality for these type of promos, they are random but still set up to give the best customers the highest chance of getting a big multiplier.
link to original post



just saving this for scientific purposes
Brickapotamus
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September 25th, 2022 at 1:43:28 PM permalink
Quote: IWannaBeAP

Come to think of it DRich, I have a hard time imagining skill isn't a factor here. +10% to VP EV can easily clean out the casino by a professional quick and accurate VP player.

I did some rough calculations.

Suppose the VPs are normally 98%. And the person bets $50 per round on multiline, 20 rounds a minute, at +8% EV. That's $115200 profit over a 24 hour day. I can't see the casino handing someone a 100x multiplier unless they're absolutely sure they're not an AP
link to original post



May not always be the case but I’ve noticed that everyplace that has an insanely large multiplier possible almost always has in the fine print that it applies to slot machines only & not VP.
KatrinaO
KatrinaO
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September 25th, 2022 at 6:08:41 PM permalink
Quote: Brickapotamus

May not always be the case but I’ve noticed that everyplace that has an insanely large multiplier possible almost always has in the fine print that it applies to slot machines only & not VP.



Quote: IWannaBeAP

Well total rewards is 1 reward point per $5 coin-in, and 1 point is worth $0.01, so at 100x that's basically +20% to slots EV and +10% to VP EV



I see that new users can't post links or pictures for screenshot. So I'll just copy the words of the promotional email. Yes these are Caesars reward credits.

"Wednesdays and Thursdays
Swipe your Caesars Rewards® card each promotional day at a Harrah's Promotional Kiosk from 6am - 6am to receive a GUARANTEED mystery Reward Credit Multiplier - 3X up to 100X"

"Friday, October 21 and Saturday, October 22
Diamond and Seven Stars guests who swipe their Caesars Rewards card each promotional day at a Harrah's Promotions Kiosk from 6am - 6am will receive a NEW mystery Tier Credit Multiplier - 3X up to 10X."

"Terms:
Reward Credit Multipliers: Not valid on e-Table Games or Sports or Race Wagers. Guests must swipe during the promotional period to receive Reward Credit Multiplier. Multiplier will apply to play at promotion specific property only on day it was earned. Reward Credits® will be added within seven days.

Diamond & Seven Stars Tier Credit Multiplier: Must activate at the Promotions Kiosks to receive the Tier Credit Multiplier on earned Tier Credits only. A maximum amount of 12,500 Tier Credits can be earned each promotional day. Multiplier will apply to play at Harrah’s on day it was earned. Not valid on e-Table Games or Sports or Race Wagers. Tier Credits will be added within 14 business days."

Also, we don't have any good video poker here. The best we have is 9/6 DDB
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