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3 votes (27.27%)
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11 members have voted

Wizard
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Wizard
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August 30th, 2016 at 3:24:41 PM permalink
This game has been touched on in the THREE MORE NV TRIALS thread, but deserves a thread of its own.

This is a game that has WoV all over it. It was invented by our own Switch. The mathematician of record is our own CrystalMath. The game is marketed, and I think owned, by ShuffleMaster, who is represented by Pacman. Then there is my own work analyzing and writing about the game.

I've been busy analyzing the game in Excel and happy to say it comes in very close agreement to the math report by CrystalMath, who did a proper combinatorial analysis.

With all the introductions out of the way, please see my new page on Deal & Reveal.

As always, I welcome questions, comments, and especially corrections.

The question for the forum is would you play Deal & Reveal?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
charliepatrick
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August 30th, 2016 at 4:30:00 PM permalink
Looks interesting - btw when the dealer has an Ace and thrown away the first picture does the dealer peek a second time? I assume so from the fact you double 11vsA. I like the fact that occasionally you be up against a double exposure style 13-16.

What will be interesting is if the game came to the UK where, for arguments sake, the dealer draws after all players have acted and presumably discards the first picture but would keep the second to make a BJ, also hitting soft 17 isn't usually done in the UK.
Wizard
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Wizard
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August 30th, 2016 at 5:46:46 PM permalink
Quote: charliepatrick

when the dealer has an Ace and thrown away the first picture does the dealer peek a second time? I assume so from the fact you double 11vsA. I like the fact that occasionally you be up against a double exposure style 13-16..



Yes, he peeks, but doesn't reveal anything if there isn't a blackjack.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
LoneStarHorse
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August 30th, 2016 at 6:10:55 PM permalink
Looks very interesting, I would like to play it when it comes to my area casino
Joeshlabotnik
Joeshlabotnik
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August 30th, 2016 at 9:17:19 PM permalink
It's interesting--it seems to me that this game would be much more volatile than regular BJ, with a large portion of the player's win heavily dependent on whether the 2s through 6s the dealer dealt himself wound up being upcards or downcards.

Another element that could really hurt you if you get cold at this game is the push-22 rule. Also, I assume that a player blackjack only pays even money?

I probably wouldn't play this because I hate blackjack in general.
DJTeddyBear
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August 31st, 2016 at 6:54:11 AM permalink
Looks interesting.

Yeah, I'd try it. I've also tried (and like) Free Bet BJ.

This has a similar feel, along with the familiar 22 push function (You're getting a lot of mileage out of that, aren't you Geoff? LOL.)

---

I noticed two problems with the article.

When clicking on the Rack Card image, a SMALLER version of the rack card appears. This may be a function/limitation of my iPhone. Note that this isn't a problem since it seems that the same info is contained within the article.

There is a typo in this sentence:
Quote:

The next table shows the strategy against one dealer up card, which is the same as in regular blackjack against for or more decks and the dealer hits a soft 17.

That "for" should be "four".
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
sevencard2003
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September 5th, 2016 at 12:24:32 PM permalink
why create such a horrible game with a high house edge of 1.11? most BJ is like 0.50 or less do u think the readers of this forum dumb enough to play it?
sevencard2003.blogspot.com
Paigowdan
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September 5th, 2016 at 2:00:27 PM permalink
Quote: sevencard2003

why create such a horrible game with a high house edge of 1.11? most BJ is like 0.50 or less do u think the readers of this forum dumb enough to play it?


First of all, the game was not released for the few who come here. It was released for the "general" American playing population, most of whom aren't that dumb simply because they like to gamble, and few of whom would ever come here.

Second, 1% isn't that high of a house edge, even for a fast game like blackjack. A game has to neither bleed it operator nor gouge the customer, and 1% of a house edge seems to be about right, especially when you consider that 6:5 Blackjack is often twice this house edge, and also gets played.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
charliepatrick
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September 5th, 2016 at 2:23:42 PM permalink
^ I agree that people like to have fun with their gambling and a 1% HE for a BJ variant isn't that bad.

At the end of the day, do people like the fun part given it costs them more and will casinos like it as an alternative bearing in mind it probably replaces a normal BJ table? It might cost a good player twice as much, but for instance FreeBet probably doesn't cost the average player much more as the Split/Double decisions are all obvious (take the freebies).

3CP has HE over 2% but is very popular in the UK, and most people play the side bet. I suspect if there's a chance of a nice payout and your money doesn't burn out too quickly if you don't get a good hand, a HE of 1-2% for the base game is acceptable.
DJTeddyBear
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September 5th, 2016 at 3:02:44 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

There is a typo in this sentence:

Quote:

The next table shows the strategy against one dealer up card, which is the same as in regular blackjack against for or more decks and the dealer hits a soft 17.

That "for" should be "four".

Your effort to fix it made it worse.

"four or more" became "for four more."
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
CrystalMath
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September 5th, 2016 at 3:04:31 PM permalink
Quote: Joeshlabotnik

It's interesting--it seems to me that this game would be much more volatile than regular BJ, with a large portion of the player's win heavily dependent on whether the 2s through 6s the dealer dealt himself wound up being upcards or downcards.

Another element that could really hurt you if you get cold at this game is the push-22 rule. Also, I assume that a player blackjack only pays even money?

I probably wouldn't play this because I hate blackjack in general.



Blackjack pays 3:2

I'll play while I'm at G2E.
I heart Crystal Math.
DJTeddyBear
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September 5th, 2016 at 3:09:55 PM permalink
Quote: sevencard2003

why create such a horrible game with a high house edge of 1.11? most BJ is like 0.50 or less do u think the readers of this forum dumb enough to play it?

Maybe not all, but certainly some of us.

We're not all APs here. Some of us gamble just for fun / entertainment, with the hope of winning a couple bucks at the same time.

Please don't call us "dumb."


And besides, the WoO site is THE go to reference site for a lot of people - industry insiders, serious gamblers, and recreational gamblers alike.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Paigowdan
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September 5th, 2016 at 4:44:06 PM permalink
Quote: charliepatrick

^ I agree that people like to have fun with their gambling and a 1% HE for a BJ variant isn't that bad.

At the end of the day, do people like the fun part given it costs them more and will casinos like it as an alternative bearing in mind it probably replaces a normal BJ table? It might cost a good player twice as much, but for instance FreeBet probably doesn't cost the average player much more as the Split/Double decisions are all obvious (take the freebies).


I think so. Last night, I went for the first time to the Steakhouse at the Railroad Pass casino with a friend of mine. It was $100 for two, - when we could have hung out and had DiGiorino's Pizza or something. Excuse the product placement over here, but we're doing the same thing here in a casino when we play the casino games that we choose: we play UTH or DJ Wild or PGP or Freebet BJ because we want that, and few of us say "Aha! This game's house edge is 1.2874%, but that game's house edge is 1.8732% !! Clearly one is a superior game!"

On a proprietary product that has license fees, a 12% table hold isn't going to cut it for the operator, and fewer operators count on basic 0.5% 3:2 BJ. If a game has a house edge that is in range for it, I then look at the gimmick or humdinger it offers me as a player. If I like the offering, I play it, and I also play straight-up 3:2 BJ. I'll play a fun game with a 2% to 3% house edge, and skip a 0.5% game if it bores me. I'll even parlay hardways at craps for double-digit HE's, and I'll take down $500 from a $5 initial bet if I see two hard 8's.

If I win, the difference in winnings is small, and if I lose, the whole bet gets taken in in its entirety on that play anyway. Gamblers play to win a hand in a more fun fashion than before, all things being fair enough to them otherwise.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
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