Oklahoma lottery website rigged?
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Poll
 | 38 votes (88.37%) | ||
| | 1 vote (2.32%) | ||
| | 3 votes (6.97%) | ||
| | 1 vote (2.32%) |
43 members have voted
August 1st, 2013 at 5:29:56 PM
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Back in February somebody wrote to me alleging that the Powerball simulator on the Oklahoma Lottery web site was rigged in the players favor. He wrote that playing five tickets at a time he usually won the jackpot within a few tries.
So, I tried it myself. I played five rounds of five tickets each, without the PowerPlay option. Here are my results:
Tickets 1-5: $7 win
Tickets 6-10: $10,000 win
Tickets 11-15: $7 win
Tickets 16-20: $100 win
Tickets 21-25: Powerball jackpot win
For those of you not familiar with the Powerball jackpot, it is BIG. Currently at $290 million.
Letting players deliberately win in fun mode is something I've blacklisted online casinos for. In this case the bias is so obvious it is hard to take this demo seriously. Still, I think it is unethical for the Oklahoma Lottery to put a non-random game on their web site, which might lull weak-minded players into thinking they had a better chance to win than they really did.
Here are screenshots of my two big wins.
The question for the poll is do you think this is unethical?
So, I tried it myself. I played five rounds of five tickets each, without the PowerPlay option. Here are my results:
Tickets 1-5: $7 win
Tickets 6-10: $10,000 win
Tickets 11-15: $7 win
Tickets 16-20: $100 win
Tickets 21-25: Powerball jackpot win
For those of you not familiar with the Powerball jackpot, it is BIG. Currently at $290 million.
Letting players deliberately win in fun mode is something I've blacklisted online casinos for. In this case the bias is so obvious it is hard to take this demo seriously. Still, I think it is unethical for the Oklahoma Lottery to put a non-random game on their web site, which might lull weak-minded players into thinking they had a better chance to win than they really did.
Here are screenshots of my two big wins.
The question for the poll is do you think this is unethical?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
August 1st, 2013 at 5:37:43 PM
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Unethical but hilarious.
"Scientists tell us that the fastest animal on earth, with a top speed of 120 feet per second, is a cow that has been dropped out of a helicopter."
August 1st, 2013 at 5:43:48 PM
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Wow, just played 5 tickets on each of 3 drawings. Won $10,000 each time. Why doesn't that ever happen in real life??
I don't know what to think about whether this is ethical. On the one hand, these results are insane. On the other hand, they do have the correct odds posted right on the page in normal sized font and in plain view.
I don't know what to think about whether this is ethical. On the one hand, these results are insane. On the other hand, they do have the correct odds posted right on the page in normal sized font and in plain view.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
August 1st, 2013 at 5:58:03 PM
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I voted other. It clearly says it's for demo purposes only, maybe the thinking is, it explains how to win better??
August 1st, 2013 at 6:06:41 PM
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It's totally unethical, and a perfect illustration of why the government should not be in the lottery business. The lottery is a sucker bet. Do we really want the government encouraging its citizens to dump money into a sucker bet? The irony is that our public schools are dependent on ignorant gamblers losing money.
August 1st, 2013 at 6:31:43 PM
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The office that I'm working in currently did a powerball pool. $4/per person. Everybody is a licensed attorney (!). I really did not want to throw in, but was pressured into it.
Jackpot is at $290m now.
Jackpot is at $290m now.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
August 1st, 2013 at 6:42:56 PM
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deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
August 1st, 2013 at 8:04:01 PM
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You suckers are wasting virtual money, I won $10,000 on one ticket!
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
August 1st, 2013 at 9:16:41 PM
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I player 5 number combinations per ticket for ten draws. No numbers were duplicated. They were:
1-2-3-4-5 PB:1
8-9-10-11-12 PB:2
15-16-17-18-19 PB:3
23-24-25-26-27 PB:4
29-20-31-32-33 PB:5
My results:
1st drawing 5/5 no PB - $1 million
2nd drawing 3/5 yes PB - $100
3rd drawing 5/5 yes PB - Jackpot
4th drawing 5/5 yes PB - Jackpot
5th drawing 5/5 yes PB - Jackpot
6th drawing 4/5 no PB - $100
7th drawing 3/5 yes PB - $100
8th drawing 5/5 no PB - $1 million
9th drawing 5/5 no PB - $1 million
10th drawing 4/5 no PB - $100
Each card won. I came up with a 26 billion-1 shot or so there. The three jackpots in a row is roughly 22,000,000,000,000,000,000 -1 if my math is right but I am happy to yield the floor to better mathematicians here.
1-2-3-4-5 PB:1
8-9-10-11-12 PB:2
15-16-17-18-19 PB:3
23-24-25-26-27 PB:4
29-20-31-32-33 PB:5
My results:
1st drawing 5/5 no PB - $1 million
2nd drawing 3/5 yes PB - $100
3rd drawing 5/5 yes PB - Jackpot
4th drawing 5/5 yes PB - Jackpot
5th drawing 5/5 yes PB - Jackpot
6th drawing 4/5 no PB - $100
7th drawing 3/5 yes PB - $100
8th drawing 5/5 no PB - $1 million
9th drawing 5/5 no PB - $1 million
10th drawing 4/5 no PB - $100
Each card won. I came up with a 26 billion-1 shot or so there. The three jackpots in a row is roughly 22,000,000,000,000,000,000 -1 if my math is right but I am happy to yield the floor to better mathematicians here.
August 1st, 2013 at 10:20:14 PM
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I just noticed that a player that hits just the Powerball has a 55-1 chance of winning. How is that possible if there are only 35 Powerballs? Does the standard Powerball have 35 Powerballs? Are the standard numbers 1-59 like the simulator shows?
August 1st, 2013 at 10:39:39 PM
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Quote: PokeraddictI just noticed that a player that hits just the Powerball has a 55-1 chance of winning. How is that possible if there are only 35 Powerballs? Does the standard Powerball have 35 Powerballs? Are the standard numbers 1-59 like the simulator shows?
That is the probability of matching the Powerball number while simultaneously matching none of the other numbers. If you add together the probabilities of all the outcomes which match the Powerball number (0+1, 1+1, 2+1, 3+1, 4+1, 5+1), their combined probability is the expected 1 in 35.
August 1st, 2013 at 10:42:18 PM
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Since there is no "I'm a bigot" option I abstained from voting. On the other hand, to me unethical would be them giving you a one in 20,000 chance of winning on the simulator. Since they almost guarantee that you will win, it makes it so funny that it becomes un-unethical, if that makes sense. If anything, the typical lottery player would probably be mad that they wasted their luck on the simulator. I would also think that anyone who actually plays the lotto would probably play again and hopefully figure out that you win every time.
casino's money disappears
the execs worry when the wizard is near
He turns tears into joy
Everyone's happy when the wizard walks by
August 1st, 2013 at 11:52:13 PM
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A real demo would discourage 99% of people demonstrating how impossible and what a rip-off it is, so I vote rigged and also dishonest.
I am a robot.
August 2nd, 2013 at 12:45:51 AM
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Very bad on their part, imo. But it's probably was meant to more interactively illustrate the 9 different ways you can win. But they should have made that wayyyyyyy more clear.
(0+1, 1+1, 2+1, 3+0, 3+1, 4+0, 4+1, 5+0, 5+1)
I wouldn't be too shocked if the 9 outcomes were near equally likely. Although looking at pokeraddict's stats, possibly not.
(0+1, 1+1, 2+1, 3+0, 3+1, 4+0, 4+1, 5+0, 5+1)
I wouldn't be too shocked if the 9 outcomes were near equally likely. Although looking at pokeraddict's stats, possibly not.
August 2nd, 2013 at 2:48:16 AM
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http://www.uspoker.com/blog/is-the-oklahoma-lottery-powerball-simulator-rigged/5108/
There is my article on it. I will distribute the article in the next few hours. I welcome any and all feedback, especially as it pertains to my math.
There is my article on it. I will distribute the article in the next few hours. I welcome any and all feedback, especially as it pertains to my math.
August 2nd, 2013 at 5:26:45 AM
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I don't think any person would actually think it's that easy to win $10,000 or a jackpot. But I think there should just be a disclaimer on the website "website drawings not random, just a demonstration of ways to win" or something like that.
August 2nd, 2013 at 5:58:59 AM
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Quote: WizardThe question for the poll is do you think this is unethical?
Unethical? What sort of ethics applies? A man goes into a bar and sees an attractive young lady there, is he bound by ethics to go over and tell her he is a lazy bum who can't hold a job and is already married.
Its a portion of a website. That portion at least constitutes an advertisement inducing people to play the lottery.
Do you really think the "trial session" will say you lost and it was the rent money that you were playing with. That might be just as "realistic" as the unemployed loser in a singles bar.
The advertisement is to lure people who are on the verge of action to get off their duff and "take the plunge".
If some sweet young thing says to a young man "Okay, but just one kiss" ... do you really think the man has the slightest intention of stopping at that just one kiss? Get real!! Its like the barker outside the topless bar: He talks about youth and beauty and he does not mention the ugly broads that work there or their sweat and tattoos, the inflated prices and deflated egos of the poor tired drunks who patronize the place.
Even Nevada Gaming regulations allow for a promotional slot machine that is on the sidewalk out front to hit a jackpot every time.
The Lottery Commission in Oklahoma is not required to advertise: Ticket agencies in low income areas, most sales to the poor and mathematically challenged, zillions of discarded tickets on the floors and sidewalks, low-lifes hanging around all day long, politicians given an excuse to hide behind, disappointment.
That web page is a rigged come on for a vulnerable consumer and it doesn't appear to be anything but that.
August 2nd, 2013 at 6:05:49 AM
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deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
August 2nd, 2013 at 7:02:31 AM
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Quote: PokeraddictI player 5 number combinations per ticket for ten draws. No numbers were duplicated. They were:
1-2-3-4-5 PB:1
8-9-10-11-12 PB:2
15-16-17-18-19 PB:3
23-24-25-26-27 PB:4
29-20-31-32-33 PB:5
My results:
1st drawing 5/5 no PB - $1 million
2nd drawing 3/5 yes PB - $100
3rd drawing 5/5 yes PB - Jackpot
4th drawing 5/5 yes PB - Jackpot
5th drawing 5/5 yes PB - Jackpot
6th drawing 4/5 no PB - $100
7th drawing 3/5 yes PB - $100
8th drawing 5/5 no PB - $1 million
9th drawing 5/5 no PB - $1 million
10th drawing 4/5 no PB - $100
Each card won. I came up with a 26 billion-1 shot or so there. The three jackpots in a row is roughly 22,000,000,000,000,000,000 -1 if my math is right but I am happy to yield the floor to better mathematicians here.
I show the probability of 3 jackpots, 3 millions, four hundreds, and 40 losers is 1 in 189,353,245,666,317,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. This assumes the cards are independent, which is not exactly the case, since he deliberately chose different numbers per batch of five cards. But I think the independence assumption is minor compared to the magnitude of the wins.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
August 2nd, 2013 at 7:10:22 AM
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Quote: Pokeraddicthttp://www.uspoker.com/blog/is-the-oklahoma-lottery-powerball-simulator-rigged/5108/
There is my article on it. I will distribute the article in the next few hours. I welcome any and all feedback, especially as it pertains to my math.
Nice article, well-written.
I voted that it is unethical, not because I think that people will be going out in droves to liquidate their assets and buy Powerball tickets, but because if even one person is induced by these improbable results to go and try $2.00 on a single ticket, that's an ill-gotten $2.00, in my view. It's not a question of whether or not the average person will be fooled into thinking the likelihood of winning is better than it actually is, to me, it's a question of whether anyone can be fooled, and I believe that some people could.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
August 2nd, 2013 at 8:15:51 AM
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Yes, that is the viewpoint taken by many of our credit and collection laws... the protection of the ill-informed and unsophisticated consumer rather than the average consumer who is more knowledgeable.Quote: Mission146It's not a question of whether or not the average person will be fooled into thinking the likelihood of winning is better than it actually is, to me, it's a question of whether anyone can be fooled, and I believe that some people could.
Its an admirable stance to take but I see the lottery as essentially an enterprise riddled with overt deception of the ignorant and see no reason to impose on one tiny segment of the process a sense of common decency and fair play. Its just not a valid concept to say "thous shalt wash and clean a knife prior to stabbing someone with it" which is about what is happening with this "thou shalt not take by oppression of the weak and ignorant that lousy two dollars while you are taking the unjust millions by a different form of oppression".
August 2nd, 2013 at 8:27:21 AM
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Quote: FleaStiff
Its an admirable stance to take but I see the lottery as essentially an enterprise riddled with overt deception of the ignorant and see no reason to impose on one tiny segment of the process a sense of common decency and fair play. Its just not a valid concept to say "thous shalt wash and clean a knife prior to stabbing someone with it" which is about what is happening with this "thou shalt not take by oppression of the weak and ignorant that lousy two dollars while you are taking the unjust millions by a different form of oppression".
I must admit that I have no problem with the lottery process, overall. It's people buying entertainment at a tremendous House Edge, but what most of them are buying is the ability to dream. "You can't win if you don't play," as they say, so you get to walk around with your little piece of paper in your wallet all day(s) and imagine what you would do if you hit the big one.
Whatever the jackpot, it's true that the Reverse Martingale for the same $2.00 (if you can find such a minimum) has a lower House Edge and better probability of winning an equivalent jackpot, if you can find a casino that will take that kind of action once you reach a high-enough bet, but some gamblers probably couldn't tell you what a Reverse Martingale is and the lottery isn't even really for gamblers, anyway, otherwise they'd know they are getting theoretically killed and would try the $2.00 somewhere else.
Either way, it funds education, so the Government can take the money that would otherwise be going to education anyway and spend it on far less useful things, like their own salaries.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
August 2nd, 2013 at 9:56:58 AM
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I vote unethical.
When I was a teen the Washington State Lottery would hand out giant sized scratch tickets at their county fair booths. They always "won" the $10,000 prize or whatever it was. However in that case I think it was ok because the tickets were clearly a novelty. Now days they hand out little tools to use on your scratch tickets I think.
When I was a teen the Washington State Lottery would hand out giant sized scratch tickets at their county fair booths. They always "won" the $10,000 prize or whatever it was. However in that case I think it was ok because the tickets were clearly a novelty. Now days they hand out little tools to use on your scratch tickets I think.
August 2nd, 2013 at 10:27:21 AM
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The purpose of these simulators was to walk the reader/potential player through the process of playing one of these player pick games. The "simulator", as you refer to it, included the process of filling out a playslip, selecting numbers, checking for winning numbers and identifying the possible winning combinations on the payout chart. The "simulator" showed the players how the playslip looked and how they could select numbers; it showed how the resulting ticket would look; and gave them the opportunity to identify winning numbers and see how much those numbers would win - this protects them from potentially dishonest retail clerks. Most of the plays in this "simulator" are winners so that the player or potential player can see how all the components work together. It was not intended to be and was never advertised to be a random number generator for picking your game numbers. Nor was it created to entice anyone into spending their money to play these games. In all lotteries, the odds are clearly published and if you don't know what that means then I agree that you shouldn't be playing the games.
Regarding the comment from the reader who just played the "simulator", since they haven't been on the web site for a couple of weeks now, I would be interested to hear how you were able go out and play after reading the initial post from Wizard?
For the reader who asked about the 55:1 odds to get a Powerball number, there ARE 35 choices for the PowerBall. The odds are the likelihood that your winning numbers will match ONLY one of the Powerballs. If only one winning number were selected, then the odds would be 35:1. But, there is also the possibility that your winning numbers (5 white balls and the Powerball) will match more than just the Powerball. So, the odds that you will match ONLY the Powerball are 55:1. Hope that helps.
Regarding the comment from the reader who just played the "simulator", since they haven't been on the web site for a couple of weeks now, I would be interested to hear how you were able go out and play after reading the initial post from Wizard?
For the reader who asked about the 55:1 odds to get a Powerball number, there ARE 35 choices for the PowerBall. The odds are the likelihood that your winning numbers will match ONLY one of the Powerballs. If only one winning number were selected, then the odds would be 35:1. But, there is also the possibility that your winning numbers (5 white balls and the Powerball) will match more than just the Powerball. So, the odds that you will match ONLY the Powerball are 55:1. Hope that helps.
August 2nd, 2013 at 11:26:18 AM
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Yes, it's definitely rigged, but I agree that it's done to show how to fill out the form and what winning combinations are like.
Having said that, I just won 10m playing the same number 5 times with powerplay. Woo!
Having said that, I just won 10m playing the same number 5 times with powerplay. Woo!
August 2nd, 2013 at 2:01:12 PM
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Rollo, in addition to the link in this forum, the page shows up in a number of Powerball related searches in Google. It is still live on the website:
http://www.lottery.ok.gov/powerball_simulator.asp
http://www.lottery.ok.gov/powerball_simulator.asp
August 3rd, 2013 at 10:16:55 AM
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Quote: RolloThe "simulator", as you refer to it
The title of the OK Lottery page calls it "Pokerball: Play for Fun [Simulator]" and the URL is powerball_simulator.asp so it is the OK Lottery calling it a simulator.
The OK Lottery stated that the simulator had been removed from the website. I am waiting to clarify that before adding it to the article since the simulator is still live at the time of this post.
August 4th, 2013 at 9:37:49 PM
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I will see what that is all about. The links were removed from the web site two weeks ago and are no longer accessible thru the web site. I just clicked on your link and got a blank page. I am not an expert on these pages but is it possible yo are accessing an archived page? or, you are accessing something you are not able to thru publicly provided channels. Either way, it will be fixed. Thanks.
August 5th, 2013 at 12:24:13 AM
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They say it's just a demonstration/simulation, but in all fairness I think a notice saying that it's tilted DRASTICALLY in the player's favor would be a nice little note.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
August 5th, 2013 at 9:54:47 AM
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Confirmed--404
August 5th, 2013 at 10:27:53 AM
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Quote: chickenmanConfirmed--404
Me too.
Somebody complained to me about this in February (I'm behind on my mail), which shows it was up at least since then. I'd like to think that it was the forum that caused them to remove this obviously cheating demo.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
August 5th, 2013 at 10:37:32 AM
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Quote: FinsRuleI don't think any person would actually think it's that easy to win $10,000 or a jackpot. But I think there should just be a disclaimer on the website "website drawings not random, just a demonstration of ways to win" or something like that.
+1
I think they are trying to give you that little pleasure high from looking at a winner, even if simulated. But no question it's a sales tactic and should have a disclaimer (at least "results not typical: demonstration only" or "do not try this at home"). lol...
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
August 5th, 2013 at 10:45:42 AM
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Wiz, I think its worthy of stern notification at minimum, and a written letter to the Commission. I also do not like or accept such practice. The only wiggle-room (weasel-words) I might tolerate is a disclaimer that the game shows the possible payouts of the lottery game, and is NOT indicitive of expected results. JMNSH2c
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
August 5th, 2013 at 11:08:57 AM
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I bet it was this thread which prompted them to remove it; they probably saw an increase in traffic to their "simulator" with one of the pages of this thread listed as the referring URL in their server logs.
August 5th, 2013 at 12:34:03 PM
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Quote: beachbumbabs+1
I think they are trying to give you that little pleasure high from looking at a winner, even if simulated. But no question it's a sales tactic and should have a disclaimer (at least "results not typical: demonstration only" or "do not try this at home"). lol...
"Demonstration only: Results Not Typical" should be displayed at the minimum, imo.
September 8th, 2013 at 6:30:45 PM
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Quote: Mission146Either way, it funds education, so the Government can take the money that would otherwise be going to education anyway and spend it on far less useful things, like their own salaries.
Hey, I resemble that remark! lol
Its a dog eat dog world.
Or maybe its the other way around!
