Article on BLR Technology in the Pittsburg Tribune-Review

Studies say software cheats players at 2 online casinos,

By Mark Gruetze, PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Friday, November 18, 2011
Last updated: 2:37 pm

Nice work on getting this out there, Mike and Eliot!!!

Does anyone want to try a Legends test to see if Rachel Miller is correct or not?

Quote: boymimbo

Nice work on getting this out there, Mike and Eliot!!!

Thank you! Kudos also to Mark Gruetze for bringing some attention to this in the mainstream media.

Quote: Wizard

... also to Mark Gruetze for bringing some attention to this in the mainstream media.

"Mark Gruetze has been a recreational gambler for more than 30 years, focusing on blackjack, video poker and poker. He is administrative editor of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. Send questions to players@tribweb.com. "

By which definition is he "mainstream"? There's not even a spot at that page to leave comments. Looks like bodog isn't getting his "money's worth" out of the boys after all. (One more reason to NOT legalize such companies.)

Quote: Garnabby

By which definition is he "mainstream"? There's not even a spot at that page to leave comments. Looks like bodog isn't getting his "money's worth" out of the boys after all. (One more reason to NOT legalize such companies.)

Mark was at the WoV meetup in Pittsburgh and knows and is a fan of the site. He sometimes posts here. Trib-Review is a major daily in Pittsburgh and is by any definition mainstream.

Quote: teddys

Mark was at the WoV meetup in Pittsburgh and knows and is a fan of the site. He sometimes posts here.

One of "the boys" was exactly where i was going with that.

Quote: teddys

... by any definition mainstream.

I was thinking syndicated "mainstream".

Anyway, on which page of that local newspaper did that (sorely-incomplete) story run?

And would such a story about a local casino be covered in full on the front page of any newspaper, were such to come to light?

I believe that it is an inescapable conclusion - the game of Craps provided by BLR Technologies is capable of being "rigged". (Please note my use of the word "capable". See below.)

As a software developer, I will put forward one possible method for doing this.

Let's say that you have a code component which contains public and private classes, and these public classes expose public methods. So, one public class may be craps_game, and one public method may be roll_dice.

This roll_dice method takes arguments, which it uses to process the game. Let's say that one of these arguments is a nefarious "adjustment factor" for the game return.

As an extreme; if the parent code passes in a 100 for this adjustment factor, that translates to a clean game. If the parent code passes in a 0 (zero), then every game is a loser.

Thus, by using this "adjustment factor" it would be possible to deploy the same code as both a clean game and a "rigged" game. And the level of that "rigged-ness" would be variable.

Also of importance - If the parent code is script code (and not compiled code), then this "adjustment factor" can be easily modified, perhaps taking only a few seconds. In other words, if someone running such a system got the word that "the cops are at the door", then 15 seconds later and they're running a clean game.

(Please don't go all "Tin Foil Hat" on me with "If you know it then you do it" silliness. Anyone who writes code for a living can see their way through this one.)

It is my understanding that people involved in this investigation played in a BLR Tech "Play for Fun" version of the Craps game. In doing so, they did NOT observe the same 25% RTP behavior that has been observed and documented by others.

So, could I ask those that did testing to confirm what they tested, and whether their results were clean or rigged? In replying, could you please provide a link, if available, to where you published or documented your results?

World Wide Wagering

- "Play for Fun" confirmed clean/rigged (or not available)?

- "Play for Real" confirmed rigged. (clempops4)


5Dimes

- "Play for Fun" confirmed clean/rigged (or not available)?

- "Play for Real" confirmed clean/rigged?


It is my understanding that Legends does NOT provide a "Play for Fun" version of the BLR Tech Casino.

Legends

- "Play for Fun" not available.

- "Play for Real" - ???

Play for fun on all three and on the BLR site does not have the bias.

Play for Real at Legends was not tested.

Play for Real at 5 dimes - has videos that the Wizard posted.
Play for Real at WorldWide - has clems' original analysis (854 of 3,200 wins) in that thread. Eliot also did an analysis though it is unclear on the site. I think it was WorldWide.

5 Dimes - play for fun and real are now gone.

boymimbo,

When you say "Play for fun on all three ..." - I did not see a Play for Fun at Legends. Did you?

Mike's data was for 5Dimes. clempops' data was for WWW. Eliot's data is unsure.

Can you point to any of this via links? Especially the Play for Fun data/observations.

Thanks.

boymimbo,

Actually, I only need pointers to the Play for Fun verification as fair play. The rigged play for real is all over the place.

I'm trying hard to keep up with all of the links.

Casinomeister example

You've seen the initial response on SBR. If a definitive source of data can be maintained, the battle may yet be won.

Quote: binary128

You've seen the initial response on SBR. If a definitive source of data can be maintained, the battle may yet be won.

I thought the battle was all over ... except for a few mouth pieces in white coats who will say we need more testing to know if cigarettes are dangerous and a few executives to stand up, raise their hands and prattle Cigarettes are Not Addictive.

Ooops..... sorry for the confusion... I was getting mixed up .... or maybe its all the same nonsense.

Quote: Garnabby

"Mark Gruetze has been a recreational gambler for more than 30 years, focusing on blackjack, video poker and poker. He is administrative editor of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. Send questions to xxx. "

By which definition is he "mainstream"? There's not even a spot at that page to leave comments. Looks like bodog isn't getting his "money's worth" out of the boys after all. (One more reason to NOT legalize such companies.)

Do you ever have anything good to say?

boymimbo,

I've looked. I can only find one reference of someone playing anywhere using BLR Tech's "Play for Free" product and getting a clean game (A post from clempops4), and that is anecdotal data at best.

Without hard data, or at least more anecdotal data, there is no proof that the "rigged-ness" can be turned on and/or off. Thus, a weakness in the argument.

It is sad that the more reasonable SBR forum members (those that are not just insulting Eliot, Mike and/or you) consider it acceptable that proof specific to Legends is still required. IMO, at this point the onus should be on Legends to prove that their game is NOT rigged, rather than placing the further burden on volunteers to prove that it IS rigged.

That is, the rubber may or may not have broken, but should anyone consider sleeping with Legends? Legends should be quarantined, forced to take the "clap test", and at their own expense.

Indeed, if there was definitive proof that the "rigged-ness" can be turned on and off, then IMO the only acceptable test would be an analysis of their log files. The problem there is that, given what has gone on to date, I'm not sure that the log files that would be provided could be trusted.

I'm reminded here of an episode that arose some short time back concerning a book named Easy Street Sports. In this case, the forum moderators/administrators at theRx.com (another major Sportsbook web site) were ... well, I'll leave it to you to draw your own conclusions.

However, in this instance, SBR was the forum that rose to the defense of the player.

BTW, I would request that you be careful in quoting me on SBR. As a representative of Galewind, I think that it is acceptable for me to post on forums that are Casino oriented. That is, I feel that in doing so I am justifiably representing Galewind as a Casino software provider.

However, for me to make a post on SBR, or any other Sportsbook oriented forum, would put me in the position of representing my customer Pinnacle, and not Galewind. I can NOT make that kind of representation unless specifically requested by Pinnacle.

Chris

Well, here's the news; 5 dimes has pulled the casino so free play isn't available there.

Worldwide claims innonence: (see story here.

I've opened accounts at Legends and WorldWide. You can't play the game for free at either casino. You must play with real money.

You can play the "Free play" BLR's web site. To that end, I've played more than 100 pass lines so far at their site everything appears random with no issues.

Sorry for quoting you.

Quote: Wizard

Do you ever have anything good to say?

Have you read everything i've posted? Perhaps we just don't agree on much.

Eg, i posted about a free, hands-on baccarat-simulator. Can that be a bad thing?

I certainly "walk the talk" though, "bite the bullet" when i have to, and am hardly loath to presenting the proof... all, especially when challenged to do so.

P.S. Good to see you venturing "out of the closet".

Re: WWW maintaining the BLR Tech product. That is truly depressing, and I do not use the word lightly.

An email contained a link, which led to a blog which contained a link, which led to another blog which contained a post.

Somebody had a lot of time on their hands.

Frankly, I had no financial interest nor the time to pursue the issue. The fact is that if I wanted to prove that BLR software was cheating, I would have to play on the sports sites with real money, which I wasn't willing to do. Personally, it's an issue of self-discipline for me. If I start gambling on-line using real money, I might never stop.

I made the post containing the blog link because I was pleased that this issue, though obscured by the passage of time, has not been completely lost.

boymimbo - You personally put in a lot of time "leading the charge". Other people put in a lot of time as well. I anticipated that you, and others, might be pleased that, although those efforts weren't completely effective at achieving justice (as defined in the blog post), neither have they been completely forgotten.

I also thought that it was a pretty thorough article. It seems to have covered all the bases, and didn't hold back in calling a spade a spade.

Chris

How the heck did I manage to miss all of this when it was happening? I feel like Rip Van Winkle.........