Government-run online casinos

I thought some of you might be interested to know that some provinces in Canada have launched online casinos. These are online casinos owned and operated by the provincial governments.

They function essentially the same as a privately owned online casino, but offer additional conveniences and trustworthiness is virtually guaranteed. In Québec, for example, on espacejeux.com (owned an operated by Loto-Québec, a crown corporation), you can fund your account through online banking and the money is transferred in real time. In the US, this would be the equivalent to logging on to your Chase/Citibank/etc website and paying a bill through the site with the money arriving in your casino account instantaneously. This type of deposit method is fast, free of fees and extremely convenient. This is a big advantage over private online casinos, where your deposit method, usually by credit card or some intermediary attracts fees and interest charges.

Withdrawals are also worry free, with the money added to your bank account very quickly.

On Playnow.com (owned an operated by BCLC, an BC crown corporation), in addition to the traditional online casino offerings and online poker games, you can also buy your lottery tickets online. No more need to run to the convenience store to buy tickets for your favourite drawings. Also, eliminating the middle man means less chance of fraud occurring (which has been a problem in Canada - dishonest store clerks who steal winning tickets have been an issue in many provinces).

Ontario, the largest province in Canada (with about 1/3 of the country's population) will be launching their casino in 2012. Once they launch, the vast majority of Canadians, 90%+ will have access to a government owned an operated online casino.

An added plus is that with a government-run online casino there is immediate trust as to the ability for the online casino to pay out winners, the fairness of the games. These sites offer full disclosure as to the odds of the games offered (this, I believe, is due to legislation requiring them to make the returns public). This includes a payback percentage for each game (even the slots) and basic strategy charts for the blackjack games.

Clearly, Canada has taken a very different approach to online gambling than the USA. They've made it easier and safer to gamble. The money stays in the country as well, helping to fund education, universal health care and other social programs. Obviously, the biggest downside here is in regards to problem gambling as gambling is now more accessible. What do you guys think?

The government shouldn't be running gambling operations. They may have some value in providing oversight and licensing, for revenue generation purposes.

(I live in BC, and would consider myself as a liberal democrat, or be described as a raving Socialist Commie by others)

Quote: thecesspit

The government shouldn't be running gambling operations. They may have some value in providing oversight and licensing, for revenue generation purposes.

(I live in BC, and would consider myself as a liberal democrat, or be described as a raving Socialist Commie by others)

Any sufficiently government-licensed and government-overseen operation is indistinguishable from having the government itself run it...isn't it?

(And is Vancouver still the Cuban cigar capital of western North America?)

Quote: ThatDonGuy

Any sufficiently government-licensed and government-overseen operation is indistinguishable from having the government itself run it...isn't it?

(And is Vancouver still the Cuban cigar capital of western North America?)

Yes, this is the place for Cubans. As far as the government run on-line casino, is was a BIG cluster**** when they went live but they seem to have worked out most of the bugs. The idea of the government being in charge of something they deem to be illegal has always bothered me but it just goes to show you that when it comes to generating revenue, there's no such thing as stooping too low. The government will say that they are providing a safe place to gamble (as opposed to the offshore joints) but in reality it's just another cash grab. There are signs and rack cards all over the place with nice little slogans like "Play with your head, not over it" and "Know your limit, play within it" but if the government REALLY cared about problem gamblers it seems to me that opening a NEW gambling website is the last thing they'd do...

Quote: ThatDonGuy

Any sufficiently government-licensed and government-overseen operation is indistinguishable from having the government itself run it...isn't it?

Well then is becomes a question of how much regulation the operation has, which is a different question. Banking systems are often government licenced and overseen, but I don't think they are indistinguishable. And in this case, the lack of competition on a non=public good/service is key to be objection to the state running it.

Quote:

(And is Vancouver still the Cuban cigar capital of western North America?)

Seems so. Several businesses in Victoria rely on selling Cubans to visiting Americans.

There is definitely something contradictory with the government running problem gambling ads and at the same managing all of the casinos in the province. But is this really any different than, say, how Caesars in the US operates? Go to Atlantic City and you will see the same kind of problem gambling ads all over the casinos, paid for and sponsored by the casino!

The revenues earned by the casinos represent an increasingly important part of provincial funding - which are needed to pay for schools, hospitals, roads, transit and so many other public works projects. Why should that money go to a private corporation when it could be put to use for public works? I actually applaud the government for finding a new and innovative way to raise funds other than raising taxes.

The point about competition is a good one. Currently, the government has a monopoly on gambling in Canada. The results are mixed, in my opinion. The odds are not set quite as bad as one would expect in a monopoly. A lot of the blackjack games in Canada offer a better set of rules than in most Vegas casinos. When I lived in Windsor, ON, I used to play VP that returned 99.95%. The casinos in Québec offer single zero roulette on the floor (limits as low as $2.50). On the other hand, I suspect the slots are set much lower than in Vegas or AC. I get the feeling the slot returns approach the minimum legislated floor set at 85% in Ontario. Comps can be very stingy or non-existent. I've never gotten a free meal, or even a discount from the Casino Montréal. Alcohol is never free, and in some jurisdictions, may not even be consumed on the casino floor.

But the difference in online gambling is that the government does not have a monopoly! Online gambling is completely legal in Canada, be it at a government-run casino or some offshore site. But the government does have some distinct advantages over foreign run casinos.

I wish California would adopt this kind of attitute toward Casinos. Why not have state licensed casinos. Obviously with state licensed facilities the amount and placement of casinos can be limited as well as regulations put into place that make sure the casinos do not take advantage of players. The revenue generated from licensing fees/taxes can go to the state/counties . I see it as a win/win as people get to gamble (and do not have to do so at Indian casinos) and the state gains an additional revenue stream.

Quote: cardshark

The point about competition is a good one. Currently, the government has a monopoly on gambling in Canada. The results are mixed, in my opinion. The odds are not set quite as bad as one would expect in a monopoly.

Rightly or wrongly government has a long history of monopolizing gambling. The Spanish lottery has been a state run operation since 1812. The concept of harnessing the profits from vice for the public good is a very old idea. In Pennsylvania the state controls the sale of liquor and wine. It goes back to the strongly religious groups that founded the state.

Sin taxes tend not to work out in actual practice. Tax cigarettes and you get smuggling. Alcohol tax created such things as the Whiskey Rebellion and "scared" whiskey with additives such as battery acid. Coffee and tea taxes created discussions in coffee houses which is the wrong place to have anti tax activities fomented.

It would be nice if sin taxes and stamp taxes could provide sufficient revenue but it just doesn't seem to work out that way.

For people who rail against people not paying their fair share of taxes, you can likely get them to voluntarily get taxed by just providing gambling opportunities.

Is it true that the lotteries are taxes on poor people? Well, how else you going to get money out of them that easily?

(I'm just sayin' as I believe in progressive tax system, not flat taxes)

MHO:
Its the limits, I tell ya... If you want recreational/social gambling on the internet, price such accordingly. nickel and dime cash-rings, and 50c to $5 Tournaments. Table games 50c to $5, video games nickel/dime/quarter. Slots penny/nickel/dime.

You want action?... find a real Casino, or a high-limit online Casino. There is a big market in pennies for socially-priced on-line casinos. Toss in a quarterly tax statement, and a fee to join the (private) club...$20/year even undercuts no-cash sites like Zynga and Pogo. /MHO

In response to the OP... If the gummint were to dominate social-pricing, this would be a huge +1: competeing against "Action Houses" a big -1. The US should take note of social pricing models when considering legalization of on-line gaming.

N&B

Our BC members raise some excellent points.

The government has monopolized gaming in Canada since its beginnings, first with Government run lotteries, then with "Charity casinos", then with actual casinos. in all cases, the government takes a special cut of revenues that are different than corporate taxes. All gambling jurisdictions work that way -- they government gets a cut of casino revenues and work within the regulations of the state/province.

For online gambling, i've never felt safe depositing my money, anywhere. FullTilt is a great example of this, and there are a number of online casinos that have gone belly-up or takes a long time to get money out of them. For me, the government opening an on-line casino represents a layer of safety - you are going to get paid - and trust - the games are fair that you don't get elsewhere. And of course, it's about revenue. Canadians don't get taxed on gambling winnings, but why not compete with off-shore (well, the servers are probably on Canadian soil) operations?

Still, gambling is really effectively a regressive tax. Slot machines are proferred by the uneducated, old, and poor (generally). Those who play will likely lose, with the money lost as a tax to the government. I never really liked the fact that casinos are opening everywhere for this reason -- a large enough percentage of the ones that play generally those who really didn't have the money to play with...

I have to disagree with you on one point. I don't think a gov't run operation should be a consideration in getting "a fair game". I would point out how difficult it is to discover cheating, front-loading losses, or temporary tilting of odds. In the US, we cannot sue the Gov't, should they abuse their priviledges. And here, at least ANY US run gaming op should be strongly opposed. (After all the US Gov't couldn't even run a Brothel)

N&B

Well truly you have two choices. You can license someone else to run the casino and tax the hell out of profits, but then you have to create a whole regulatory arm to police these casinos to ensure that they're dealing a fair game, handling customer service appropriately, and so on and so forth. You have to select vendors as well, those suppliers who are trustworthy enough to run the casino. The government would have to justify to each company why a certain company could have a gaming license while other ones could not. it's a nightmare that the government is responsible for running anyway.

Canadian provinces already operate a fairly large gaming agency and to extend their employees to an online operation makes sense.

That sounds like the American way LOL

N&B