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MichaelBluejay
MichaelBluejay
Joined: Sep 17, 2010
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November 25th, 2022 at 1:07:17 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

I’m interested in the present.
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Wow, that's got to be the ULTIMATE in cherry-picking. You're seriously going to ignore Every. Single. Former president and congress, and consider only the *current* president and current Congress?

But even that's disingenuous, because be honest: Did you only *suddenly* decide that "Democrats are the party of spend" with the current president and congress, or more likely, have you believed and said that "Democrats are the party of spend" for decades now? I'm guessing the latter.

The evidence is clear: historically, Dems have have generally *not* pushed deficits higher then Republicans, and often it's been the exact opposite. If you won't even acknowledge this then you're not being honest. And until you do, there's really no point in debating.
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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November 25th, 2022 at 1:31:03 PM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

Quote: SOOPOO


I’m interested in the present. There were multi trillion dollar bills that would have passed if Democrats unfettered. Blocked by Republican (and Manchin) intervention. FACTS.

I know you don’t believe that if the Democrats NOW controlled all 3 that they wouldn’t increase spending by trillions more. It’ is essentially their platform!
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"Would have...."

"If....."

"Blocked...."

So your conclusion that the Democrats are the "party of spend" is based on hypothetical situations that never happened??
link to original post



Yes. They 100% would have passed those gigantic spending bills if they could have. Of that there is NO doubt. If you can’t understand that there is no reason for me to keep this conversation going.

Rx has an answer which at least is based on the facts. He admits that the Dems were/are going to do this big spending, but feels (the infrastructure part) is worth it.

I am not saying we do or do not need or could use the stuff in the infrastructure bill. All I am saying is I would go about spending in a different way. First, I’d figure out how much we can reasonably collect in taxes and fees and whatever. THEN I would tailor my spending to match that.
If you want to do it the other way that’s ok too. Figure out what we need to spend and tax accordingly. If you believe in what the Dems ‘need’ to spend the tax revenue would need to go up by TRILLIONS.
You should see some of the provisions in the infrastructure bill that will ‘combat racism in highways’. Please spend less!
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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November 25th, 2022 at 1:34:39 PM permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejay

Quote: SOOPOO

I’m interested in the present.
link to original post

Wow, that's got to be the ULTIMATE in cherry-picking. You're seriously going to ignore Every. Single. Former president and congress, and consider only the *current* president and current Congress?

But even that's disingenuous, because be honest: Did you only *suddenly* decide that "Democrats are the party of spend" with the current president and congress, or more likely, have you believed and said that "Democrats are the party of spend" for decades now? I'm guessing the latter.

The evidence is clear: historically, Dems have have generally *not* pushed deficits higher then Republicans, and often it's been the exact opposite. If you won't even acknowledge this then you're not being honest. And until you do, there's really no point in debating.
link to original post



Great. Since I won’t acknowledge that, feel free to not debate me because there is no point, as you say. I stand by my EASILY visible point. TODAY, the Democrats want to spend TRILLIONS more than the Republicans. FACT.

Why do I have the feeling you will still want to debate even though there ‘is no point’?
TigerWu
TigerWu
Joined: May 23, 2016
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November 25th, 2022 at 1:54:08 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO


Great. Since I won’t acknowledge that, feel free to not debate me because there is no point, as you say. I stand by my EASILY visible point. TODAY, the Democrats want to spend TRILLIONS more than the Republicans. FACT.
link to original post



They WANT to. But they haven't. Right?

So who has ACTUALLY spent more, in real dollars, in the real, non-hypothetical world? Democrats or Republicans?
billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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November 25th, 2022 at 1:59:20 PM permalink
It seems what they do isn't as important as what they might do.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
MichaelBluejay
MichaelBluejay
Joined: Sep 17, 2010
  • Threads: 57
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November 25th, 2022 at 3:33:55 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Great. Since I won’t acknowledge that, feel free to not debate me because there is no point, as you say. I stand by my EASILY visible point. TODAY, the Democrats want to spend TRILLIONS more than the Republicans. FACT.
link to original post

Fine, I won't "debate", but I'd like to know which of the following is true about your positions, since they can't both be true:

(1) You only recently decide that "Dems are the party of spend" recently, based solely on the last budget vote, as you're trying to imply. (incredibly unlikely)

(2) You've actually felt that "Dems are the party of spend" for years, despite all available evidence (and rather than admitting that, you're bizarrely focusing on only the very last budget vote).

Which is it?
TigerWu
TigerWu
Joined: May 23, 2016
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November 25th, 2022 at 3:42:36 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

It seems what they do isn't as important as what they might do.
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I only vote for Democrats, because if I vote for Republicans they might come to my house and kick me in the crotch.
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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November 25th, 2022 at 3:52:16 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

It seems what they do isn't as important as what they might do.
link to original post



Obviously. I vote for someone based on what I think they will do. Don’t you? Doesn’t everyone? ‘Might’ is always in play. No one person elected can guarantee that they will do anything. They can only vote for what they want to do if a bill is presented.
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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November 25th, 2022 at 3:55:38 PM permalink
Quote: MichaelBluejay

Quote: SOOPOO

Great. Since I won’t acknowledge that, feel free to not debate me because there is no point, as you say. I stand by my EASILY visible point. TODAY, the Democrats want to spend TRILLIONS more than the Republicans. FACT.
link to original post

Fine, I won't "debate", but I'd like to know which of the following is true about your positions, since they can't both be true:

(1) You only recently decide that "Dems are the party of spend" recently, based solely on the last budget vote, as you're trying to imply. (incredibly unlikely)

(2) You've actually felt that "Dems are the party of spend" for years, despite all available evidence (and rather than admitting that, you're bizarrely focusing on only the very last budget vote).

Which is it?
link to original post

. The Dems have been the party of spend for quite a while. You do realize that there are other factors, like tax collections, like interest rates, like pandemics, that affect the deficit? The Democrats TODAY want to spend trillions more a year than we collect. That makes them the party of spend.

It’s really easy guys.

(And welcome back from your ‘debate’ hiatus)
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
  • Threads: 118
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November 25th, 2022 at 4:04:27 PM permalink
I think what’s obvious is that MB and TW and BR will not be swayed by my logic. Nor me by theirs. I will resume in this thread when we get back to discussing betting stuff.

How about this bet…. Give me 20-1 odds and I bet the Democrat nominee gets over 510 electoral votes in 2024

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