Automatic Roulette
Quote: PushfordealerI never could understand: why on earth people choose to play Automatic Roulette without any game presenters?
most likely they have done the simuations and have come to the conclusion that humans are just useless
Live crowded table I have waited fifteen minutes for chip count, color ups, buy in's, dealer switch.
Why on Earth would that be a sought after experience?
Quote: darkozA decision every minute.
Live crowded table I have waited fifteen minutes for chip count, color ups, buy in's, dealer switch.
Why on Earth would that be a sought after experience?
Depending on the minimum, lower expected hourly loss? Of course, one need not bet every spin if one doesn’t want to, but most people do.
Quote: PushfordealerI never could understand: why on earth people choose to play Automatic Roulette
It's a very low minimum bet and lots of spins per hour. It's also rigged in favor of the house. That's why it's considered a slot machine for payoffs. It's not giving you the same result that a real roulette wheel gives you. The result you get is from an algorithm just like a slot machine. It controls where the ball lands on the wheel. It's capable of making the ball land in whatever section it wants. People make their bets and the computer immediately figures out what section to put the ball in so that the payouts are in the parameters of the algorithm. You can still make big wins but it would only be because you happened to bet in a section that wasn't targeted by the computer.
Quote: EvenBobIt's a very low minimum bet and lots of spins per hour. It's also rigged in favor of the house. That's why it's considered a slot machine for payoffs. It's not giving you the same result that a real roulette wheel gives you. The result you get is from an algorithm just like a slot machine. It controls where the ball lands on the wheel. It's capable of making the ball land in whatever section it wants. People make their bets and the computer immediately figures out what section to put the ball in so that the payouts are in the parameters of the algorithm. You can still make big wins but it would only be because you happened to bet in a section that wasn't targeted by the computer.
And now for the Science Fiction movie of the week!
Quote: darkozAnd now for the Science Fiction movie of the week!
Do you know anything about how these games work. About 10 years ago two repair people who worked on these automatic roulette setups figured out how the algorithm works and how to beat it and they took the company for hundreds of thousands before they were caught. The machines did not go out of production they just changed the betting procedure which made them much much harder to bet. Essentially what they did is they speeded up the game making it very difficult to do the calculations needed so you know where to place your bet.
When I first saw this game and was looking at it one of the pit people I knew saw me looking at it and knowing that I was a roulette player told me not to bother with it, in a roundabout way. I looked into it and he was right, it's not legit game of roulette. It is a legit slot machine.
Quote: EvenBobDo you know anything about how these games work. About 10 years ago two repair people who worked on these automatic roulette setups figured out how the algorithm works and how to beat it and they took the company for hundreds of thousands before they were caught. The machines did not go out of production they just changed the betting procedure which made them much much harder to bet. Essentially what they did is they speeded up the game making it very difficult to do the calculations needed so you know where to place your bet.
When I first saw this game and was looking at it one of the pit people I knew saw me looking at it and knowing that I was a roulette player told me not to bother with it, in a roundabout way. I looked into it and he was right, it's not legit game of roulette. It is a legit slot machine.
Provide a link to an article about the two people who took the company for hundreds of thousands or I call total BS.
As for physics, a ball flying loose through the air (contained in a bubble environment or not) can be controlled by an algorithm? That's your position?
Quote: darkozThat's your position?
A computer controls the exact speed of the wheel and can speed it up or slow it down and the release and speed of the ball is completely controlled by compressed air.. The computer can make the ball land in any section of the wheel it likes based on what the algorithm tells it to do. This is why for payouts it's treated just like a slot machine. If you win over a certain amount they will come around with a tax form for you to fill out before they pay you. This roulette set up works just like a slot machine works. The amount of money it keeps and the amount of money it pays out is a foregone conclusion.
Quote: EvenBobA computer controls the exact speed of the wheel and can speed it up or slow it down and the release and speed of the ball is completely controlled by compressed air.. The computer can make the ball land in any section of the wheel it likes based on what the algorithm tells it to do. This is why for payouts it's treated just like a slot machine. If you win over a certain amount they will come around with a tax form for you to fill out before they pay you. This roulette set up works just like a slot machine works. The amount of money it keeps and the amount of money it pays out is a foregone conclusion.
I'm asking you to prove it, not say it.
I know about the compressed air and I know about the speed of the wheel being controlled.
You need to prove that when the ball hits struts and starts flying through the air, the computer can control a bouncing, flying loose object
Don't say it. Prove it with a link to a legit article that explains how it's controlled with prearranged outcomes similar to a slot machine.
You also seem to lack the knowledge of how a slot machine works. In E-roulette there is no pushing of a button that triggers a millisecond decision from an RNG so why you think it works like a slot boggles the mind.
Quote: EvenBobDo you know anything about how these games work. About 10 years ago two repair people who worked on these automatic roulette setups figured out how the algorithm works and how to beat it and they took the company for hundreds of thousands before they were caught. The machines did not go out of production they just changed the betting procedure which made them much much harder to bet. Essentially what they did is they speeded up the game making it very difficult to do the calculations needed so you know where to place your bet.
When I first saw this game and was looking at it one of the pit people I knew saw me looking at it and knowing that I was a roulette player told me not to bother with it, in a roundabout way. I looked into it and he was right, it's not legit game of roulette. It is a legit slot machine.
I'd love to see your evidence.... Of anything.
Not holding my breath, though.
Quote: darkozI'm asking you to prove it, not say it.
I know about the compressed air and I know about the speed of the wheel being controlled.
You need to prove that when the ball hits struts and starts flying through the air, the computer can control a bouncing, flying loose object
Don't say it. Prove it with a link to a legit article that explains how it's controlled with prearranged outcomes similar to a slot machine.
You also seem to lack the knowledge of how a slot machine works. In E-roulette there is no pushing of a button that triggers a millisecond decision from an RNG so why you think it works like a slot boggles the mind.
Evenbob’s posts generally lead me to conclude that the posts saying something is supposed to be its own proof.
EB’s post says it, and therefore, it must be true…because no EB post has ever been wrong.
In the State of Nevada, given that the game represents an actual Roulette wheel, the probabilities must correspond. That’s true of the ones that look even more like a slot machine.
That said, I do think aspects of what EB is saying are theoretically possible such that I wouldn’t COMPLETELY dismiss it outright. I mostly dismiss it. It would have to be a rogue operator.
Of course, if it could be the case (or was ever demonstrated to be anywhere) you could just fade the big action (bet what they are not) for smaller amounts and essentially print money. I do not think this is the case and do not recommend trying it.
The laws of physics would have to be violated to make those games rigged.
Now for the kicker. If EB had suggested E-Craps was rigged or E-Baccarat, I have seen some evidence that it's possible!
Evidence seen with my own eyes!
Quote: darkozI have spent countless hours playing E-roulette and the while there are a few types of wheels with a larger "dead" ball which seems to just flop down into a pocket, most models have a small ivory ball that bounces, zigzags, and even careens across the wheel.
The laws of physics would have to be violated to make those games rigged.
Now for the kicker. If EB had suggested E-Craps was rigged or E-Baccarat, I have seen some evidence that it's possible!
Evidence seen with my own eyes!
Magnets that can be programmed to be turned on and off combined with a ball with a metal core.
Like I said, I think it's theoretically possible to rig one of these bad boys...I just seriously doubt it's the case anywhere. Since EB seems so sure, perhaps he should just go cruising casinos and looking for big bettors on the E-Roulette (who are in no short supply) and just directly fade the sections of the wheel that would be best for them.
If he can buck the house edge for ten or twenty thousand spins and presents his data accordingly, turning an assumed 5.26% House Edge into a profit, then I'm all ears.
Until then, the post is just more blowing of wind. Or breaking of wind. Either way, the post smells.
Quote: Mission146Magnets that can be programmed to be turned on and off combined with a ball with a metal core.
Like I said, I think it's theoretically possible to rig one of these bad boys...I just seriously doubt it's the case anywhere. Since EB seems so sure, perhaps he should just go cruising casinos and looking for big bettors on the E-Roulette (who are in no short supply) and just directly fade the sections of the wheel that would be best for them.
If he can buck the house edge for ten or twenty thousand spins and presents his data accordingly, turning an assumed 5.26% House Edge into a pocket, then I'm all ears.
Until then, the post is just more blowing of wind. Or breaking of wind. Either way, the post smells.
What really makes the post smell is the Topsy turvy logic.
He can't beat the game because it's rigged (that is precisely the type of game an AP could beat, just figure out how it's rigged, then make bets accordingly).
EB would rather play a fair live roulette game because those he can beat.
Is there such a term as a DP? A Disadvantange Player?
1. speed of the ball
2. when it will fall into the bowl
and we know this because they can provide these displays
We also know that the wheel can be
3.Sped up or slowed down "imperceptibly"
and this is a picture of the roulette wheel (or at least one version of them) that contains the air compressor
https://www.cammegh.com/our-products/roulette-wheels/slingshot-2/
Quote:For added flexibility, the Slingshot 2 is available in two variants. The standard model is mounted on top of a floor-standing frame, which houses the air compressor and is designed to fit inside an outer drum or 3rd party betting terminal carousel.
There's a pretty important difference between theoretically possible (which I believe) and actually being done (which EvenBob maintains) and that difference is that we can exploit the latter, but not the former.
We obviously would believe that no regulator would outright close a casino, even if it were caught rigging it...and the fine would likely be something to the tune of 0.01% of their revenues, probably less. At worst, they might fine the casino their gross profits on the Roulette game itself, in whole, but of course the Government would get that money and not the players who actually lost money due to the cheating...so what difference does that even make?
But, the point is, EB needs to go find himself a wheel and prove it with data if he says that the case is presently so. Again, it would be relatively easy to exploit, even if EB claims it would be more difficult. Easier than a betting system that does exactly nothing to the house edge.
https://www.cammegh.com/our-products/roulette-wheels/mercury-360-rrs/
Quote:The Mercury 360 RRS (Random Rotor Speed) randomly and imperceptibly changes the rate of deceleration of the rotor from game to game by means of an innovative contactless system.
Why are they saying "imperceptibly"? Well they know that if someone noticed that the wheel was being slowed down or sped up that they would complain and the gaming control boards would have a hell of a life.
i simply think RRS is the rigging and others have different opinions and its pretty much the main reason i dont play roulette any more
Nevermind. LOL
Quote: EvenBobThis is what it must have been like for Galileo when he tried to explain to the Catholic Church that the earth went around the sun and not the other way around. The conclusion you eventually come to is always the same one. Why bother wising people up, you can't do it and it just makes them angry anyway.
Nevermind. LOL
The only difference is Galileo proved to be correct.
Quote: darkozThe only difference is Galileo proved to be correct.
That's why it's a good comparison, because me and Galileo are right and our audience is totally incredulous. You know what they say about schadenfreude, it's a blissful state to be in. It's where I'm at right now.
Quote: EvenBobThat's why it's a good comparison, because me and Galileo are right and our audience is totally incredulous. You know what they say about schadenfreude, it's a blissful state to be in. It's where I'm at right now.
Then my advice.
Do like Galileo and publish and make public print of your theories.
And hundreds of years from now you will be remembered.
Galileo isn't remembered today because he just talked about it.
EDIT: Still waiting for you to produce evidence.
Oh wait, you have none!
Quote: darkoz
Do like Galileo and publish and make public print of your theories.
Not a theory it's a fact. There's nothing in it for me why bother. I don't think those automatic roulette things are even around here anymore I haven't seen one in a couple years. I remember the one where a pit person spoke to me. It was at that Four Winds about eight or nine years ago. I was sitting there looking at it and he saw me and came over and said, I can't believe you're playing this. And I said why wouldn't I be playing it. And he said, you'll see.
That's when I started investigating it.
Quote: darkozI'm asking you to prove it, not say it.
EvenBob says he wins at roulette by making good guesses based on the thoughts inside his head. He then does everything possible to only go to casinos that won't let him ever bet much at the game, while never once going to the many casinos that would let him win a lot more. That should tell you everything you need to know about his level of honesty when it comes to these discussions.
Quote: TomGHe then does everything possible to only go to casinos .
Actually I have not been inside a brick-and-mortar casino in a year and a half ever since they closed my local casino in early spring of 2020. Then they reopened it last fall but it has no valet service and the parking garage where they make you park it's probably a football field away from the roulette tables. I use a cane now because I have arthritis in my hips and it's just too far for me to walk. And they only allow three people to play a table at one time, screw that. I play online only now, no waiting, play whenever I want.
Quote: EvenBobActually I have not been inside a brick-and-mortar casino in a year and a half ever since they closed my local casino in early spring of 2020. Then they reopened it last fall but it has no valet service and the parking garage where they make you park it's probably a football field away from the roulette tables. I use a cane now because I have arthritis in my hips and it's just too far for me to walk. And they only allow three people to play a table at one time, screw that. I play online only now, no waiting, play whenever I want.
Yeah no way those on-line games are rigged.
SMH!
FYI without giving up your identity, method of play and secrets you could prove that you can beat online roulette and shut us all up..Quote: EvenBobActually I have not been inside a brick-and-mortar casino in a year and a half ever since they closed my local casino in early spring of 2020. Then they reopened it last fall but it has no valet service and the parking garage where they make you park it's probably a football field away from the roulette tables. I use a cane now because I have arthritis in my hips and it's just too far for me to walk. And they only allow three people to play a table at one time, screw that. I play online only now, no waiting, play whenever I want.
You also claim you can tell the difference between an RNG and A live roulette.
You can prove that as well without giving up anything..
Personally I don't think you could tell the difference between random numbers and something I made up...
Quote: AxelWolf
You also claim you can tell the difference between an RNG and A live roulette.
That is easy to do. Live roulette routinely produces results that you never see on an RNG. No examples, figure it out yourself which of course you won't do.
Notwithstanding the assertion that EvenBob could NOT tell an RNG set of results from a live wheel set, I would expect him, or me, to easily detect a set of numbers just 'Thought up' by anyone. Because the human brain is a truly rubbish RNG.Quote: AxelWolfFYI without giving up your identity, method of play and secrets you could prove that you can beat online roulette and shut us all up..
You also claim you can tell the difference between an RNG and A live roulette.
You can prove that as well without giving up anything..
Personally I don't think you could tell the difference between random numbers and something I made up...
No way in hell EvenBob will so much as try to provide evidence of his prowess. Waste of a post to even think he could or would,
Of course, I won't, because its not possible with our brains. Perhaps some AI or complex computers could do itQuote: EvenBobThat is easy to do. Live roulette routinely produces results that you never see on an RNG. No examples, figure it out yourself which of course you won't do.
You can prove different and sill not show anyone how its done or give up any information. My guess is you would never take a challenge because you know it would show that you can't do it.
As we were both responding..Quote: OnceDearProve it: Which of course you won't do.
that was my sentiment exactly.
RNG roulette VS live..Quote: EvenBobIt's a very low minimum bet and lots of spins per hour. It's also rigged in favor of the house. That's why it's considered a slot machine for payoffs. It's not giving you the same result that a real roulette wheel gives you. The result you get is from an algorithm just like a slot machine. It controls where the ball lands on the wheel. It's capable of making the ball land in whatever section it wants. People make their bets and the computer immediately figures out what section to put the ball in so that the payouts are in the parameters of the algorithm. You can still make big wins but it would only be because you happened to bet in a section that wasn't targeted by the computer.
Assuming you think/figured out RNG's are rigged and NOT random, how much of it could you have possibly played? I would hope/guess very little since you have claimed it's rigged and there is no way to beat it, in the past(untill just now when you claimed some guys did beat it)
Given your numerous post's about how you hate casinos and want to get in and out as fast as possible( you spendlittletime in the casino's), how many spins could you have possibly played?
If anything was off enough for you to notice in so few spins, then you should would be up multiple millions, others would have noticed as well and the cat would be out of the bag or roulette would be bankrupt
Wasting your breath Axel.Quote: AxelWolfRNG roulette VS live..
Assuming you think/figured out RNG's are rigged and NOT random, how much of it could you have possibly played? I would hope/guess very little since you have claimed it's rigged and no way to beat it(untill just now when you claimed some guys did beat it)
Given your numerous post's about how you hate casinos and want to get in and out as fast as possible, how many spins could you have possibly played?
If anything was off enough for you to notice in so few spins then you should would be up multiple millions and others would have noticed as well.
Stuck at the airport on a delay. Nothing else to do. Not one eatttery is open 😒 I even forgone eating before I got here and arrived early just so I could relax and eat.🥶Quote: OnceDearWasting your breath Axel.
Quote: EvenBobThat is easy to do. Live roulette routinely produces results that you never see on an RNG. No examples, figure it out yourself which of course you won't do.
This made me howl.
Like a wolf 🐺?Quote: rsactuaryThis made me howl.
Quote: AxelWolfLike a wolf 🐺?
Quote: OnceDearNotwithstanding the assertion that EvenBob could NOT tell an RNG set of results from a live wheel
Let me put it in a way you might understand, though I am doubtful. With a live wheel true randomness will manifest itself over thousands of spins, you can't really see it in the very short-term. In the short-term anything can happen like 25 reds in a row or the same number showing up 4 times in 7 spins. On an RNG wheel random manifests itself in the short term and in the long-term. You see far fewer weird things on an RNG. I'm not saying you won't see them but there are far far fewer of them. This is what drives players crazy on online casino live wheels. Something odd will happen and the players will go crazy screaming, it's fixed! It's rigged! Cheaters! Magnets! And it's not true at all, what they are seeing is very common on a real roulette wheel in the short-term.
And the RNG Wheels at online casinos are just plain fixed to favor the house just like a slot machine is fixed to favor the house. The RNG wheel gives the house a built in amount of money it will make for the amount of money bet. A live roulette wheel cannot do this in the short-term. In fact the roulette wheel will sometimes lose money for the house in a quarter because a couple players got really lucky. But it will always catch up and make money for the house in the next quarter or the quarter after that. This never happens with an online casino RNG wheel. Just like a slot machine it always makes money for the house in the short term.
Quote: rsactuaryThis made me howl.
In the mid-nineteenth century in England a hospital doctor discovered by accident that if he washed his hands with and soap and water in between delivering babies both the mothers and the babies we're healthier later on and had less sickness. He experimented and scientifically showed that washing your hands with soap and water was indeed a medical breakthrough. When he explained this to his fellow doctors he was practically laughed out of the profession. They howled, they screamed with laughter and called him a moron and many other names as well. 20 years later every doctor in every hospital around the world was washing his hands with soap and water in between operations all because of this doctor in England. So howl all you like..
Send EB to join the hidden threads? For gambling misinformation?
-edit to condense quote to first sentence-Quote: EvenBobLet me put it in a way you might understand, though I am doubtful.
-snip-
Quintessential EB, start an explanation with a thinly veiled insult...
Quote: EvenBobIn the mid-nineteenth century in England a hospital doctor discovered by accident that if he washed his hands with and soap and water in between delivering babies both the mothers and the babies we're healthier later on and had less sickness. He experimented and scientifically showed that washing your hands with soap and water was indeed a medical breakthrough. When he explained this to his fellow doctors he was practically laughed out of the profession. They howled, they screamed with laughter and called him a moron and many other names as well. 20 years later every doctor in every hospital around the world was washing his hands with soap and water in between operations all because of this doctor in England. So howl all you like..
Link?
Quote: Keeneone-edit to condense quote to first sentence-
Quintessential EB, start an explanation with a thinly veiled insult...
Link?
EB is mentioning true stories but erroneously comparing his theories as being in the same class.
So far in one day EB has compared himself to Galileo and this doctor.
https://globalhandwashing.org/about-handwashing/history-of-handwashing/
I'm sure Christopher Columbus will be next
Quote: rsactuaryThis made me howl.
EvenBob is 100% correct. I will never watch the thousands, or tens of thousands of spins on a live Roulette wheel necessary to make that determination.
The op used the term "presenters" in the first post.
Honest question, where on the globe is this term used to describe "dealers" (in the USA)?
I like "presenter". It sounds more formal and like they are putting on a show (entertainment).
"Dealer" is not as good. It sounds like they have to "deal" with something (gamblers/customers/hard job). :)
Quote: KeeneoneI know we have sidetracked the thread a bit...sorry for that.
The op used the term "presenters" in the first post.
Honest question, where on the globe is this term used to describe "dealers" (in the USA)?
I like "presenter". It sounds more formal and like they are putting on a show (entertainment).
"Dealer" is not as good. It sounds like they have to "deal" with something (gamblers/customers/hard job). :)
Properly, they are croupiers.
Quote: EvenBobIn the mid-nineteenth century in England a hospital doctor discovered by accident that if he washed his hands with and soap and water in between delivering babies both the mothers and the babies we're healthier later on and had less sickness. He experimented and scientifically showed that washing your hands with soap and water was indeed a medical breakthrough. When he explained this to his fellow doctors he was practically laughed out of the profession. They howled, they screamed with laughter and called him a moron and many other names as well. 20 years later every doctor in every hospital around the world was washing his hands with soap and water in between operations all because of this doctor in England. So howl all you like..
so here's the difference. As you state above, he experimented and scientifically proved the fact before telling colleagues. If you scientifically prove, none of us will howl.
But you haven't done that, have you? Let me answer for that for you: no you haven't.
It's one thing to claim you can beat roulette, but now you are just giving out incorrect information.Quote: EvenBobJust like a slot machine it always makes money for the house in the short term.
It only seems like a slot machine will hold its percentage in the short term because the HA is normally high and the bet spread doesn't vary as wild as a table game. It also depends on how the machine is designed and what kind of variance is baked in. How would that apply to a machine that has a huge jackpot? It might take year's for that machine to make up for a substantial jackpot hit.
If a roulette game has lost money for the house over a quarter, or whatever, its absolutely due to someone getting super lucky while making large bets compared to the average for a short period of time.
