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BralasLT
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April 5th, 2021 at 3:52:27 AM permalink
In our ongoing project From the players for the Players, we tested a casino for US players- Bovada casino. And the casino did well, just as expected.

Here is the video for more details:



And the full report is HERE
Last edited by: unnamed administrator on Apr 5, 2021
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AxelWolf
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April 5th, 2021 at 9:47:35 AM permalink
Personally, I dont think there was a need to test Bovada since it's fairly well known they have one of the best reputations when it comes to online casinos. There are also some dirtbag casinos where it seems like it would be a waste of time to test.

Over on LCB, you guys have a members rating system in place, IIRC, it's 0-5 stars? Everything in the 4-star range seems to be fairly accurate ( I realize occasional checks to make sure is needed). It would be nice to see many of the casinos in the 3.6 range be tested. I would also like to add that it would be a good idea for someone to test the 7 casinos that are highly advertised here to us, American players. Lucky Tiger, LasVegasUSA, Slotto Cash, CasinoMax, Jackpot Capital, Vegs Casino Online I know in the past we had some members here on this forum that were not happy with Las Vegas USA casino.

I'm curious who picks what casinos get tested and why those particular casinos get picked?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Zuga
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April 6th, 2021 at 2:53:02 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Personally, I dont think there was a need to test Bovada since it's fairly well known they have one of the best reputations when it comes to online casinos. There are also some dirtbag casinos where it seems like it would be a waste of time to test.

Over on LCB, you guys have a members rating system in place, IIRC, it's 0-5 stars? Everything in the 4-star range seems to be fairly accurate ( I realize occasional checks to make sure is needed). It would be nice to see many of the casinos in the 3.6 range be tested. I would also like to add that it would be a good idea for someone to test the 7 casinos that are highly advertised here to us, American players. Lucky Tiger, LasVegasUSA, Slotto Cash, CasinoMax, Jackpot Capital, Vegs Casino Online I know in the past we had some members here on this forum that were not happy with Las Vegas USA casino.

I'm curious who picks what casinos get tested and why those particular casinos get picked?



good questions AW.

The plan is to test as many casinos as possible ( ultimate goal to cover every single casino review we have atm , a daunting task I know ). And you are right we have 0-5 rating system where all registered users can give their ratings and feedback.

Right now we have 5 testers coming from different countries. The idea is to have them test those casinos that our team ( based in SRB ) is not able to to test themselves due to country/jurisdiction restrictions.

Now there are a few other things to consider when choosing which casinos to test first, and mind this is still an early stages project, but the plan is to test both good and bad casinos ( starting with those most popular amongst our membership to those with most complaints ).
And indeed all those casinos you mention are on our to do list.

So far we have conducted about 16 tests/ reports and have half a dozen ongoing. Naturally those casinos that are legit/with no issues, are the easiest to test and quickest to write reports. We also wanted to start with easy reports so our testers and our team get the hang of it and iron out any issues/problems that could arise and had happened already during the process.

With that said, for instance we just published a report on BoVegas ( which took over 2 months to pay ), a casino that is on our blacklist now : https://lcb.org/onlinecasinobonusforum/casino-banking/reviewing-deposit-cash-out-process-at-bovegas-casino

And another thing is that from the test itself to report ( text review ) to video report can pass a few weeks if not more ( which is why we have 16 reports and 4 videos only atm ). Producing these videos always takes more time and resources.

If you want to check all casinos tested so far please see: https://lcb.org/onlinecasinobonusforum/casino-banking
"All it takes for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing "
teliot
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April 6th, 2021 at 8:18:13 AM permalink
Honestly, I find the avoidance of blinking in the filming of this to be beyond creepy. That is often a directorial decision for ordinary actors in television and film, but for infomercials like this one you want to humanize the presenter so the audience can connect.

Here is a great explanation of this technique and its purpose:

https://actoncamera.com/how-to-blink-less-on-camera-8-on-camera-tips/
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Zuga
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April 6th, 2021 at 12:10:07 PM permalink
Quote: teliot

Honestly, I find the avoidance of blinking in the filming of this to be beyond creepy. That is often a directorial decision for ordinary actors in television and film, but for infomercials like this one you want to humanize the presenter so the audience can connect.

Here is a great explanation of this technique and its purpose:

https://actoncamera.com/how-to-blink-less-on-camera-8-on-camera-tips/



meh, bad troll
"All it takes for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing "
teliot
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April 6th, 2021 at 3:22:47 PM permalink
Quote: Zuga

meh, bad troll

My opinion is you are posting poorly produced affiliate spam. That is not a troll, it is simply my opinion on your content. Your company clearly does not understand either basic acting principles or basic auditing principles.

In my opinion, you should be suspended for calling me a troll or saying I was trolling. Anyone else would get the axe for that in an instant.
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Zuga
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April 7th, 2021 at 1:05:54 AM permalink
Quote: teliot

My opinion is you are posting poorly produced affiliate spam. That is not a troll, it is simply my opinion on your content. Your company clearly does not understand either basic acting principles or basic auditing principles.

In my opinion, you should be suspended for calling me a troll or saying I was trolling. Anyone else would get the axe for that in an instant.



meh, bad troll : https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/online/35731-slots-lv-casino-real-play-and-cashout-paid-within-24hours/#post798757
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gamerfreak
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teliot
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April 7th, 2021 at 5:47:46 AM permalink
Quote: Zuga

meh, bad troll : https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/online/35731-slots-lv-casino-real-play-and-cashout-paid-within-24hours/#post798757

thank you for quoting my previous post, it is clear you have learned nothing about video production in the interim.

As for your impetuous response, I don't expect anything more from you and I am quite sure it is how you will respond to this post as well.

Look, it is clear that this is not a video by the players for the players. It is a video by a huge company whose business it is to sell people on its affiliates. Pretending to be a player to test a casino you have a pre-existing business relationship with is an audit no one should take seriously. You clearly produce these videos in a one-sided way to sell the casinos you want to sell.

Take that feedback or not, you are posting poorly produced spam on this website in a fashion that would get anybody else banned.
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Zuga
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April 7th, 2021 at 5:56:24 AM permalink
Quote: teliot

thank you for quoting my previous post, it is clear you have learned nothing about video production in the interim.

As for your impetuous response, I don't expect anything more from you and I am quite sure it is how you will respond to this post as well.



We don't negotiate with
bad trolls
"All it takes for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing "
teliot
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April 7th, 2021 at 6:01:23 AM permalink
Quote: Zuga

We don't negotiate with

bad trolls

I hope some other greenie is watching this thread, because your actions violate the long-established insult clause here and you should immediately be suspended. Calling me a "troll" directly and repeatedly is an insult, there is no question about it. Are you really able to flaunt the rules here? Post video spam and throw insults? Bad day for WoV if so.

Look, Zuga, we are not in negotiation. I am stating my opinion. Your videos are exactly what I said they are, poorly produced spam with no value as an audit. Between the two of us, there is one of us who has owned and run an Internet casino auditing company. I purchased "Certified Fair Gambling" from Mike in 2006 and owned and ran it for 7 years. I know and understand all aspects of auditing online casinos for fairness.

The last word will not be yet another childish "troll" response from you. It will be those who see you for who you are by virtue of how you responded to me here. My current "troll" count is 3. You have done far more damage to yourself and your company by exposing your company's ugly underbelly through your name-calling than I could possibly do by my comments about your videos.
Last edited by: teliot on Apr 7, 2021
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OnceDear
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April 7th, 2021 at 9:10:24 AM permalink
Quote: teliot

Quote: Zuga

We don't negotiate with

bad trolls

I hope some other greenie is watching this thread, because your actions violate the long-established insult clause here and you should immediately be suspended. Calling me a "troll" directly and repeatedly is an insult, there is no question about it. Are you really able to flaunt the rules here? Post video spam and throw insults? Bad day for WoV if so.


By convention, a member calling another member a troll is deemed an insult, BUT moderators get to make that judgement and to express that opinion. Zuga, as site owner IS a moderator. As site owner, Zuga gets to decide what to post. He COULD splatter the site with spam, but IMHO that would be a bad day for WoV. I don't see his video as spam, so that point is moot.
Quote:

Look, Zuga, we are not in negotiation. I am stating my opinion. Your videos are exactly what I said they are, poorly produced spam with no value as an audit.

The last word will not be yet another childish "troll" response from you. It will be those who see you for who you are by virtue of how you responded to me here. My current "troll" count is 3. You have done far more damage to yourself and your company by exposing your company's ugly underbelly through your name-calling than I could possibly do by my comments about your videos.

Hmmmmm....

Now that puts me on the spot!

It's pretty rare for Zuga to post in this forum, and for those who are not familiar, he's at the very top of the Admin hierarchy here. As site owner, he wayyyyy outranks me, and presumably outranks Wizard, who usually defines and interprets the rules.

At first, I thought the 'spam' and 'troll' comments were an in joke, not serious accusations. But re-reading the thread, both parties seem to mean it as their opinions.
Maybe Zuga's being tongue in cheek, or maybe Zuga is seriously angry at teliot's feedback. I don't know Zuga well enough to know that.

So. Do I suspend Zuga, let him apparently break the rules here by insulting teliot, Or do I rebuke him, or .....?

The answers are....

I do not have the administrative powers with which to suspend him. So, I won't. That one is easy.

By convention, as a moderator, Zuga has the right to call any member a troll. Both I and Wizard have called members 'troll' and even suspended them as such, so technically Zuga is exempt from that rule, by precedent. That's just the way it is!

BUT.....and this is where I'm really out on a limb... Had I called Teliot a troll, Wizard would have privately rebuked me. If Wizard had called Telliot a troll, I would have privately rebuked him by PM. You see, we have a convention of moderators not undermining each other in public... ("Don't wash your dirty washing in public" as we Brits say). So, PM's are being sent between moderators.

Just my two cent's on Teliot's feedback to Zuga (Is that Zuga in the video???)

The feedback seemed pretty harshly delivered and seems to have upset Zuga. But I don't think that was intended as a personal insult to Zuga. Nor do I think Teliot was being a troll. No. I personally, definitely don't think that meets my definition of a troll!

The best and most useful feedback that any business can receive is negative feedback. Especially constructive criticism. I thought Teliot was giving constructive criticism. If Teliot watched one of my promo Youtube videos and gave criticism of my production quality, or even my own presenting ability, I'd surely be very irritated, but I'd value the feedback. I'd want Teliot on my Quality Control team. I wouldn't want him stomping away from the forum in a huff.

If I'm not green tomorrow. So long and thanks for all the fish.
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
Zuga
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April 7th, 2021 at 9:34:19 AM permalink
As one of the owners I do outrank admins/mods here, however I do not outrank forum rules. Thus I will gladly accept any suspension that Wiz and rest of the mods deem fit , all according to WOV rules, if found that I was in breach of those rules.
But I remain by my remarks, and have no intent to engage someone who was baiting for reaction on more than one occasion, other than call it a spade.

edit:

@OnceDear, No thats not me in the video. That's Andy, one of our guys from SRB team.
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ChumpChange
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April 7th, 2021 at 9:51:38 AM permalink
I only blink when the newscasters on TV blink.
OnceDear
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April 7th, 2021 at 9:56:47 AM permalink
Quote: Zuga

As one of the owners I do outrank admins/mods here, however I do not outrank forum rules. Thus I will gladly accept any suspension that Wiz and rest of the mods deem fit , all according to WOV rules, if found that I was in breach of those rules.
But I remain by my remarks, and have no intent to engage someone who was baiting for reaction on more than one occasion, other than call it a spade.

Thank you Zuga, (Phew!)
For this 'first offense' I'll impose the same penalty as to any other established member.... A reminder of the rule that we do not allow any personal insults under the rules and I request that you please do not use the pejorative term 'troll' again simply because that term is deemed a personal insult.
I suggest to Teliot that having given his 'constructive criticism' that he accepts it's been considered and rejected.
I further suggest that Teliot does not bother to give Zuga the benefit of his opinion in future. That can be Zuga's loss.
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
Zuga
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April 7th, 2021 at 10:04:27 AM permalink
I submit to the ruling.
"All it takes for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing "
SOOPOO
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April 7th, 2021 at 1:11:03 PM permalink
The troll or no troll or suspension or no suspension blather is distracting from the main point. To me, the difficulty in establishing credibility of an organization (LCB) that gets fees from the very casinos it is evaluating is murky at best. Don’t you actually use the word ‘affiliate’ when describing many casinos?

Zuga, can you cite an example of a casino that you were taking money from that you stopped doing so after finding they were shady?
AxelWolf
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April 7th, 2021 at 4:01:26 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

The troll or no troll or suspension or no suspension blather is distracting from the main point. To me, the difficulty in establishing credibility of an organization (LCB) that gets fees from the very casinos it is evaluating is murky at best. Don’t you actually use the word ‘affiliate’ when describing many casinos?

Zuga, can you cite an example of a casino that you were taking money from that you stopped doing so after finding they were shady?

Are you guys crazy? We have a situation where the owners of this website basically let us do what and say what we want, according to Mikes's rules. I can only think of one time where they pulled the owner's card, and that was with Buzzard who "repeatedly" harassed them( or whatever you want to call it). Aside from the casino ads(that you can block out of view) they rarely tout anything or even post here. Why do you guys want to rile them up?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
teliot
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April 7th, 2021 at 4:35:54 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Are you guys crazy? We have a situation where the owners of this website basically let us do what and say what we want, according to Mikes's rules. I can only think of one time where they pulled the owner's card, and that was with Buzzard who "repeatedly" harassed them( or whatever you want to call it). Aside from the casino ads(that you can block out of view) they rarely tout anything or even post here. Why do you guys want to rile them up?

For me, personally, as the owner of Certified Fair Gambling, I was an auditor of Online Internet Casinos. I've gone up against a billion dollar company who threatened to take down the Gibraltar Regulatory Authority if they sided with me. I've stood up to Costa Rican hoodlums. And I've sided with good, honest Online casinos when attacked by players who didn't understand how they could lose. I understand what an audit is, how it should be conducted and how the outcomes should be presented. They do not. So, yes, it upsets me seeing a video like this one, pretending to be an audit when it is in truth an infomercial.

But, for the good of this site and with full understanding that they know that we know it is spam, I'll let it go and not respond to the next one they post.

And yes, the guy really should blink. Not blinking is creepy.
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heatmap
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April 7th, 2021 at 9:34:48 PM permalink
@teliot - Can you divulge here or in pm any popular RNG names used by games online? I always see certifications that say they use well known RNGs, but can never find a commercial name. Are these well known rngs simply mathematical forumlas that can be researched in an academic setting? I am not a mathematically inclined person.

I have attempted to understand

https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2017/02/predicting_a_sl.html

which references Fortuna.

I guess i should have asked if you were ever looking at source code yourself first but have you?
Zuga
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April 8th, 2021 at 5:07:46 AM permalink
Quote: Zuga

I submit to the ruling.



Per Mike’s suggestion I am suspending myself for 3 days for breach of the forum rules.

My position regarding this matter remains unchanged.

cheers
Zuga
"All it takes for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing "
Wizard
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April 8th, 2021 at 9:19:38 AM permalink
Quote: Zuga

We don't negotiate with

bad trolls



Quote: Zuga

As one of the owners I do outrank admins/mods here, however I do not outrank forum rules. Thus I will gladly accept any suspension that Wiz and rest of the mods deem fit , all according to WOV rules, if found that I was in breach of those rules.
But I remain by my remarks, and have no intent to engage someone who was baiting for reaction on more than one occasion, other than call it a spade.



Since Zuga submits to my discretion on this, I'm going to give him three days. I think it is important to show Admins not only not above forum rules, but are held to a higher standard in following them.

It should be noted that admins technically can't be suspended so it is on the honor system to not post and a record is still kept in the Suspension List.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
AxelWolf
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April 8th, 2021 at 9:30:52 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Quote: Zuga

We don't negotiate with

bad trolls





Since Zuga submits to my discretion on this, I'm going to give him three days. I think it is important to show Admins not only not above forum rules, but are held to a higher standard in following them.

It should be noted that admins technically can't be suspended so it is on the honor system to not post and a record is still kept in the Suspension List.

This will not even make him blink...since It seems as if he only posts about once a week anyway. I'm sure it will be over in the blink of an eye for him.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
unJon
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April 8th, 2021 at 10:37:51 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: Wizard

Quote: Zuga

We don't negotiate with

bad trolls





Since Zuga submits to my discretion on this, I'm going to give him three days. I think it is important to show Admins not only not above forum rules, but are held to a higher standard in following them.

It should be noted that admins technically can't be suspended so it is on the honor system to not post and a record is still kept in the Suspension List.

This will not even make him blink...since It seems as if he only posts about once a week anyway. I'm sure it will be over in the blink of an eye for him.

Oh I get it. It’s very clever. How’s that working out for you?
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
AxelWolf
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April 8th, 2021 at 10:55:24 AM permalink
Quote: unJon

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: Wizard

Quote: Zuga

We don't negotiate with

bad trolls





Since Zuga submits to my discretion on this, I'm going to give him three days. I think it is important to show Admins not only not above forum rules, but are held to a higher standard in following them.

It should be noted that admins technically can't be suspended so it is on the honor system to not post and a record is still kept in the Suspension List.

This will not even make him blink...since It seems as if he only posts about once a week anyway. I'm sure it will be over in the blink of an eye for him.

Oh I get it. It’s very clever. How’s that working out for you?

How is what working out for me?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
unJon
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April 8th, 2021 at 11:13:33 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: unJon

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: Wizard

Quote: Zuga

We don't negotiate with

bad trolls





Since Zuga submits to my discretion on this, I'm going to give him three days. I think it is important to show Admins not only not above forum rules, but are held to a higher standard in following them.

It should be noted that admins technically can't be suspended so it is on the honor system to not post and a record is still kept in the Suspension List.

This will not even make him blink...since It seems as if he only posts about once a week anyway. I'm sure it will be over in the blink of an eye for him.

Oh I get it. It’s very clever. How’s that working out for you?

How is what working out for me?



It’s a quote from the movie Fight Club.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
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