PartTime AP prospects
I already have a good-paying job with a flexible schedule, so I have a sufficient bankroll and time to dedicate to such a project. But I've never really gotten into the comp/promo game, so that's a major unknown to me which I assume is a critical component to successfully AP'ing.
So I'm wondering about the feasibility of doing this part-time. What can I expect to get back in terms of promotions, comps, and freeplay? Is it sufficiently profitable to make worthwhile?
I expect much of the time will be spent grinding comps on advantage slots and video poker. I assume for this I'd want/need to have multiple player's cards at each casino in order to optimize. Do you have any idea how much I can expect each account to be worth in terms of promos, freeplay, etc?
I'd also want to scout any good holecarding opportunities. For those with more experience, how frequent are do holecarding opportunities pop up?
Appreciate any insights you can give. Also feel free to PM if you prefer to keep private. thanks.
It depends on a lot of factors at the casino you intend to play. They all have different systems and comping measures.
Figuring out how to get maximum comps for your dollar and all the pitfalls concurrently with that is the real legwork. To my knowledge there are no sites you can look these up. You pretty much are on your own.
Fifty percent of APing comps these days is usually figuring out just how to get them.
The other fifty percent is figuring out how to keep them.
Neither of those is easy if you are new to the game.
The latter is never easy if the target is at war with you (APing of comps)
Quote: darkozExpectation of APing comps can be very lucrative.
It depends on a lot of factors at the casino you intend to play. They all have different systems and comping measures.
Figuring out how to get maximum comps for your dollar and all the pitfalls concurrently with that is the real legwork. To my knowledge there are no sites you can look these up. You pretty much are on your own.
Fifty percent of APing comps these days is usually figuring out just how to get them.
The other fifty percent is figuring out how to keep them.
Neither of those is easy if you are new to the game.
The latter is never easy if the target is at war with you (APing of comps)
Thanks for the pointers. I imagine there are a lot of variables that I'll have to do the legwork on myself. The big question I have is whether it's really necessary to have a big network of players, or at least identities of players, or whether this is a task that can be taken on alone.
It seems obvious that having a network can only help to scale things, assuming they don't have a major piece of the action. What I'm asking is whether such a network is really necessary to make this thing work. Thanks again
stooge you mention slots...slots are among the worst odds in the house don't see how the word slots and advantage play could coexist. Then again I never touch the stuff, strictly for squares, so if darkov is pulling that handle while shoving his player card into the machine, perhaps he may comment.
Quote: MDawgDarkov: you have made posts complaining about how you get no comps and instead just get the boot and arrested at casinos, so when you now post "Expectation of APing comps can be very lucrative." what is that based on? Are you now saying that you walk in the front door and show a player card? Or do you lie low and advantage play blackjack? Which is it?
stooge you mention slots...slots are among the worst odds in the house don't see how the word slots and advantage play could coexist. Then again I never touch the stuff, strictly for squares, so if darkov is pulling that handle while shoving his player card into the machine, perhaps he may comment.
I will keep it simple.
After I got papered by a casino in 3 states I found all my players cards in my name voided and no mailed.
A great example is one casino I was hitting at the time with 28 players cards including my own.
They no mailed my card in my name.
Whoopdeedoo. I now had only 27 cards collecting offers instead of 28.
1/28 of my income was lost that month from that location.
Considering my entire MO was papered as someone who uses OTHER people's players cards you do see the utter futility of the casinos countermeasures
As for getting the boot at other casinos thereby putting me out of business lets just put it this way.
There 600 million people in the US. Trust me I was able to find other people I trust who go in and do the work for me. That doesn't stop me either.
As to getting arrested that happened once and the charges were not only dismissed but expunged from the record booyah!
But...so (another sentence starting with the word so) all this time that I assumed you were some MIT team of advantage play card counting BJ players, all you guys are doing is playing games like slots (and losing no doubt, for who wins at slots) in exchange for comps? How is that profitable? And even if it were profitable, how does one earn a living (as in cash, those Benjies you keep talking about in your pocket) off free dinners and hotel rooms?
Talk to me my brother.
Quote: darkozI will keep it simple.
After I got papered by a casino in 3 states I found all my players cards in my name voided and no mailed.
A great example is one casino I was hitting at the time with 28 players cards including my own.
They no mailed my card in my name.
Whoopdeedoo. I now had only 27 cards collecting offers instead of 28.
1/28 of my income was lost that month from that location.
Considering my entire MO was papered as someone who uses OTHER people's players cards you do see the utter futility of the casinos countermeasures
As for getting the boot at other casinos thereby putting me out of business lets just put it this way.
There 600 million people in the US. Trust me I was able to find other people I trust who go in and do the work for me. That doesn't stop me either.
As to getting arrested that happened once and the charges were not only dismissed but expunged from the record booyah!
Not your point I know but there are 327 million people in the US not 600.
Quote: PokerGrinderNot your point I know but there are 327 million people in the US not 600.
Lol ok. I didnt check
Yeah, u got the point
Quote: MDawgSo when you posted lamenting "where are my comps?" (I'd find the exact post but this forum's search system is primitive at best) and complaining that you get no comps only the boot...you were referring only to you and your own specifically comps, versus your "team's" comps? Okay. Leave that alone for now, as contradictory as it seems on its face.
But...so (another sentence starting with the word so) all this time that I assumed you were some MIT team of advantage play card counting BJ players, all you guys are doing is playing games like slots (and losing no doubt, for who wins at slots) in exchange for comps? How is that profitable? And even if it were profitable, how does one earn a living (as in cash, those Benjies you keep talking about in your pocket) off free dinners and hotel rooms?
Talk to me my brother.
I could tell you how to do it.
I get yelled at here for explaining AP processes.
At any rate I worked very hard to make my team and my process so not giving that info away
A conundrum I know. You either believe it works or not. In the end you can accuse me of being BS but it doesnt change my ability to AP
Quote: darkozI could tell you how to do it.
I get yelled at here for explaining AP processes.
At any rate I worked very hard to make my team and my process so not giving that info away
A conundrum I know. You either believe it works or not. In the end you can accuse me of being BS but it doesnt change my ability to AP
something something magic tricks... magicians secrets... something something
Quote: heatmapsomething something magic tricks... magicians secrets... something something
I know I know.
I really want to tell...
To better answer your question it's important to know what your approximate location is, and how much time you can dedicate to traveling.Quote: stoogeI'd appreciate anyone's insight about the prospects of being a part-time AP.
I already have a good-paying job with a flexible schedule, so I have a sufficient bankroll and time to dedicate to such a project. But I've never really gotten into the comp/promo game, so that's a major unknown to me which I assume is a critical component to successfully AP'ing.
So I'm wondering about the feasibility of doing this part-time. What can I expect to get back in terms of promotions, comps, and freeplay? Is it sufficiently profitable to make worthwhile?
I expect much of the time will be spent grinding comps on advantage slots and video poker. I assume for this I'd want/need to have multiple player's cards at each casino in order to optimize. Do you have any idea how much I can expect each account to be worth in terms of promos, freeplay, etc?
I'd also want to scout any good holecarding opportunities. For those with more experience, how frequent are do holecarding opportunities pop up?
Appreciate any insights you can give. Also feel free to PM if you prefer to keep private. thanks.
If a promo comes up can you drop everything to pursue that promo?
Why kind of network and information resources so you have?
When you say "comp" I assume you are talking about earning Free Play and not room and food comps? Perhaps both, but if you want to make money, then food and room comps should be last on your list of things you care about.
Where will you get the information as to where the best places to play are and exactly whats needed to earn free play? Are you just going to randomly play random games and amount's hoping you gather enough information to move forward? Let's say you do get the information you need, now what? You mentioned the use of multiple players cards. Where and how are you going to get the cards? Can you trust the people helping you to get cards, are they going to follow up on something when you need then to? ( BTW even though the casinos know about this aspect, I think its a really dumb idiotic idea for AP's to keep talking about that and other things in public, especially while bragging how many cards they have had stolen. Why keep tossing this stuff in the casinos faces? Why give casino consultants and darksiders more ammo to use then approaching casinos for a job? "Hey look here and what theses guys are doing and how much its costing you". Rant over for now.)
When chasing promos do you have the ability to figure out what games and how best to play the promotions? Can you look at a promotion and tell within seconds of it has any potential value are not? Can you scout places and take in AP information quickly and assess it?
If you plan on doing some networking or partnering up with others what do you bring to the table?
Do you know people you can trust with money, people who are smart enough not to F*** something up and kill all your value( Or will they come into your house and steal your money and cards?)
Whatever the case, don't be a one trick pony. It limits your earning potential and things can change overnight and then you will be left ridding the short bus.
And be careful who and what you get yourself involved with. Don't let dreams of quick scores and easy money override your gut instincts and logic of any situation. Check, double check and then recheck references and facts.
Quote: AxelWolfTo better answer your question it's important to know what your approximate location is, and how much time you can dedicate to traveling.
If a promo comes up can you drop everything to pursue that promo?
Why kind of network and information resources so you have?
When you say "comp" I assume you are talking about earning Free Play and not room and food comps? Perhaps both, but if you want to make money, then food and room comps should be last on your list of things you care about.
Where will you get the information as to where the best places to play are and exactly whats needed to earn free play? Are you just going to randomly play random games and amount's hoping you gather enough information to move forward? Let's say you do get the information you need, now what? You mentioned the use of multiple players cards. Where and how are you going to get the cards? Can you trust the people helping you to get cards, are they going to follow up on something when you need then to? ( BTW even though the casinos know about this aspect, I think its a really dumb idiotic idea for AP's to keep talking about that and other things in public, especially while bragging how many cards they have had stolen. Why keep tossing this stuff in the casinos faces? Why give casino consultants and darksiders more ammo to use then approaching casinos for a job? "Hey look here and what theses guys are doing and how much its costing you". Rant over for now.)
When chasing promos do you have the ability to figure out what games and how best to play the promotions? Can you look at a promotion and tell within seconds of it has any potential value are not? Can you scout places and take in AP information quickly and assess it?
If you plan on doing some networking or partnering up with others what do you bring to the table?
Do you know people you can trust with money, people who are smart enough not to F*** something up and kill all your value( Or will they come into your house and steal your money and cards?)
Whatever the case, don't be a one trick pony. It limits your earning potential and things can change overnight and then you will be left ridding the short bus.
And be careful who and what you get yourself involved with. Don't let dreams of quick scores and easy money override your gut instincts and logic of any situation. Check, double check and then recheck references and facts.
Are you addressing the op?
Or someone near and dear to you that makes you so jealous and feared you are preparing a new career since the casinos are hip to it all thanks to yours truly?
1). If you have to give the same information to each casino in the two main groups, won't they get wise and start talking to each other?
2). If you really want to get thier best comps, do you want to take multiple hits on your credit score by asking for a line of credit in each casino?
3) Where will you get a craps/roulette partner to offset everything you do to avoid max loss and how will you divide the comps with them? Will they be smart enough not to screw things up by their betting or flapping their gums?
4) What will you do when the casinos wise up (I if they ever do) and cut the offers off?
I'm jealous of all the free time you have on the bus and all the entertainment that comes along with it. Where does one get good lice shampoo and poopourri? I could get lost in the hours of fun watching YouTube bus videos from a safe distance. That last one the Maxter posted up had me on the edge of my seat and left me wanting more. It's even better than the people of Walmart videos.Quote: darkozAre you addressing the op?
Or someone near and dear to you that makes you so jealous and feared you are preparing a new career since the casinos are hip to it all thanks to yours truly?
For me, one of the worst things for machine play was Skip's page(now vpfree2) a bunch of idiots were over their killing the golden goose. That site inspired some darksiders to start a career.
I dont think your tiny micro fan to the flames is enough to be feared ,however, I think lots of micro fans do damage, some people have way bigger fans than others, that can get a little scary. Other than the unlikely potential of personal gain and wanting acceptance, can you tell me what good it is to talk about some of this stuff publicly?
p.s. I highly doubt I will ever stop AP'ing, however, I am always interested in doing other stuff on the side or even as a main focus. I can be dedicated and passionate about anything I do. I'm all open ears, PM's are welcome, i'll just ignore dumb retarded stuff.
Quote: AxelWolfTo better answer your question it's important to know what your approximate location is, and how much time you can dedicate to traveling.
To address some of these questions here. As mentioned in the OP, I do have a job, so I don't plan to be flying all over the country on a moment's notice. I do have the time to operate on a relatively part-time basis, and if that's a major hindrance I need to know.
Another limitation (I presume) is that I am working with a relatively limited network at this point in time, but that's something that I'll continually work on and which hopefully would build over time.
I'm fully aware that there's no free lunch and that this isn't a path to unlimited and easy financial rewards. Whatever rewards there are will come with work, and I'm interested to do that work. What I'm primarily asking for is: what are the key things I should know as I go down this path? Any pitfalls to avoid? Easy things I can avoid spending time on or easy things to look for to get me started? Really appreciate the insights.
And now you just wasted 4+ hours + the HA, and now you may have just killed your other offers or burned a new players promotion or future offer. Perhaps it would be better to find a cheaper place that doesn't cost $300 a night. In most places you can get something for $100. So that 4 hours and whatever else you give up isn't worth it. I tend not to stay at a place I'm playing at most of the time. I guess it all depends on the situation, your goals and what you are doing. Some people find all the big food comps and fancy rooms to be fun a valuable. Been there done that, nowadays I'm not going out of my way for any of that stuff.Quote: ChumpChangeIf the hotel room is $300 a night, I'd have to play 4 hours of Blackjack at $300 a hand to qualify. Play at a crowded table to reduce the house advantage.
Quote: ChumpChangeIf I'm trying to turn $6,000 into $60,000 by winning 35 hands ahead, I've gotta figure I'll get a free week at the hotel, lol.
Well if you lose that $6000 trying you are correct
Quote: AxelWolfI'm jealous of all the free time you have on the bus and all the entertainment that comes along with it. Where does one get good lice shampoo and poopourri? I could get lost in the hours of fun watching YouTube bus videos from a safe distance. That last one the Maxter posted up had me on the edge of my seat and left me wanting more. It's even better than the people of Walmart videos.
For me, one of the worst things for machine play was Skip's page(now vpfree2) a bunch of idiots were over their killing the golden goose. That site inspired some darksiders to start a career.
I dont think your tiny micro fan to the flames is enough to be feared ,however, I think lots of micro fans do damage, some people have way bigger fans than others, that can get a little scary. Other than the unlikely potential of personal gain and wanting acceptance, can you tell me what good it is to talk about some of this stuff publicly?
p.s. I highly doubt I will ever stop AP'ing, however, I am always interested in doing other stuff on the side or even as a main focus. I can be dedicated and passionate about anything I do. I'm all open ears, PM's are welcome, i'll just ignore dumb retarded stuff.
My freetime on the bus is no less valuable than the free time at home. Quite valuable. Dont know why you relish giving it up behind the wheel of an automobile.
I can show you a dozen videos of road rage and car accidents and um lets see cops pulling you over for search and siezure of your hard earned AP money. But you probably will still drive your car
I could show YouTube videos of people choking in restaurants but I am still eating out
Showing youtube videos is pointless
Quote: stoogeI expect much of the time will be spent grinding comps on advantage slots and video poker. I assume for this I'd want/need to have multiple player's cards at each casino in order to optimize. Do you have any idea how much I can expect each account to be worth in terms of promos, freeplay, etc?
About $5 per hour to start. Can get closer to $10 pretty quickly with practice and being more comfortable at it. Not very good compared to most jobs. A lot better than most hobbies like golf, staring into an iPhone, or casino games with a negative advantage. That's on the most basic -0.5% video poker + points / comps to make it positive Or +0.7%, usually without much for points. That's the easiest way at machines. Virtually all of the information to start is easily available and easy to calculate. Most advantage slot information isn't easily available.
No idea about catching dealers hole cards. Just a basic hi-lo in blackjack is enough to be able to play with an advantage. With enough practice can get to +$50 per hour. Then it's just a matter how many hours.
Beyond that, it mostly comes down to connections and how much work you're willing to do. I would encourage trying it and deciding for yourself if profits are sufficient.
So thats what you should be concentrating on for now.
You can worry about recruiting multiple players later
That's not true.Quote: ChumpChangeI keep hearing players saying casinos only comp the losers but I don't know the reality.
In the meantime there are many other things that don't require that. Believe it or not, people have been AP'ing for many years without using that method, and they still are and making a nice living.Quote: darkozBefore you start doing other people cards you have to determine if the comps will even allow you to turn a profit
So thats what you should be concentrating on for now.
You can worry about recruiting multiple players later
Quote: LovecompsWell, it's been a long time since I got a new player's card so I'm wondering
2). If you really want to get thier best comps, do you want to take multiple hits on your credit score by asking for a line of credit in each casino?
To the best of my knowledge, Casino lines of credit do not affect your credit score. When we make decisions on credit we look at a few factors:
1) Level of play
2) Average bank balance of whatever account you give us
3) Whether or not you have ever defaulted on markers from another casino
4) Total available lines of casino credit.
There is a service that everyone subscribes to that has this information. I don't believe credit score is any part of the equation.
When you open a casino line of credit, we basically have you sign a check for whatever amount you want to use (within your limit) and then you can either pay it back within the agreed upon time limit (typically 30 days) or we just deposit the check.
Quote: ChumpChangeI keep hearing players saying casinos only comp the losers but I don't know the reality. If I lost $6,000 in an hour, I don't think that qualifies for anything but a $75 meal.
There is an unknown part of the comping formula that we call "Quick Loss". Your $6000 may have more value than you realize.
Quote: darkozBefore you start doing other people cards you have to determine if the comps will even allow you to turn a profit
So thats what you should be concentrating on for now.
You can worry about recruiting multiple players later
It makes me uncomfortable reading about your "other people's cards" exploits. Honestly, Dark Oz, I don't see why you can't keep it to yourself. And you wanna school newbies on the Dark Oz Method? lol Why don't you just try to be a guest on GWAE Podcast and talk to the whole friggin world about it for an hour?
Quote: bobbartopIt makes me uncomfortable reading about your "other people's cards" exploits. Honestly, Dark Oz, I don't see why you can't keep it to yourself. And you wanna school newbies on the Dark Oz Method? lol Why don't you just try to be a guest on GWAE Podcast and talk to the whole friggin world about it for an hour?
What are you worried about?
Or are you doing it too?
In which case your protests probably speak more volumes to casinos on here than what I write about
Quote: darkozWhat are you worried about?
Or are you doing it too?
In which case your protests probably speak more volumes to casinos on here than what I write about
That would probably be true, if that were the case, but I do not use anyone's but my own card. That doesn't mean I don't understand the scam, and it doesn't mean I don't know people who do it. I don't know why it makes me uncomfortable, it's just a crummy topic to discuss. That doesn't mean all my posts are gems, far from it. lol
I feel you're headed down the wrong path, Dark. It's not too late to straighten out before you get yourself in a heap o' trouble. I don't want to see you get in trouble. I'm sure nobody here wants that.
Fwiw, I don't approve of the "method". It's weak, unimaginative, and it's cheating. I do not see casinos in an adversarial role.
Quote: bobbartopThat would probably be true, if that were the case, but I do not use anyone's but my own card. That doesn't mean I don't understand the scam, and it doesn't mean I don't know people who do it. I don't know why it makes me uncomfortable, it's just a crummy topic to discuss. That doesn't mean all my posts are gems, far from it. lol
I feel you're headed down the wrong path, Dark. It's not too late to straighten out before you get yourself in a heap o' trouble. I don't want to see you get in trouble. I'm sure nobody here wants that.
Fwiw, I don't approve of the "method". It's weak, unimaginative, and it's cheating. I do not see casinos in an adversarial role.
I’d describe more as low level, rudimentary type, beginner APing.
Then someone probably got him to do some AP work for food. He figured out their play and took off on his own. Now he has a few bucks buying pinball machines and what not and wants to tell the world. I guess he misses couch surfing and riding the subway. Hopefully his book on his play (note the singularity) works out. Personally, a book titled Bus Stop Stories would probably sell better. Or how to live in the NY Subway on $5 a Day
Quote: bobbartopThat would probably be true, if that were the case, but I do not use anyone's but my own card. That doesn't mean I don't understand the scam, and it doesn't mean I don't know people who do it. I don't know why it makes me uncomfortable, it's just a crummy topic to discuss. That doesn't mean all my posts are gems, far from it. lol
I feel you're headed down the wrong path, Dark. It's not too late to straighten out before you get yourself in a heap o' trouble. I don't want to see you get in trouble. I'm sure nobody here wants that.
Fwiw, I don't approve of the "method". It's weak, unimaginative, and it's cheating. I do not see casinos in an adversarial role.
If you truly understood what I do you would know its not illegal and I cannot get into any legal trouble.
There may be a different scam you are aware of thats illegal. Trust me, I do not do that.
I find interesting people on here are so scared of its discussion while claiming its low level. Sounds a bit deceptive, yes
Quote: MaxPenDarkOz is a one trick pony in the world of AP and thinks he's something special. Just like when he was cutting film. He thought he could make a film...lol... Doesn't seem that worked out to well. Along came digital and poof the man with a razor knife was left to couch surf and ride the subway.
Then someone probably got him to do some AP work for food. He figured out there play and took off on his own. Now he has a few bucks buying pinball machines and what not and wants to tell the world. I guess he misses couch surfing and riding the subway. Hopefully his book on his play (note the singularity) works out. Personally, a book titled Bus Stop Stories would probably sell better. Or how to live in the NY Subway on $5 a Day
As the famous lines goes,
Villainous gunfighter: "You only got one bullet."
Hero gunfighter: "I only need one bullet"
Quote: darkozIf you truly understood what I do you would know its not illegal and I cannot get into any legal trouble.
Fair enough, I have no reason not to believe you. But, we both know it is clearly against casino rules. Clearly. And there's a little thing called karma.
Why don't you learn to play poker, use your brains, clearly you do have some.
Quote: bobbartopFair enough, I have no reason not to believe you. But, we both know it is clearly against casino rules. Clearly. And there's a little thing called karma.
Why don't you learn to play poker, use your brains, clearly you do have some.
I appreciate the compliment. Thx.
I enjoy what I do. I actually dont enjoy poker. Just a personal preference.
It is against casino rules to count cards at Blackjack. Just curious if your advice to Blackjack card counters is the same?
Quote: darkoz
It is against casino rules to count cards at Blackjack.
The hell y'say. Really?
I can cut and paste my claim from any of numerous casino websites. Can you cut and paste just ONE rule forbidding "counting cards"? Just one? If you can, I will make a post stating that Bob Bartop is a big dope. A big fat dope.
Quote: bobbartopThe hell y'say. Really?
I can cut and paste my claim from any of numerous casino websites. Can you cut and paste just ONE rule forbidding "counting cards"? Just one? If you can, I will make a post stating that Bob Bartop is a big dope. A big fat dope.
I understand your argument
Here is why it is faulty.
The rules you are undoubtedly citing are specific to club rules. As most club rules state offers are not transferable yadda yadda.
Those are not rules for the game of blackjack.
If it was not against the rules to count cards then casinos would not flatbet, backoff, and trespass card counters (and beat them up way back when)
You certainly dont deny there are hundreds of stories on the internet of card counters kicked out of casinos for counting.
Certainly you are not arguing that casinos are evicting people who OBEYED their rules?
Are they written and codified? No. They are unwritten rules but it makes no difference really.
I do nothing illegal. The casinos dont want me using other players cards. Substitute card counting and you have pretty much the same thing
EDIT: From a lawyers perspective as I have seen argued, any rules in a clubs brochure are for the person signing up for the card. They are the ones breaking club rules by agreeing to the rules as part of membership.
The person using their card has made no such agreement with the casino and therefore is not breaking any agreement as written.
I know I personally hate using that argument but that is a legal stance used by attorneys including Nersessian. Just throwing that out there
Quote: DeMangoI guess somebody dropped the “N Bomb”. That should end the argument.
What's that? Nersessian? You're right, that should end the argument. Besides, I was getting sleepy.
The "N Bomb", heh, that's funny.
Quote: darkozEDIT: From a lawyers perspective as I have seen argued, any rules in a clubs brochure are for the person signing up for the card. They are the ones breaking club rules by agreeing to the rules as part of membership.
The person using their card has made no such agreement with the casino and therefore is not breaking any agreement as written.
Ok. That's interesting, Dark.
Quote: SOOPOOI follow this conversation and others. Summary time. DarkOz has made a good living by using a bunch of peoples players cards with their permission. Others don't want DarkOz to post this because they are afraid the 'dark side' will now become aware of this play and stop it. This is ridiculous! Anyone on here that does not think casinos are ALREADY aware that there are people like DarkOz is like an ostrich with its head in the ground. This is NOT a new play! It is NOT a complicated play! Casinos ALREADY try to stop this, just obviously not effectively. They must consider the cost of the APs like DarkOz versus the gain of someone like me (ploppy) having a card. They must decide that the benefit outweighs the AP loss.
Of course the casinos are well aware of this. Who said they weren't? Not me.
It's not just a few DarkOzes doing this, there are huge and organized gangs doing this. I think it hurts all of us. It certainly doesn't cause casinos to be more generous. And fwiw, I don't think it's an AP. It's closer to cheating. I don't see the casinos as "the enemy". In a perfect world there should be a hint of integrity, on both sides.
Quote: bobbartopOf course the casinos are well aware of this. Who said they weren't? Not me.
It's not just a few DarkOzes doing this, there are huge and organized gangs doing this. I think it hurts all of us. It certainly doesn't cause casinos to be more generous. And fwiw, I don't think it's an AP. It's closer to cheating. I don't see the casinos as "the enemy". In a perfect world there should be a hint of integrity, on both sides.
I personally have set the boundaries of whether an AP move is cheating or not based on the letter of the law.
The law says what I do is legal. The law says it is not cheating.
I feel thats a pretty good and reasonable line most people will agree on.
Its not even a wavy line in this instance (for example some states consider smoking weed legal others dont)
What I do is considered legal in EVERY state I am aware of (no I haven't looked up every state but the ones I have are pretty consistent and I am yet to find one where it is illegal)
Bob you are entitled to your opinion. We all are.
I could say that charging $7 for a bottle of water in the casino gift shop is "highway robbery" and tantamount to theft.
That would be (hell it is) my opinion---but under the law thats about all it would be
Ok end of rant until next post :)
Quote: darkozI personally have set the boundaries of whether an AP move is cheating or not based on the letter of the law.
The law says what I do is legal. The law says it is not cheating.
I feel thats a pretty good and reasonable line most people will agree on.
Its not even a wavy line in this instance (for example some states consider smoking weed legal others dont)
What I do is considered legal in EVERY state I am aware of (no I haven't looked up every state but the ones I have are pretty consistent and I am yet to find one where it is illegal)
Bob you are entitled to your opinion. We all are.
I could say that charging $7 for a bottle of water in the casino gift shop is "highway robbery" and tantamount to theft.
That would be (hell it is) my opinion---but under the law thats about all it would be
Ok end of rant until next post :)
You're up early. Oh wait, you're on the other side of the country.
But in case you're still sleepy, nobody that I know of in this has ever said it is illegal. So you can put that defence to bed now. I did say it is closer to cheating than being an AP. I guess I can put that to bed now also. So we can both stop repeating ourselves.
Today is Sunday. Do you do this "AP/cheating" move on Sundays too? The Supreme Floorman is watching you.
Quote: bobbartopYou're up early. Oh wait, you're on the other side of the country.
But in case you're still sleepy, nobody that I know of in this has ever said it is illegal. So you can put that defence to bed now. I did say it is closer to cheating than being an AP. I guess I can put that to bed now also. So we can both stop repeating ourselves.
Today is Sunday. Do you do this "AP/cheating" move on Sundays too? The Supreme Floorman is watching you.
Sundays holidays any day sure. I was home all day Saturday this week(yesterday)
I try not to do it every day because I want to enjoy myself with a day off.
I just sent u a pm btw.
Maybe my OP suggested that I was going to employ only a single strategy. Let's call it the "darkoz strategy". But that is just the first thing that came to my mind because it seems to be the most reliable, once the ball is rolling. I take it that other opportunities, such as holecarding, etc. are more lucrative when they exist, but such opportunities don't arise as often or as regularly. Maybe I'm wrong about this too.
