AcesAndEights
AcesAndEights
Joined: Jan 5, 2012
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February 7th, 2015 at 5:45:44 PM permalink
During this show, they took a reader question about penetration on a 6 deck shoe. At the end of the discussion, they related a story of an AP who was playing a 6 deck game where the casino was so terrified of him (as a counter) that they would deal one round and then shuffle. But apparently this was exactly what he wanted them to do, and he won some large amount of money from them. Richard and both of the guests (Max Rubin and Rick Blaine) were familiar with the story.

Now let's leave aside for the moment the sheer ridiculousness of the casino's behavior in this case. If you're that scared of a guy, why not kick him out? Or if you're in AC, just flat bet him to the table minimum. But anyway, I've been trying to guess what the guy's edge was. I haven't been able to find record of this on the internet, but apparently Bill Zender wrote an article about it.

The two obvious answers are shuffle tracking/ace steering and hole carding. But since they said the shuffle after every round actually helped him, I'm going to go with shuffle tracking. I just don't understand why they wouldn't say that on the air...the play was years and years ago, and it's not like the existence of shuffle tracking is a huge secret. So, I'm still wondering if it was some other obscure edge.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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February 8th, 2015 at 12:41:33 AM permalink
Quote: AcesAndEights

During this show, they took a reader question about penetration on a 6 deck shoe. At the end of the discussion, they related a story of an AP who was playing a 6 deck game where the casino was so terrified of him (as a counter) that they would deal one round and then shuffle. But apparently this was exactly what he wanted them to do, and he won some large amount of money from them. Richard and both of the guests (Max Rubin and Rick Blaine) were familiar with the story.

Now let's leave aside for the moment the sheer ridiculousness of the casino's behavior in this case. If you're that scared of a guy, why not kick him out? Or if you're in AC, just flat bet him to the table minimum. But anyway, I've been trying to guess what the guy's edge was. I haven't been able to find record of this on the internet, but apparently Bill Zender wrote an article about it.

The two obvious answers are shuffle tracking/ace steering and hole carding. But since they said the shuffle after every round actually helped him, I'm going to go with shuffle tracking. I just don't understand why they wouldn't say that on the air...the play was years and years ago, and it's not like the existence of shuffle tracking is a huge secret. So, I'm still wondering if it was some other obscure edge.

Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it. So it's best not to talk about everything even if it was years ago or known.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
chaunceyb3
chaunceyb3
Joined: Feb 22, 2013
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February 8th, 2015 at 5:43:51 AM permalink
Quote: AcesAndEights

During this show, they took a reader question about penetration on a 6 deck shoe. At the end of the discussion, they related a story of an AP who was playing a 6 deck game where the casino was so terrified of him (as a counter) that they would deal one round and then shuffle. But apparently this was exactly what he wanted them to do, and he won some large amount of money from them. Richard and both of the guests (Max Rubin and Rick Blaine) were familiar with the story.

Now let's leave aside for the moment the sheer ridiculousness of the casino's behavior in this case. If you're that scared of a guy, why not kick him out? Or if you're in AC, just flat bet him to the table minimum. But anyway, I've been trying to guess what the guy's edge was. I haven't been able to find record of this on the internet, but apparently Bill Zender wrote an article about it.

The two obvious answers are shuffle tracking/ace steering and hole carding. But since they said the shuffle after every round actually helped him, I'm going to go with shuffle tracking. I just don't understand why they wouldn't say that on the air...the play was years and years ago, and it's not like the existence of shuffle tracking is a huge secret. So, I'm still wondering if it was some other obscure edge.



It was indeed a 10/Ace steering play. The casino had worn out/poorly maintained hole cameras, causing the dealer to jam the cards into the reader multiple times and fray/warp the corners of 10/Ace cards.

The play had an edge of 22% after the shuffle, and he got a fresh shuffle after each hand. He took them for a little under $1 Million in 3 months (Richard M. mentioned $600K).

Bill Zender's article is here.
RS
RS
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
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February 8th, 2015 at 6:05:37 AM permalink
I can think of a different reason why shuffling every round would/could help (which isn't ST), because I know of people who do that type of play, although they don't get shuffled up on every round.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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February 8th, 2015 at 9:13:36 AM permalink
Quote: RS

I can think of a different reason ...

Ya gonna tell us?
AcesAndEights
AcesAndEights
Joined: Jan 5, 2012
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February 8th, 2015 at 1:34:13 PM permalink
Quote: chaunceyb3

It was indeed a 10/Ace steering play. The casino had worn out/poorly maintained hole cameras, causing the dealer to jam the cards into the reader multiple times and fray/warp the corners of 10/Ace cards.

The play had an edge of 22% after the shuffle, and he got a fresh shuffle after each hand. He took them for a little under $1 Million in 3 months (Richard M. mentioned $600K).

Bill Zender's article is here.


Thanks Chauncy. I was hoping someone would have the link. Very fascinating play.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer

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