Is Ratholing Illegal?
Quote: EvenBobThey're the spider
who spun the web that drew you in,
and they must have as much as they
can possibly get from you.
There's no right or wrong to the message boards either.
People have to rationalize all of this stuff out somewhere, so that they might obscure the prevailing casino mentality. Ie, to keep things fun/productive for themselves. How can it be fun/productive for anyone when the casino's are, in reality, such "rich beggars".
Consequently, all that some of us can do on the message boards is to draw people further into such arguments and weak rationales.
There is no clear and right way to tip/comp, etc, because of the casinos. The more that they so covertly refine their own practices of accounting, etc, the more bewitched, bothered and bewildered, become the players.
Quote: Kerkebet
Consequently, all that some of us can do on the message boards is to draw people further into such arguments and weak rationales.
It's not a weak rationale, it's a fact that casinos
are too greedy to let even losing counters continue.
I've read it countless times in articles and interviews
with casino employees, especially surveillance. The
casino will spend $10 to keep a counter from winning
$5, just because they can't stand it that somebody
might be getting something over on them. The casino
is supposed to be the clever one, not the player.
You may be reading that, but I doubt thats true.Quote: EvenBob
I've read it countless times in articles and interviews
with casino employees, especially surveillance. The
casino will spend $10 to keep a counter from winning
$5,
It costs almost nothing to smoke out simple counters.
Quote: 1BBRight you are about the movie, Zcore, and let's not forget Beat The Dealer. The casinos should be paying Dr Thorp royalties.
The Hustler and The Color of Money did the same for pool players.
Quote:The larger significance of Srivastava’s winning hack, though, is the confirmation that the lottery is often more contrived than spontaneous. “There is nothing random about the lottery,” he said. “In reality, everything about the game has been carefully designed to control payouts and entice the consumer.”
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/02/02/statistician-cracked-lottery/
Specifically bullet number four may be something you should think about before rat holing. FINCen has not offered us much guidance on this so some casinos will take this too an extreme and issue a SAR at the drop of a hat. Bullet point number one may also be of some interest to some of you.
http://www.mondaq.com/unitedstates/x/323206/Money+Laundering/FinCEN+Doubles+Down+on+Casinos+with+Heightened+Regulatory+Expectations
Quote: EvenBobIt's not a weak rationale, it's a fact that casinos
are too greedy to let even losing counters continue.
So true. And I enjoyed your spider web analogy.
Sometimes greed is the casino's own worst enemy. It boggles my mind that so many Strip casinos will only allow doubling down on 10 or 11. Even though the vast vast majority of Vegas players are wasted on alcohol, the house wants to discourage doubling down because the bean counters are worried that a competent player might possibly double on an obscure hand (like soft 3 vs dealer 5). Management is cutting off their nose to spite their face. That stupid rule costs the house millions in lost revenue, but they'd rather take that loss than let a competent player win.
Edit: Plus, it'll make it 10x easier to spot a counter. What's easier to catch, someone who surrenders, doubles, etc. probably (like soft hands)? Or someone who can only double with 10 or 11 and can't double soft hands or surrender?
Quote: RSIMO, it's ridiculous not to have late surrender. Someone gets drunk and they start surrendering every 12-16 they have. Same with soft doubling. Ploppies have a hard time making proper soft doubles, either they're too aggressive (good for the house) or they don't do it enough (which is same/closer to not permitting it). And why would you want to discourage someone from doubling hard 8 or lower...or hard 12 or higher (from a casino standpoint)?
Edit: Plus, it'll make it 10x easier to spot a counter. What's easier to catch, someone who surrenders, doubles, etc. probably (like soft hands)? Or someone who can only double with 10 or 11 and can't double soft hands or surrender?
If everyone used surrender properly the casino would probably pull it. We all know that will never happen. Atlantic City just doesn't get it and it's doubtful they ever will. Very foolish, costly and shortsighted.
Quote: GreasyjohnOne of the key elements of rat holing is to do it when the pit isn't looking. And make the move as undetectable as possible and innocent at the same time.
Just because you think the pit doesn't know, doesn't mean that they don't. A good floorman knows who has how much in chips. If the dealer catches it, he may tell the floor on break about it, especially if the player wasn't tipping.
If the pit does suspect ratholing they probably won't confront the player, but note it in the comments section of the players account. If they are smart, they will be sure to not offer that player any future offers or rebates. The casinos play the cat and mouse game too.
Really hot, crowded craps table. Both of my racks were getting full and starting to collect lots of blacks and some yellows. Those are going in my pocket - not to deceive anyone but to protect my own money.
No way in hell i am going to be the jackass to slow down the dice to color up when I'm not leaving - so what else to do?
Quote: NostronThis doesnt happen nearly enough but it did my last trip to Paris back in January.
Really hot, crowded craps table. Both of my racks were getting full and starting to collect lots of blacks and some yellows. Those are going in my pocket - not to deceive anyone but to protect my own money.
No way in hell i am going to be the jackass to slow down the dice to color up when I'm not leaving - so what else to do?
That doesn't fit the definition of ratholing.
