Do you think DI is possible?

Quote: MrV

Indeed it is.

Here's some slo-mo DI pics

I love it!

The dice throw looks good. At least it looks good to me. The problem is when it hits the felt not to mention the pyramids. The dice instantly became scrambled and turned every which way.

Quote: MrV

Indeed it is.

Here's some slo-mo DI pics

Did the red one even hit the back wall?

I played with him once, it was fun.

Quote: petroglyph

Quote: MrV

Indeed it is.

Here's some slo-mo DI pics

Did the red one even hit the back wall?

I played with him once, it was fun.

If that's the best of the best slow-mo videos he could muster up we have a problem.


Not sure why a guy who has a 24/7 365 with unlimited bet sizing advantage would wast so much time with videos and getting people to believe DI is real?

You played with him once? And how much was he betting? Any idea what type of advantage he thinks hes working with?

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: petroglyph

Quote: MrV

Indeed it is.

Here's some slo-mo DI pics

Did the red one even hit the back wall?

I played with him once, it was fun.

If that's the best of the best slow-mo videos he could muster up we have a problem.


Not sure why a guy who has a 24/7 365 with unlimited bet sizing advantage would wast so much time with videos and getting people to believe DI is real?

You played with him once? And how much was he betting? Any idea what type of advantage he thinks hes working with?

I was to mesmerized by the dice spinning in unison, to do much clever betting, I'm a red chip player when I bet.

Quote: RS

I love it!

The dice throw looks good. At least it looks good to me. The problem is when it hits the felt not to mention the pyramids. The dice instantly became scrambled and turned every which way.

Wow. Beautiful in sync right until it hits the felt. It looks to me like one of the dice doesn’t flip much after hitting and the second die bounces crazily.

When that video ran, YouTube gave me another video by the same person called Hardway Set number 2. Again, beautiful toss until the die landed. In this video both dice bounce crazy and the result is a 1 and 4. Why show us hitting a non hardway shot where one of the die clearly pops off axis and lands on a 1? LOL

Quote: petroglyph

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: petroglyph

Did the red one even hit the back wall?

I played with him once, it was fun.

If that's the best of the best slow-mo videos he could muster up we have a problem.


Not sure why a guy who has a 24/7 365 with unlimited bet sizing advantage would wast so much time with videos and getting people to believe DI is real?

You played with him once? And how much was he betting? Any idea what type of advantage he thinks hes working with?

I was to mesmerized by the dice spinning in unison, to do much clever betting, I'm a red chip player when I bet.

I think AW’s question was how much was the guy from the video betting, not you.

I think in order to prove you are able to influence the dice you have to not only prove you can do it from a table at home, you have to be able to prove it on different sized tables and from different positions on that table as not all casino table are uniform in size and you don't always get to play from your desired location. Much like a basketball player might like the shot from the top of the key, that shot might not always be available to him. None of the videos I have watched have even come close to proving this.

Quote: Gabes22

I think in order to prove you are able to influence the dice you have to not only prove you can do it from a table at home, you have to be able to prove it on different sized tables and from different positions on that table as not all casino table are uniform in size and you don't always get to play from your desired location. Much like a basketball player might like the shot from the top of the key, that shot might not always be available to him. None of the videos I have watched have even come close to proving this.

Mr. Gabes, I wholeheartedly agree with you that DI is a myth, but disagree with your premise that an alleged DI must prove he can do it from any position on the table. I would say the opposite; if he can prove it from any ONE legal throwing position on the table that would be enough for me. There are enough tables in enough casinos and enough hours in the day that finding that spot would be easy enough to make money if DI existed.

But then how would you account for tables of differing lengths? THere are 12 foot tables, 14 footers, 16 footers etc. Even if you get the same spot on all three, those are three throws of differing lengths, trajectories etc? And not every town is Las Vegas where there are tons of casinos. Here in say the Chicago market, if you don't find your ideal spot at a particular casino, you might have to drive a half hour to forty-five minutes to get to another one.

And I don't think you have to be able to do it from any position on the table, but you have to be able to do it from multiple spots, because like I stated there are different table sizes and you will not always be able to get to your ideal position

Quote: Gabes22

But then how would you account for tables of differing lengths? THere are 12 foot tables, 14 footers, 16 footers etc. Even if you get the same spot on all three, those are three throws of differing lengths, trajectories etc? And not every town is Las Vegas where there are tons of casinos. Here in say the Chicago market, if you don't find your ideal spot at a particular casino, you might have to drive a half hour to forty-five minutes to get to another one.

And I don't think you have to be able to do it from any position on the table, but you have to be able to do it from multiple spots, because like I stated there are different table sizes and you will not always be able to get to your ideal position

I still disagree. I live in metro Buffalo. At least 6 casinos within a short drive that have craps. They all seem to be the same size, the big ones... so 16 feet? If I could identify one spot I could DI with an edge of just 3% and there was no 'heat' I'd make $1,000,000 easily. But I wouldn't be posting about it....

Quote: MrV

Indeed it is.

Here's some slo-mo DI pics

What I see from this video without high speed:

A definitely skilled toss as far as the practice and focus needed for its execution.

Prior to landing:
The Right die is leading the left die by a 1/4 inch to half the width of a die's side.
The Right die is leaning very slightly to the right (clockwise around front-to-back axis).
They maintain this closeness at initial table impact.

At landing:
The Right die's near-right corner vertex hits first.
The Right die necessarily begins its opposite motion to the left and collides
into the Left die.
Equal mass of each die "stabilizes" right die to the extent that its
forward motion becomes a clockwise yaw and the energy it imparts to
the Left die probably leaves the Right die failing to make it to the back wall.
The Left die, which looks to have been straighter to the table surface and capable of
moving more "orderly" than the Right die, is instead given a shove to the left
by the Right die and flies off at an unpredictable angle towards the pyramids.
The Left die probably made its initial table impact with its own near vertices. However,
the shove by the Right die allows its razor-edged vertices to catapult it back and towards
the left into the pyramids which then further confound its motion prior to coming to rest.

If the dice were not as close together, the Right die likely would have traveled
more randomly than the Left die and crossed its path.

In any case the hardway 2/2 result was clearly lucky/accidental/unpredictable, and
you would be given a warning to hit the back wall with both dice in most venues
these days.

Quote: unJon

I think AW’s question was how much was the guy from the video betting, not you.

No, my point was that one of the "best DI's" was probably only betting a small amount on himself.

Quote: AxelWolf

No, my point was that one of the "best DI's" was probably only betting a small amount on himself.

I know. But Petroglyph answered about how much Petroglyph was betting. So either your question went unanswered or Petroglyph is the referenced “best DIs”, which is possible as I’m new here and don’t know who anyone is.

This debate has been going on for hundreds of years by scientists and mathematicians.
My comments are ojective and from live play observation.
To connote DI in the game of craps as a dice roll or shoot, it is not, DI is a focused 'Toss'.
Yes, different sets bring out different desired numbers for a DI player, but not every toss.
Any DI further away from S1 or S2 is only compounding physics.
DI from the hook or any place can work, but again, see the above.
Many are confusing DI with DC.
A DI player can only influence outcomes (not every outcome) and at times be right on the number aimed for.
Random rolling it is not. Does DI work each and every time? No, but it beats random rolling any day of the week.
Hitting the back 'random diamonds' is mandatory. A DI players seeks out a 'sweet spot' on a consistent basis that returns an inordinate amount of desirable numbers.
DI to me is everything put together to help determine the desired outcome.

Discuss, no need for innuendos, be adult.

Quote: WizardofDice

Hitting the back 'random diamonds' is mandatory.

why do the "random diamonds" (pyramids) fail to randomize as they're intended to do?

are they defective? were the engineers who designed a craps table incompetent? you seem to be suggesting that.

Quote: WizardofDice

DI to me is everything put together to help determine the desired outcome.

Please provide some proof that it is viable; otherwise it's just you espousing your "belief" in something which cannot be proven.

By "proof" I mean results obtained via application of the scientific method.

If a robot can do it, it’s possible a human can do it. Can a robot do it?

Quote: FinsRule

If a robot can do it, it’s possible a human can do it. Can a robot do it?

Excellent point, Fin! Excellent!

As the C-G.O.A.T. I do not discount that it can be done effectively, but I dont have reason to believe it can be done on a consistent and reliable basis either. I have played more live craps than most humans and I have yet to see anyone who attempts to set dice consistently roll numbers they try to roll or try to avoid.... actually it has been to the contrary as most dice setters 7 out very quickly from my observations.

That being said, years ago (my pre-enlightened craps years) a guy told me how he set the 6's showing on top and he could get aces and ace / deuce to land buy trying to land the dice just as they show with 6s on top. land an inch or two from back wall flat. I did see him throw a few craps. I tried it a few times and I recall actually landing a few aces, ace/deuce. I dont recall doing it enough to get me to change my game or strategy.

Yesterday I thought about it while at the craps table. So, when the dice came to me to shoot, I took the 6s showing on top and threw them the same way as described above. I laughed as I threw them because I had a strange feeling I would roll the aces. Yep, the first roll were aces. I did it a second time and put 100 on any craps. Second roll was ace / deuce. Third roll was a 1 / 3. I then went to my usual play and rolled 3 numbers and went off. Rolled 5 more numbers and walked out the door with a W.

I dont know what to think about those aces and ace / deuce.... Im not fully on board but there may be something to it.

Quote: WatchMeWin

Excellent point, Fin! Excellent!

Not sure if you’re being sarcastic, but welcome back (honestly).

I didn’t rat you out or anything FYI.

I’ve got a pretty thick skin when it comes to Internet forums actually affective my real life.

Quote: WizardofDice

A DI player can only influence outcomes
No, but it beats random rolling any day of the week.
be adult.

They cannot.
It does not.

I am a man of science. I have watched the videos of controlled tosses. There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to believe any of these tosses yield anything other than random results. NONE.

If an adult tells me there is a green man living on the moon, which is essentially what DI proponents are saying, what is the 'adult' way for me to respond?

Quote: SOOPOO

They cannot.
It does not.

I am a man of science. I have watched the videos of controlled tosses. There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to believe any of these tosses yield anything other than random results. NONE.

If an adult tells me there is a green man living on the moon, which is essentially what DI proponents are saying, what is the 'adult' way for me to respond?

If someone could do it, they would NOT videotape it. Because you have not seen visual evidence does not mean it’s not possible.

If you see what professional darts players can do, it makes me think that it’s at least possible.

The key word is “possible”

Quote: FinsRule

If someone could do it, they would NOT videotape it. Because you have not seen visual evidence does not mean it’s not possible.

If you see what professional darts players can do, it makes me think that it’s at least possible.

The key word is “possible”

There is no item in darts that is made to specifically randomize a throw. Not even comparable.


ZCore13

No diamonds on the bottom of the wall.

Quote: Zcore13

There is no item in darts that is made to specifically randomize a throw. Not even comparable.


ZCore13

It's actully to the contrary, everything has been designed so you can control the outcome. You have to love when so-called DI's compare proven skilled sports with DI. That just means they have nothing. Pathetic.


Even worst, someone who thinks that a hit and run money management and hydration betting system has a better chance than DI.

While I don't think DI is humanly possible, I do think it could be accomplished given a controlled environment. There is no environment, other than fantasy land, a betting system can beat a -EV game.

Quote: Zcore13

There is no item in darts that is made to specifically randomize a throw. Not even comparable.


ZCore13

Maybe if they had dice with fins on them?

Isn't there a DI chapter in beyond counting exhibit caa?