Dice setter meetup at ELEMENTS casino, Brantford
Quote: Laymedownpetroglyph are you joking with me with this question? petroglyph the nine pays 3:2 or 1.5 to 1 on 100% of the craps tables.
I would never pay for dice lessons and in turn I would never charge for dice lessons.
This is just stupid in knowing they can easily visit a craps table and just make the money in a couple hours of play.
FREE LESSON.
Put the 4's up and toss the dice to the back wall.
The 9 pays 7 to 5 not 3 to 2. I’m assuming that’s what he means.
Quote: LaymedownDon't listen to PokerGrinder, he's obviously on meds and drinking at the same time. Most likely Pepto Bizmol and Vodka.
If you are talking about place bets then 4&10 pay 9-5, 9&5 pay 7-5 and 6&8 pay 7-6. I’m not on anything but for a professional you don’t even know what your trending number pays lol.
You said in another thread earlier that your $25 9 pays $35, that’s 7-5 mr professional. 🤦♂️
Forgive me if you addressed this before, but when you goal is to maximize nines, what would you say is your ratio of sevens to total rolls overall on a good table in good conditions?
Quote: WizardLay, I appreciate your honesty in reporting your bad sessions, as well as good.
Forgive me if you addressed this before, but when you goal is to maximize nines, what would you say is your ratio of sevens to total rolls overall on a good table in good conditions?
LMD, not everybody gets a response from the Wizard, I hope you realize that. But I am giving odds you blow it, as far as, I dunno, something like being able to give an intelligent response like someone authentically interested in smarter gambling.
Please clarify.
Do you PLACE the nine, or BUY it, or just hope it becomes the point / come bet number?
Your answer determines the payoff, i.e. 3-2 or 7-5.
Craps 101.
Quote: MrVLMD:
Please clarify.
Do you PLACE the nine, or BUY it, or just hope it becomes the point / come bet number?
Your answer determines the payoff, i.e. 3-2 or 7-5.
Craps 101.
He said $25 pays $35 which means he places it.
Quote: PokerGrinderHe said $25 pays $35 which means he places it.
He also just posted " the nine pays 3:2 ."
Pretty confusing / confused guy.
Quote: MrVHe also just posted " the nine pays 3:2 ."
Pretty confusing / confused guy.
He posted that I’m drinking and huffing paint or whatever I’m on lol. Apparently I’m crazy to say 9 pays 7-5 🤦♂️🤷♂️
Quote: Laymedown100% of the bets on my nine will show profit especially when the payout is 1.5 to my wager. I can not lose on the nine. Sorry. Keep your money. I prefer to earn it at the tables.
This was the statement that I questioned. I was curious if your casino paid 3-2 on place bets, or if you meant this 3-2 payout was just for your odds bet behind your line bet?
As PokerG mentioned above, the casinos here [Vegas] only pay 9-5 on the 4/10, 7-6 on the 6/8, or 7-5 on the 5&9. If your casino pays the 3-2 odds on a place 9 bet, they are paying you true odds or no HE.
Curious now, what do they pay for a place 4 or 10, and do you recall how they pay for field bets?
Quote: WatchMeWinSo why did OntarioDealer abruptly say 'Im out' after he discovered he knew who LMD was? Is that a good or bad signal. Im inclined to thing the latter.
I only see 1 likely conclusion from this: OntarioDealer believes LMD wouldn't pay off the bet if he lost the challenge, or believes he would engage in other kinds of shenanigans to make life difficult for those betting against him in any hypothetical challenge.
There is an unlikely conclusion as well: that OD believes LMD could actually win the challenge and thus wouldn't bet against him. I consider this unlikely since OD has said many times that he watches lots of prospective DIs come through his tables and none of them win. So if he knows LMD, that implies LMD is in that group.
I guess I just thought of another potential conclusion: he knows LMD is down on his luck or doesn't have a lot of disposable income, and would feel bad betting against him.
I seem to remember you saying you were a fan of Ahigh? How would you like to shoot on his old table?Quote: Laymedown
When I heard Ahigh was selling his table, I told my friend(he likes craps, but I don't hold that against him) about it. He quickly snapped it up for a good price.
I didn't think he would be willing to mess around with some random internet guy so I didn't really consider mentioning it to him before.
Yesterday, I casually mentioned it to him, and to my surprise, he said he would be willing to host a challenge if he could get some decent action down on the challenge. So we now have access to a private table in Vegas. Now it's up to you to make it worthwhile for everyone involved.
But I haven't played craps in years since I rolled my 6 point fire.
And since then I've self-excluded (now 2.5 years) due to a terrible year and seeking other things to do as a hobby.
Though I set dice myself I don't believe that it has enough effect to overcome the 4% advantage on a place 5/9. It's nice to think that it does, but given that no one in the history of WOV has posted a set of independently verified dice results showing an analysis out of the ordinary I doubt it exists except in minds subceptible to confirmation bias.
The only analysis we've done on craps proved that an online casino was cheating a patron. Many of us are quite capable of taking data and figuring out if it shows an advantage with certainty.
Quote: WizardLay, I appreciate your honesty in reporting your bad sessions, as well as good.
Forgive me if you addressed this before, but when you goal is to maximize nines, what would you say is your ratio of sevens to total rolls overall on a good table in good conditions?
Wizard, When someone starts off with a favorite dice set, session after session you see them roll their trending numbers.
Two of my trending numbers are Two's & Nines, Another shooter using the same set rolls 3 crap pretty much every time we get the dice.
Although I'm quite used to the tables at some casino's, I'm not consistent in others but my trending numbers are still there.
As far as RATIO, I only bet the 5 & 9 when I play at the tables and WIN/LOSS = 60/40 averaging 2 nines before a seven. (I can't put the math behind this part)
I do however PSO (Point Seven Out) 3:10
In confidence I can say In a competition I can make more fire bets faster than anyone else can. (Not to brag) but my dice set and rolling style constitutes for repeated numbers quite frequently in a short time. In most cases back to back.
Quote: boymimboQuite simply, laymedown can't prove anything. Now I would love to watch a session of his but given my fallsview/Niagara sessions in the past it is quite likely that I know both Ontario dealer and laymedown. I know Romeo.
But I haven't played craps in years since I rolled my 6 point fire.
And since then I've self-excluded (now 2.5 years) due to a terrible year and seeking other things to do as a hobby.
Though I set dice myself I don't believe that it has enough effect to overcome the 4% advantage on a place 5/9. It's nice to think that it does, but given that no one in the history of WOV has posted a set of independently verified dice results showing an analysis out of the ordinary I doubt it exists except in minds subceptible to confirmation bias.
The only analysis we've done on craps proved that an online casino was cheating a patron. Many of us are quite capable of taking data and figuring out if it shows an advantage with certainty.
boymimbo, try the tables there now and you will find, the dice are dead. They don't bounce there is no clickity-clack-clack instead they hit the felt and start to roll towards the back wall. I know I should not be using excuses but damn! The dice had no life to them.
I also noticed when dice go out with 4, 2 on top, the damn seven got rolled as i it was the only number on the dice, My wife and I both noticed that at least 6 different times.
boymimbo, Niagara Falls is nice but I'll prefer to shoot in brantford.
Quote: AxelWolfYesterday, I casually mentioned it to him, and to my surprise, he said he would be willing to host a challenge if he could get some decent action down on the challenge. So we now have access to a private table in Vegas. Now it's up to you to make it worthwhile for everyone involved.
The challenge to the challenge will be getting LMD to Vegas. It would be nice to do this around the Spring Fling (May 19).
There should be a limit to the number if times you can post about your system or whatever, before you have to put up or shut up about it.Quote: WizardThe challenge to the challenge will be getting LMD to Vegas. It would be nice to do this around the Spring Fling (May 19).
Perhaps we can get WMW here as well.
Try to get as many WoVers there crowding the table as possible, have LMD shoot and keep "passing the dice" back to him to give him ample opportunity to back up his claim.
No, it's not ideal but it could work, maybe.
Quote: MrVIf all else fails, maybe the Main Event will have to occur at a craps table in the casino at Brantford.
Try to get as many WoVers there crowding the table as possible, have LMD shoot and keep "passing the dice" back to him to give him ample opportunity to back up his claim.
No, it's not ideal but it could work, maybe.
I must give LMD credit for trying to meet up in NF. He gave me the times he was going to be there but I was the one who couldn't make it. I would be willing to make the dismal drive to Brantford if enough WoV ers agree to meet up.
Quote: AxelWolfI seem to remember you saying you were a fan of Ahigh? How would you like to shoot on his old table?
When I heard Ahigh was selling his table, I told my friend(he likes craps, but I don't hold that against him) about it. He quickly snapped it up for a good price.
I didn't think he would be willing to mess around with some random internet guy so I didn't really consider mentioning it to him before.
Yesterday, I casually mentioned it to him, and to my surprise, he said he would be willing to host a challenge if he could get some decent action down on the challenge. So we now have access to a private table in Vegas. Now it's up to you to make it worthwhile for everyone involved.
AxelWolf, I'm sure we will try many challenges, but I'd prefer a school/craps training for challenges. Also if I was to take part in any challenge I would add in a 50 roll practice run leading in to the challenge. (first 50 rolls don't count)
Quote: MrVHe also just posted " the nine pays 3:2 ."
Pretty confusing / confused guy.
My apologies I was just making a joke with the other guy. I thought he was being sarcastic.
Yes, I place the 9 and yes WE SHOULD ALL KNOW BY NOW Place9 pays 7 for each 5 wagered.
Quote: SOOPOOI must give LMD credit for trying to meet up in NF. He gave me the times he was going to be there but I was the one who couldn't make it. I would be willing to make the dismal drive to Brantford if enough WoV ers agree to meet up.
SOOPOO, let's just put this behind us. I've failed two times in the mini challenge practice run. It's enough to say it can't be done at this time.
Again, my apologies for any inconvenience.
Quote: AcesAndEightsI only see 1 likely conclusion from this: OntarioDealer believes LMD wouldn't pay off the bet if he lost the challenge, or believes he would engage in other kinds of shenanigans to make life difficult for those betting against him in any hypothetical challenge.
There is an unlikely conclusion as well: that OD believes LMD could actually win the challenge and thus wouldn't bet against him. I consider this unlikely since OD has said many times that he watches lots of prospective DIs come through his tables and none of them win. So if he knows LMD, that implies LMD is in that group.
I guess I just thought of another potential conclusion: he knows LMD is down on his luck or doesn't have a lot of disposable income, and would feel bad betting against him.
OR
LMD feels like Wov is setting up a potential "Hustle" and ontariodealer wants no part of it.
First off, I can afford to cover any live bets made at the tables. WIN OR LOSE
Second, If there is some kind of potential "Hustle" I will find out about it from trusted sources and bring it forward to Wov directly.
Third, I DON'T DO ESCROW.
OR
LMD is pulling a fast one on Wov to prove that Practical experience blows away math any day of the week when DICE SETTING comes in to play and ontariodealer doesn't choose to believe it.
I've read many articles on this forum and it's my conclusion that you guys just don't want to believe that dice setters can alter the math to give themselves advantage play. DUE TO NO PROOF ON PAPER.
But in reality, it's legit.
Quote: AxelWolfThere should be a limit to the number if times you can post about your system or whatever, before you have to put up or shut up about it.
Perhaps we can get WMW here as well.
Please understand (and i'm sorry for getting a bit personal) at this time, I can not cross the boarder to visit anywhere (I must remain in Canada)
Perhaps in future I will plan to visit casino's outside Canada.
Quote: PokerGrinderHe posted that I’m drinking and huffing paint or whatever I’m on lol. Apparently I’m crazy to say 9 pays 7-5 🤦♂️🤷♂️
PokerGrinder, Relax. I was only playing with you. Don't take it too hard.
I've been playing the game for quite a while, I know what the payouts are.
2 pays 30:1
3 pays 15:1
4 pays 9:5
5 pays 7:5
6 pays 7:6
8 pays 7:6
9 pays 7:5
10 pays 9:5
11 pays 15:1
12 pays 30:1
Let's put this behind us.
Quote: boymimboQuite simply, laymedown can't prove anything. Now I would love to watch a session of his but given my fallsview/Niagara sessions in the past it is quite likely that I know both Ontario dealer and laymedown. I know Romeo.
But I haven't played craps in years since I rolled my 6 point fire.
And since then I've self-excluded (now 2.5 years) due to a terrible year and seeking other things to do as a hobby.
Though I set dice myself I don't believe that it has enough effect to overcome the 4% advantage on a place 5/9. It's nice to think that it does, but given that no one in the history of WOV has posted a set of independently verified dice results showing an analysis out of the ordinary I doubt it exists except in minds subceptible to confirmation bias.
The only analysis we've done on craps proved that an online casino was cheating a patron. Many of us are quite capable of taking data and figuring out if it shows an advantage with certainty.
On another note, I left that casino leaving a couple of the dealers and supervisors stunned.
1) Before I even started rolling the dice, I let Larry the craps supervisor know I will be making a fire bet as he was inspecting the dice.
2) I called out the numbers before even rolling them 5 TIMES during my roll.
3) I made numbers back to back including a four number fire bet in just under 12 rolls.
4) I was making numbers at the request of other players (Mind you this part was lucky)
Adam (craps dealer I think was even blown away from my rolling style and also confirmed with the craps supervisor "Well he did say he was gonna roll it"
This is confidence in knowing I have a high probability to also do it again and again and again.
FALLSVIEW casino craps dealers have no understanding as of yet that it is possible to consistently roll trending numbers repeatedly. They all think it's 100% random and pure luck.
On a professional note: These dealers at FALLSVIEW are very friendly and courteous along with professional, and some even entertaining, leaving us with a smile and good overall experience.
Kudos. We will definitely visit again. If any Wov members want to get together at Fallsview, I can plan any weekend or even a TUESDAY night.
Join us for a complimentary dinner buffet on me.
So are you saying a buy 9 in MS pays more than a place 9 in Vegas? Seems fair.Quote: DeMangoThe bought nine, at $20 and up, does pay 3/2, with vig on win, here in MS. I know the dealers in Vegas get the deer in the headlights look when this conversation comes up. So a $30 nine pays $42 in Vegas and $44 in Mississippi.
Buy9 for 30 would return (45 for 1) or 3:2
Place9 for 30 would return (42) or 7:5
DeMango was pointing out that the norm in MS is to collect buy bet vig on the win. Any "place" bet of $10 or more on a 4 or 10 is automatically a buy bet whether you declare it or not. Might be the same on 5 and 9, but I rarely play those.Quote: GlenGNobody buys points besides 4/10 because most (if not all) casinos charge the Vig up front.
Quote: DocDeMango was pointing out that the norm in MS is to collect buy bet vig on the win. Any "place" bet of $10 or more on a 4 or 10 is automatically a buy bet whether you declare it or not. Might be the same on 5 and 9, but I rarely play those.
4/10 the norm is vig payed on the win. Most places will auto buy them, which is one of the reasons why they dont charge the vig up front. 5/9 will always pay 7:5, if a player wanted to buy it, they have to actually buy it (not auto). In my experience, (1 Vegas Caisno 2 Missouri casinos) if a point besides 4/10 are bought, the vig is payed up front. But in the years ive been dealing craps, 2 maybe 3 people have ever bought a number besides 4/10, so its pretty rare/
For vig on the win, a $10 wager on 5/9 pays $15 - $1 vig = $14, same as a place bet, but a $20 wager pays $30 - $1 vig = $29, which is better than the $28 for the $20 place bet. Not much different, but since the 4/10 buy is automatic ($10+) in MS, I thought the same might be the case on the 5/9.
Maybe they don't do that automatically because of the 3/2 payout getting confusing when folks bet $15 or $25.
Quote: Laymedown
Adam (craps dealer I think was even blown away from my rolling style and also confirmed with the craps supervisor "Well he did say he was gonna roll it"
This is confidence in knowing I have a high probability to also do it again and again and again.
I think he was being sarcastic as well....or making the table a friendly place. No harm in that.
Since we have overcome your presentation as being of a salesman for a seminar, can you kindly eliminate the fear we feel that you will entice/motivate us to participate in a session with you in a real casino and not expect us to throw/give you money after you have a nice long roll? That you won't call us "cheap charlies" if we don't reward your throw and show appreciation for all the money you win us? I can hear it now but maybe I'm wrong? Thanks.
Quote: GlenGIts a good question to ask the Wizard. Why the 4/10 is automatically bought and others are not.
Let me preface this by saying that I really don't like craps and have never dealt any game, much less craps.
That said, I've never once heard a dealer ask a player trying to bet on the 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, or 10, "do you want a place or a buy bet?" Never. It is my understanding that the dealers automatically give players the better of the two, as long as rounding isn't an issue. The better of the two is place bets on the 5, 6, 8, and 10 and buy bets on the 4 and 10, regardless how the commission is charged on the 4 and 10.
As for the rounding issue, that is only an issue on the 4 and 10. You need to bet at least $20 to get the better buy bet odds. If you bet $5, $10, or $15, then you'll get the stingier 9 to 5 odds.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, as always.
Quote: SOOPOOI must give LMD credit for trying to meet up in NF. He gave me the times he was going to be there but I was the one who couldn't make it. I would be willing to make the dismal drive to Brantford if enough WoV ers agree to meet up.
Not nearly as dismal as having to drive the 190 north from the 290 interchange through grand island.
But yeah the QEW / link / 403 trip can be boring. I've only done that drive about 2,000 times. And Brantford itself is pretty dismal with the exception of being the childhood home of the Great One.
Quote: GlenGIts a good question to ask the Wizard. Why the 4/10 is automatically bought and others are not.
house edge 6/8 1.52%...........5/9 4%..........4/10.......6.66%
so years and years ago nobody would place the 4 or 10 so the casino's went to the buying of them to reduce HE to 4.76% and it started people placing them.
Quote: GlenGIts a good question to ask the Wizard. Why the 4/10 is automatically bought and others are not.
When it pays $50 for dollar, noone cares about the vig, but you can place the 4 or 10 and request no buy.
Quote: NokTangI think he was being sarcastic as well....or making the table a friendly place. No harm in that.
Since we have overcome your presentation as being of a salesman for a seminar, can you kindly eliminate the fear we feel that you will entice/motivate us to participate in a session with you in a real casino and not expect us to throw/give you money after you have a nice long roll? That you won't call us "cheap charlies" if we don't reward your throw and show appreciation for all the money you win us? I can hear it now but maybe I'm wrong? Thanks.
If you win money off my roll, all the power to you. It's a great feeling to see many people making money from my long 30-40 number rolls.
I also make my own bets and can average a good 400.00 off my roll, so no charity needed. I would never call anyone cheap charlie's even though it's very satisfying when someone throws a $25 chip your way for the good roll. I return the favor by putting dealers in the game.
Quote: LaymedownWhen it pays $50 for dollar, noone cares about the vig, but you can place the 4 or 10 and request no buy.
Post $20, why would you request no buy?
For $20.00 yeah, not worth the buy.
Quote: GlenGNobody buys points besides 4/10 because most (if not all) casinos charge the Vig up front.
That's what the thieves in Vegas do, charge upfront.
Quote: DeMangoThat's what the thieves in Vegas do, charge upfront.
Its nationwide.
Also it's not theviery. Nobody is forcing you to play
Quote: LaymedownYou can Buy the 4-10 up to 35.00 each with a single dollar, If you choose no buy you just get the cheaper odds payout 9:5 instead of the true odds -vig payout 2:1. 99% of the time, just pay the extra dollar.
For $20.00 yeah, not worth the buy.
So you would rather get played $36 instead of $39?
Quote: GlenGSo you would rather get played $36 instead of $39?
GlenG haven’t you been reading this and many other LMD threads? LOGIC IS NOT ALLOWED! Better watch yourself or I’ll get a mod to drop the hammer on you for not following the rules of LMD’s thread. 🤣
