Weird But Fair Dice (plus the D120) - Numberphile

Symmetry in geometric objects makes these dice fair, but I wouldn't try 'em in a casino.

6:24 YouTube video from Numberphile...

2:53 follow-up

That was awesome and really interesting. Thanks for sharing!

Too bad those aren't legal in New Jersey, those skewed D6s would get rid of any hope of dice influence.

Quote: DGE Regulations 13:69E-1.15 Dice; physical characteristics

(a) Except as otherwise provided in (b) below, each die used in gaming shall:
1. Be formed in the shape of a perfect cube and of a size no smaller than
0.750 of an inch on each side nor any larger than 0.775 of an inch on each
side;

Hey check THIS brand-new YouTube video out !!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHh0ui5mi_E
7:00

Check out my replies to it... I have t the patent on his question, and the Wizard had an even better way to approach it.

How can you have a patent on a question? A question is a written expression, not a process, machine, manufacture, or composition of matter. Written expressions aren't patentable -- that's what copyright law is for.

We've had this conversation in the past, Math.. my patent has specific maps listed in it, and you indicated that I can't have such a patent because it covers math itself.

You are correct, as always, about me "owning" any particular mapping. The claims of the patent generically covers ALL situations where a range of random outcomes is mapped into MULTIPLE ranges of outcomes, concurrently. That means that I own ALL side bets in ALL games. Check it out... they don't issue method patents in gaming very often.

The specific question in this video was discussed on this forum.

"My" mapping equates the 3-dice 7, 14, and all triples to the 2-dice 7, and keeps everything symmetrical around of the center of ways (the 10 and 11 in 3-dice). Remember, that's why I called it "Three-dice craps, 7, 14 and trips-outs" (and you didn't like the name).

http://spikersystems.com/FlashNet_Pointer/www/downloads/SpikerSystems/e-Gamers/AAA_Information/Pass_line_odds_output.txt

(scroll down to the mapping tables in section 17 and beyond...)

Quote: discflicker

The claims of the patent generically covers ALL situations where a range of random outcomes is mapped into MULTIPLE ranges of outcomes, concurrently. That means that I own ALL side bets in ALL games.

No you don't. If you're talking about your patent 8,246,446, that has priority to 2008. I have side bets older than that, including several side bet for craps (using dice). If you construe any of your patent claims to read on my older games, that is an inherent admission that your later-filed claims are not novel and therefore your claims are invalid over my prior art. I highly recommend speaking to your patent counsel before making specious claims like "I own ALL side bets in ALL games." You need to understand what your patent covers and, more importantly, what it doesn't.

It makes me feel like a big-shot to say it, I guess. Even though I will never enforce it or sue anyone over it, the claims are as I stated. But they can't affect existing art, for example, the game of roulette itself is a multi-mapping of ranges, all played concurrently.

So, to make it clear, no, I do not construe any of my patent claims to supersede any prior art claims.

Anything invented after 8,246,446, is ??? The US patent office has cited 8,246,446, in at least one other application for grant.

In hindsight, maybe I should just keep my mouth shut, eh? Especially on WOV, I now realize it comes off sounding like a pompous threat. You are right again MathEx, and I still owe you a bunch of golf discs, now I owe some more.

Quote: discflicker

It makes me feel like a big-shot to say it, I guess. Even though I will never enforce it or sue anyone over it, the claims are as I stated. But they can't affect existing art, for example, the game of roulette itself is a multi-mapping of ranges, all played concurrently.

So, to make it clear, no, I do not construe any of my patent claims to supersede any prior art claims.

Anything invented after 8,246,446, is ??? The US patent office has cited 8,246,446, in at least one other application for grant.

In hindsight, maybe I should just keep my mouth shut, eh? Especially on WOV, I now realize it comes off sounding like a pompous threat. You are right again MathEx, and I still owe you a bunch of golf discs, now I owe some more.

If you're never going to enforce your patent, why did you file it?

Also, you don't get to say that roulette is the same as your patent but your patent is still valid. A patent cannot preclude someone doing in the future what was done before the patent was filed. There's a succinct saying in patent litigation: that which infringes if later anticipates if before.

My first patent case involved a guy who thought he had a patent on all ways of playing bingo. That's not how the judge saw it...

Quote: MathExtremist

If you're never going to enforce your patent, why did you file it?

My nephew David was with me, but he jumped ship and took two of my patent-able ideas with him. He actually got those two ideas patented and granted, and then after the fact, asked me if it was OK. I went on, improving our demos and our original two patents got rejected because the prior art cited did pretty much the same thing. MathEx, you were involved in this way back when. My patent lawyer (Jon Shackleford, no relation to the Wizard) and I then changed our wording to specifically say "Multiple-Concurrent" because we noticed that the prior art specified a one to one mapping being performed.

I was totally shocked when it was approved, and so we went back and changed the wording on the TruePlace Bet patent and it got approved as well.

But by then, our "company" was defunct because David and I had another falling out (over some family Trust issues), and so I just kept the maintaining/improving the code pretty much as a hobby with hopes that David would come back to me. And then 3 years ago I was told that I have Leukemia. That really sucks, BTW.

So much work was put into the code and the patents, I just can't throw it away. So now, I'm more of a troll than an active developer, throwing my weight around and bragging about how I "Own Vegas". That shit might work in prison, but it ain't gonna fly on WOV. My apologies again, Math.

HOWEVER, I should win the maths contest on the YouTube video, shouldn't I? The question he asked is written up in the patent itself!

Are you familiar with the Galileo paper SOPRA LE SCOPERTE DEI DADI?

Quote: discflicker

So much work was put into the code and the patents, I just can't throw it away.

Sure you can. Inventors let their patents go abandoned all the time when they don't or can't make money. Consider US 5,975,529, it lapsed due to non-payment of maintenance fees. You should treat your IP like any other business venture -- if it doesn't make sense to keep investing in what you formerly thought was going to make money, stop. Patents are no different than any other business investment, and as they say, don't throw good money after bad.

The only exception is if you want to own a patent just for the sake of owning it, costs be damned. But that's not running a business, that's being a hobbyist collector. There's nothing wrong with having a collection, but patents are an odd thing to collect...

Sorry to hear about the health problems, btw.

Quote: discflicker

Hey check THIS brand-new YouTube video out !!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHh0ui5mi_E
7:00

Check out my replies to it... I have t the patent on his question, and the Wizard had an even better way to approach it.

My solution (also emailed to Matt)
Three-dice-to-two solution:

If the sum of the three dice is 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, or 18 eliminate the lowest numbered die, then use two remaining dice.

If the sum of the three dice is 4, 5, 10, 11, 16, or 17, eliminate the highest numbered die, then use two remaining dice.

If the sum of the three is 7, 8, 13, or 14, eliminate the middle numbered die, then use two remaining dice

Example, 1 + 1 + 4 = 6, so eliminate lowest numbered die and it is the same as rolling 1 and 4 on two dice

(That will give you the correct distribution from 1-36; can also eliminate the highest and lowest die based on odd / even to give the correct distribution from 2-12)

Unless I'm misunderstanding your mapping, I don't see how that works; just examining 1,1,1, 1,1,2, and 1,1,3 all yield the two dice combo of 1,1 with a probability of 7/216 (which is too high). Similarly, only 6,6,6 and 6,6,3 yield 6,6 so the probability there is too small.

Quote: MathExtremist

Unless I'm misunderstanding your mapping, I don't see how that works;

Damnit. Should've known it was too easy when the guy who made the video couldn't figure something out. I do like to think I'm on the right track with eliminating one of the dice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBn9DMH4g-k&feature=youtu.be

Quote: TomG

Damnit. Should've known it was too easy when the guy who made the video couldn't figure something out. I do like to think I'm on the right track with eliminating one of the dice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBn9DMH4g-k&feature=youtu.be
32:08

This is my video response to the YouTube video!!!!!!!

When you email Matt apologizing for wasting his time, please mention this to him. Thanks!


GOOD CATCH, MathEx!!!

Quote: MathExtremist

Sure you can. Inventors let their patents go abandoned all the time when they don't or can't make money. Consider US 5,975,529, it lapsed due to non-payment of maintenance fees. You should treat your IP like any other business venture -- if it doesn't make sense to keep investing in what you formerly thought was going to make money, stop. Patents are no different than any other business investment, and as they say, don't throw good money after bad.

The only exception is if you want to own a patent just for the sake of owning it, costs be damned. But that's not running a business, that's being a hobbyist collector. There's nothing wrong with having a collection, but patents are an odd thing to collect...

HOLD ON JUST A SECOND.

I have well over TEN MAN YEARS of work exclusively on SpikerSystems gaming development code. Don't get me started. The code is based upon the non-stop architecture of the Alarm Notification System that Ford Motor Company used world-wide, and it is STILL IN USE (as a "legacy system") after 22 YEARS. I wrote every line of the ANS code. If you add that in, I have a total of 22 MAN-YEARS of my blood and sweat poured into this code. Its like killing a dog or a child. Or a cat!

The company might be defunct, but the code and the ideas live on, APPARENTLY, BECAUSE NOBODY HAS FIGURED THE ANSWER ON YouTube YET!

I hope you have a chance to watch my YouTube response video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBn9DMH4g-k&feature=youtu.be
32:08

...

WHAT MAINTENANCE FEES??

I'm not fond of cats, dogs either for that matter.
I gotta couple of childs, depends on when you ask me.
I brought you into this world, I should be able to take you out. (Quote, sort-of)

Why did you just pop-up and start posting again?
What are you looking for, aside from chat back and forth with ME that could be done via PM?

Quote: discflicker

If you add that in, I have a total of 22 MAN-YEARS of my blood and sweat poured into this code. Its like killing a dog or a child. Or a cat!

If it's like a child to you then you have "inventoritis." It's not the best way to run a business. I won't advise you to dump your project if you still have faith and believe in it, but there's a difference between blind faith and actual financial results. Sound businesses aren't run on blind faith, they're run on demonstrable revenues. If you're not making any money, and you don't expect to ever make any money in the future, ask yourself whether it's worth trying to keep the dream alive.

Quote: discflicker

WHAT MAINTENANCE FEES??

The ones you're late on:

https://fees.uspto.gov/MaintenanceFees/fees/details?applicationNumber=12465240&patentNumber=8246446

Might be time to have a call with your attorney...

Quote: MathExtremist

If it's like a child to you then you have "inventoritis." It's not the best way to run a business. I won't advise you to dump your project if you still have faith and believe in it, but there's a difference between blind faith and actual financial results. Sound businesses aren't run on blind faith, they're run on demonstrable revenues. If you're not making any money, and you don't expect to ever make any money in the future, ask yourself whether it's worth trying to keep the dream alive.

I've been called worse, but thanks for the honest appraisal.

Quote: discflicker

WHAT MAINTENANCE FEES??

The ones you're late on:

https://fees.uspto.gov/MaintenanceFees/fees/details?applicationNumber=12465240&patentNumber=8246446

Might be time to have a call with your attorney...

HOLLY CRAP!!! Am I too late to salvage this??

THANK YOU!! THANK YOU!!!

Quote: TwoFeathersATL

I'm not fond of cats, dogs either for that matter.
I gotta couple of childs, depends on when you ask me.
I brought you into this world, I should be able to take you out. (Quote, sort-of)

Why did you just pop-up and start posting again?
What are you looking for, aside from chat back and forth with ME that could be done via PM?

What PM?

Your "Quote" is completely misunderstood.

I started posting again because of these YouTube vids of interest, as I've done for years here on WOV.

I have no idea what you are talking about chat back and forth.

WHO IS THIS?

Nah, the window is open for a year. But I think you owe more because you went past the first six months. Didn't your attorney explain what it means to actually own a patent?

Quote: MathExtremist

Nah, the window is open for a year. But I think you owe more because you went past the first six months. Didn't your attorney explain what it means to actually own a patent?

We stated out with "Legal Zoom" -- a BIG went GREAT! But he split off from Dickerson + Wright and it appears somebody dropped the ball. I have to pay late fees for my other patent as well, I suppose.

Thanks for this, Math.

I think I'll just send this link to Jon Shackelford.