When DI's step away

You have thrown for countless hours at home on your craps table rig.... Perfecting your release, power, and ensuring you keep the dice on axis. You know what numbers your shot favors and you have built a bank roll so that you can come home a winner...

You drive to your local casino and you're ready!!!! You buy-into the game, comfortably positioned around your practice position distance and......... Hours past...... You barely have you shirt when you leave. What happened???

Where does the mind of the DI go when he steps away from the table?? And when you do make 'adjustments' how effective have they been on your visits afterwards?

I think they do the same thing that zillions of card counters at BJ did when they counted perfectly in their New Jersey basement rec room and then find in Vegas its "different". The real world always smacks someone in the face: real money, real smoke, really loud and distracting music, really attractive women, really distracting dealers and floor persons. Suddenly you are close to the felt and that never happened back home.

In the real world, there really are some dice mechanics. People like Leo Hernandez and Archie Karas that can exploit the slide and spin shot... and there are plenty of people that have documented their success. However, I don't believe for one minute that any of the so called dice school folks can influence the dice enough to matter.

Quote: FleaStiff

I think they do the same thing that zillions of card counters at BJ did when they counted perfectly in their New Jersey basement rec room and then find in Vegas its "different". The real world always smacks someone in the face: real money, real smoke, really loud and distracting music, really attractive women, really distracting dealers and floor persons. Suddenly you are close to the felt and that never happened back home.

All of that is baloney. Card counting is not that hard, whether it's in your rec room at home or the casino.

If an aspiring card counter finds himself being distracted or intimidated by the casino environment, he only need educate himself more about the roles of casino employees and casino procedure. It is important to be comfortable in the casino in order to become an advantage player. Learning about the jobs of the dealer, floorman, pit boss, waitresses, etc is the first step to that comfort.

Most card counters fail not because of lack of ability but because of lack of discipline and lack of interest. Once they see that they're basically doing the equivalent of boring, repetitive data-entry work for a not-very competitive salary (EV), they quit.

Or they become bored and make "side plays" not justified by the count.

None of this has to do with lack of skill.

Quote: sodawater

All of that is baloney. Card counting is not that hard, whether it's in your rec room at home or the casino.

If an aspiring card counter finds himself being distracted or intimidated by the casino environment, he only need educate himself more about the roles of casino employees and casino procedure. It is important to be comfortable in the casino in order to become an advantage player. Learning about the jobs of the dealer, floorman, pit boss, waitresses, etc is the first step to that comfort.

Most card counters fail not because of lack of ability but because of lack of discipline and lack of interest. Once they see that they're basically doing the equivalent of boring, repetitive data-entry work for a not-very competitive salary (EV), they quit.

Or they become bored and make "side plays" not justified by the count.

None of this has to do with lack of skill.

Professional AP play is all about what stakes you play and what % edge you have.

If you're playing low limits.. you're probably going to be playing/staying in crapholes and making less money than a burger flipper does.

If you're playing high limits and getting free suites and free steak dinners every night along with 6 figures / year in EV, it's a completely different story.

I know people who are like red/green chip counters.. they spread like 5 - 75 and it seems like one of the most miserable existences. They're basically working a job with no benefits, high variance, and getting paid less than someone who flips burgers at mcdonalds.

Sure, they rarely get backed off because their tiny bets never attract attention, and they get a free buffet once in a while, but I can't imagine trying to grind out a living like that.

With the exceptions of a few people especially guys that have a regular job.....

I've said it before, Anyone with a proper bankroll, discipline, stomach and skill to count cards on a regular basis. Will move on to other better valuable plays or travel for really juicy conditions. Sure they will also just plain count occasionally, but that becomes secondary. Hole carding seems to be the fist next step for many nowadays.

Once you start expanding beyond counting, the boredom goes away.

I don't now of many successful counters that just sit on their ass all day. If that's what you are doing all day, I'm thinking you doing something wrong.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is nothing new to most guys here but it might help someone new who's interested

The actual counting might be easy for you, but you're attention should be focused on more than just the cards. There's so much going on.
Where are the good dealers

Wheres the pit boss, does he notice me? Was that the same guy as last time?

Do I look like I'm a counter?

Is it time to tip?

Should I start a friendly conversation with the dealer? (present myself as a real person)

should I play rated?

what spread can I get away with?

Is it time to leave?

Should I add some cover play?

Is it shift change?

When I first saw the title of this thread I thought it was about the latitude a working girl might entertain when her DI's busy.

The three DIs I've seen shoot I am sure do well. I can't address all of the DI wannabees.

Quote: TheWolf713

You have thrown for countless hours at home on your craps table rig.... Perfecting your release, power, and ensuring you keep the dice on axis. You know what numbers your shot favors and you have built a bank roll so that you can come home a winner...

You drive to your local casino and you're ready!!!! You buy-into the game, comfortably positioned around your practice position distance and......... Hours past...... You barely have you shirt when you leave. What happened???

Where does the mind of the DI go when he steps away from the table?? And when you do make 'adjustments' how effective have they been on your visits afterwards?

I can tell you exactly where it goes. They come to Vegas to take a class or to met up with some other so-called DI's they lose then they run home and do a trip report on a DI board that sells becoming a so-called DI. What happens next is just amazing. They write that they lost and all of the board members pile on to tell they that they are sorry to hear about their lost, but they will get them the next time.

Their great fiction writers now pat them on the back and tell them what they did wrong and if they bet this way or that way they could have made money. Their heroes the ones that sell their classes now tell them they need to take a refresher course, even after they just took one.

They will write about the one so-called DI that got on a good roll and how they should have made money on that roll, only if they didn't already blow their bank roll betting on the other so-called DI's they were with. Now comes the funny part if they took a class they may have paid a hook up fee to go to the tables with their heroes only to lose when their heroes were shooting.

Now days the class that is charging for hook-up fees is calling it the “After Glow” fee.

Then you have the other so-called DI's that write that they won when they actually lost, their big wins always come when no one is around, after everybody else went home. Back when I was working in the casinos I would see this happen way to much. It could have been after work that I stopped to play craps or just watch a game and would have one of my buddies tell me the name of the so-called DI that was losing his butt, only to read his trip report that said that he won big time, at the same casino at the same time he was playing, when I saw him losing!

Ask most players if they won or lost and you get the same old story, they won or they broke even.

The one thing that really sticks out about the so-called DI's is they have heroes that are selling what they are doing. Or are just pathological liars that write some of the best fiction you will ever read about becoming a DI. There is one that nobody has ever met that once was claiming to have an SRR of 28, that is always writing that he takes hundreds of thousands of dollars off the craps tables a year.

If you are a loser and need some one to pat you on your back after that big lost just joined one of the DI boards, where you will find like minded people that will make you feel better about losing!

Then they come back the next time after taking all the advice of heroes to only repeat the same cycle all over again, sure there will be times that they get lucky and they do win, but don't the so-called random rollers do the same thing. Their dice do not stay on axis as these on axis schools want everybody to believe. These schools have never produced one slow motion video of their dice doing so! But there are hundreds of videos that show their dice bouncing all over the place when they hit the tables.

Is there anybody you know in these videos?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2FYrndlrpc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0rAh1ug2Mk&list=UUUJo96xngJwaqh8rIk2whng

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzXc2PXS114&index=12&list=TLPhC1SU9dvTE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1FO4YsUA30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqiptZZotMc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzXc2PXS114&index=12&list=TLPhC1SU9dvTE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k467uPlLn3A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzXc2PXS114&index=12&list=TLPhC1SU9dvTE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkU458iCDiY&list=UUZ0GZph2K4ebWI6FVaoaJdQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hheh7c6J77Y&index=34&list=UUZ0GZph2K4ebWI6FVaoaJdQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOOULZHKNo0&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6NaIs8y_hE&index=37&list=UUZ0GZph2K4ebWI6FVaoaJdQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jej4WNRGyR8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiZf3jbjie0&list=UUfDRf2L1rCEgYtGFlS_z9ag

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS-R8XYUjhs&list=PL29EB7437F6533C12

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68pu1F0D_9g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3_wQN7MELc

This guy found 172 videos on throwing the dice or dice control and put them all in one spot for your viewing pleasure and he surely saved me a lot of work! Just page down on the right side to see all of the videos he found.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MrqyVrQWck&list=PL57YTXgE9UrKJJZsOGpdaFhWAEETRt-rU

Lets not forget the one guy that had the best set-up for dice control, Aaron Hightower who went the extra mile to try to prove that dice control either work or it didn't. I have to give him a high-five for all of the work he put into it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2QS26ppbc8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBJwLtAORa0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXSfu5QDDVA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM3qDV9Lz3Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdTzwChYv0U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni-uMB17x4I

Superrick I am surprised the administrators haven't cited you for spam.

There is a difference between true DIs and people who just set the dice and think they have a controlled throw.

Just knock it off already.

Quote: AlanMendelson

The three DIs I've seen shoot I am sure do well.

Likely because they're not wasting their time here.

Quote: AlanMendelson

I can't address all of the DI wannabees.

You just did.

Quote: AlanMendelson

Superrick I am surprised the administrators haven't cited you for spam.

There is a difference between true DIs and people who just set the dice and think they have a controlled throw.

Just knock it off already.

Alan its not spam if I'm just posting the truth, your dice do not stay on axis and that is all there is to it. If you think becoming a DI works so good why did you give up on playing craps and start playing video poker?

Who can you blame your loses on when your playing video poker? You will not have any so-called random rollers that you could say cost you money betting on them. I guess you just got tired of looking for those elusive so-called DI's, after all you said you have only seen three of them in all the years you had played craps. Noticed that I said had played craps, because in your own words you have giving up playing craps and now your playing video poker.

My, my, my now your going to become the expert on video poker, telling everybody that you can win playing it! My hat goes off to you,... keep up the good work, we will be following you to see when you switch to your next game of choice. When you finally figure out that you can't beat video poker either!

Superrick you don't read very well. I gave up only on chicken feeders. I still shoot. And pretty damn well.

Quote: superrick

I can tell you exactly where it goes. They come to Vegas to take a class or to met up with some other so-called DI's they lose then they run home and do a trip report on a DI board that sells becoming a so-called DI. What happens next is just amazing. They write that they lost and all of the board members pile on to tell they that they are sorry to hear about their lost, but they will get them the next time.

Their great fiction writers now pat them on the back and tell them what they did wrong and if they bet this way or that way they could have made money. Their heroes the ones that sell their classes now tell them they need to take a refresher course, even after they just took one.

They will write about the one so-called DI that got on a good roll and how they should have made money on that roll, only if they didn't already blow their bank roll betting on the other so-called DI's they were with. Now comes the funny part if they took a class they may have paid a hook up fee to go to the tables with their heroes only to lose when their heroes were shooting.

Now days the class that is charging for hook-up fees is calling it the “After Glow” fee.

Then you have the other so-called DI's that write that they won when they actually lost, their big wins always come when no one is around, after everybody else went home. Back when I was working in the casinos I would see this happen way to much. It could have been after work that I stopped to play craps or just watch a game and would have one of my buddies tell me the name of the so-called DI that was losing his butt, only to read his trip report that said that he won big time, at the same casino at the same time he was playing, when I saw him losing!

Ask most players if they won or lost and you get the same old story, they won or they broke even. Actually this needs to be STUCK at the top of every Craps thread.

The one thing that really sticks out about the so-called DI's is they have heroes that are selling what they are doing. Or are just pathological liars that write some of the best fiction you will ever read about becoming a DI. There is one that nobody has ever met that once was claiming to have an SRR of 28, that is always writing that he takes hundreds of thousands of dollars off the craps tables a year.

If you are a loser and need some one to pat you on your back after that big lost just joined one of the DI boards, where you will find like minded people that will make you feel better about losing!

Then they come back the next time after taking all the advice of heroes to only repeat the same cycle all over again, sure there will be times that they get lucky and they do win, but don't the so-called random rollers do the same thing. Their dice do not stay on axis as these on axis schools want everybody to believe. These schools have never produced one slow motion video of their dice doing so! But there are hundreds of videos that show their dice bouncing all over the place when they hit the tables.

Is there anybody you know in these videos?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2FYrndlrpc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0rAh1ug2Mk&list=UUUJo96xngJwaqh8rIk2whng

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzXc2PXS114&index=12&list=TLPhC1SU9dvTE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1FO4YsUA30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqiptZZotMc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzXc2PXS114&index=12&list=TLPhC1SU9dvTE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k467uPlLn3A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzXc2PXS114&index=12&list=TLPhC1SU9dvTE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkU458iCDiY&list=UUZ0GZph2K4ebWI6FVaoaJdQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hheh7c6J77Y&index=34&list=UUZ0GZph2K4ebWI6FVaoaJdQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOOULZHKNo0&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6NaIs8y_hE&index=37&list=UUZ0GZph2K4ebWI6FVaoaJdQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jej4WNRGyR8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiZf3jbjie0&list=UUfDRf2L1rCEgYtGFlS_z9ag

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS-R8XYUjhs&list=PL29EB7437F6533C12

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68pu1F0D_9g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3_wQN7MELc

This guy found 172 videos on throwing the dice or dice control and put them all in one spot for your viewing pleasure and he surely saved me a lot of work! Just page down on the right side to see all of the videos he found.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MrqyVrQWck&list=PL57YTXgE9UrKJJZsOGpdaFhWAEETRt-rU

Lets not forget the one guy that had the best set-up for dice control, Aaron Hightower who went the extra mile to try to prove that dice control either work or it didn't. I have to give him a high-five for all of the work he put into it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2QS26ppbc8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBJwLtAORa0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXSfu5QDDVA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM3qDV9Lz3Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdTzwChYv0U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni-uMB17x4I

Quote: AlanMendelson

Superrick I am surprised the administrators haven't cited you for spam.

There is a difference between true DIs and people who just set the dice and think they have a controlled throw.

Just knock it off already.

If dice inflluence or dice control, whatever you want to call it, worked, then Aaron Hightower would not need a job. And that's my advice to all you DI's. Don't give up your day jobs.

Quote: AlanMendelson

The three DIs I've seen shoot I am sure do well. .

That's because they all have good jobs, I'm willing to bet they have no better chance winning at craps than a random roller who makes good bets.

Quote: mickeycrimm

If dice inflluence or dice control, whatever you want to call it, worked, then Aaron Hightower would not need a job. And that's my advice to all you DI's. Don't give up your day job.

Don't degrade the conversation with personal attacks. The only thing that I'd like to know is why so many of you can't define DI correctly.

Quote: AlanMendelson

Don't degrade the conversation with personal attacks. The only thing that I'd like to know is why so many of you can't define DI correctly.

Alan, why don't you jump into the Accumulator Slots thread and explain to everyone here like you explained to me on your forum that my science on machines is bad science....and how I tried to pull a fast one on you. You've got everyone who is anyone in the gambling world on this forum, from the Wiz on down, professional gamblers, slot game designers, degree'd mathematicians to explain it to. See if you can get any of them to agree with you that I don't know what I'm talking about. Put up or shut up.

Quote: mickeycrimm

If dice inflluence or dice control, whatever you want to call it, worked, then Aaron Hightower would not need a job. And that's my advice to all you DI's. Don't give up your day job.

NO Mickey AH didn't have what most DI's consider a proper shot, It bounced way to much off the back wall. Way out of the acceptable "ZONE" If there's the slightest possibly of DI its not with his shot. He needed a softer touch if he ever had a chance IMO.

Quote: AlanMendelson

Don't degrade the conversation with personal attacks.

I was going to chime in on another of mc's silly Montana invitations to Montana in the other thread about someone claiming to have won hundreds of thousands at the bj tables - only to have a statistically hard-to-believe income last year by comparison - but common sense got the better of me.

Don't give up yours, mc... for the one you never had.

Quote: mickeycrimm

... like you explained to me on your forum that my science on machines is bad science.

Not sure that you "want to go there".

Quote: Kerkebet

Not sure that you "want to go there".

Oh, yes, I do. When I explained to Alan, on his forum, how advantage plays on slot machines work, he told me and his followers that it was "bad science" then he banned me from his forum and told his followers that I was trying to pull a fast one on him. He has a much biigger and much more learned audience here on WoV to explain to how my science on machines is "bad science" and how I'm pulling a fast one on him.

Alan is certainly a well educated person and a successfull businessman. But when it comes to gambling he has a screw loose.

Quote: AlanMendelson

Don't degrade the conversation with personal attacks. The only thing that I'd like to know is why so many of you can't define DI correctly.

Alan you wouldn't know a DI if the guy bit you when you were at the table with him.

Your definition of a DI doesn't hold water, nor does it cover the full spectrum of DI's.
You said you never met one, so how can you define one! Get over it and go back to playing video poker. Or come up with a few videos that show dice staying on axis!

Think about this, if you had a school and you were teaching on axis shooting and your claim to fame is that your dice stay on axis,...Why is it that none of these schools have produced a slow motion video of their dice doing that?

I put up all of those videos of slow motion shots and they all do the same thing and that is bounce all over the place when the dice hit the tables. Your only answer was to call it spam, hoping to get it taking down.

So if your such a good shot why did you give up playing craps Alan,..Inquiring minds want to know! I find empty tables all the time, why can't you?

Quote: superrick

Alan you wouldn't know a DI if the guy bit you when you were at the table with him.

Your definition of a DI doesn't hold water, nor does it cover the full spectrum of DI's.
You said you never met one, so how can you define one! Get over it and go back to playing video poker. Or come up with a few videos that show dice staying on axis!

Think about this, if you had a school and you were teaching on axis shooting and your claim to fame is that your dice stay on axis,...Why is it that none of these schools have produced a slow motion video of their dice doing that?

I put up all of those videos of slow motion shots and they all do the same thing and that is bounce all over the place when the dice hit the tables. Your only answer was to call it spam, hoping to get it taking down.

So if your such a good shot why did you give up playing craps Alan,..Inquiring minds want to know! I find empty tables all the time, why can't you?

I have read Alan's description of a DI shot and it is spot on.

Quote: Kerkebet

I was going to chime in on another of mc's silly Montana invitations to Montana in the other thread about someone claiming to have won hundreds of thousands at the bj tables - only to have a statistically hard-to-believe income last year by comparison - but common sense got the better of me.

Don't give up yours, mc... for the one you never had.

So you are saying you got an invite to Big Sky country? You might want to take your own shovel.

You gotta be a pretty tough sob if your gonna mess with Robert Knievel in Billings.

Quote: AxelWolf

I have read Alan's description of a DI shot and it is spot on.

The your just one more guy that doesn't know anything about DI's!

Quote: petroglyph

So you are saying you got an invite to Big Sky country? You might want to take your own shovel.

You gotta be a pretty tough sob if your gonna mess with Robert Knievel in Billings.

Actually, Bobbie Knievel is from and is buried in Butte. The towns most famous son. You wouldn't believe all the big names that showed up for his funeral. Evel Knievel Days still goes strong every summer in Butte. I'm down that way all the time. St. Paddys Day is another big Butte barn burner.

Quote: mickeycrimm

Actually, Bobbie Knievel is from and is buried in Butte. The towns most famous son. You wouldn't believe all the big names that showed up for his funeral. Evel Knievel Days still goes strong every summer in Butte. I'm down that way all the time. St. Paddys Day is another big Butte barn burner.

Didn't he own a bar in Billings? I was sitting in either Billings or Great Falls in some bar and was advised that "if I didn't want to fight" not to look like I did.

They would fight over anything, sort of what I here Oz, is like. Just sort of a pastime, must have been the shortage of women, idk. That be because the women have the same disease's the sheep have?

I worked in Harloton [sp] and two dot, it you can find them. I worked on the 500 line from Great Falls to K-Falls Cali. Good times. It is currently 72* on our patio, hows yours?

I never saw the thread where you were inviting everyone up, I thought it was weird Kerke got n invite and I didn't. I thought I would help him by telling him to bring something to dig with.

Quote: petroglyph

You might want to take your own shovel. You gotta be a pretty tough sob if your gonna mess with Robert Knievel in Billings.

Do you want to dig him up; or, are you asking me to?

Quote: mickeycrimm

Oh, yes, I do. When I explained to Alan, on his forum, how advantage plays on slot machines work, he told me and his followers that it was "bad science" then he banned me from his forum and told his followers that I was trying to pull a fast one on him.

Well, but it's bad form to tell the guy off - not to mention also the new owner(s) of this board over there - without definitive proof that it wasn't bad science specifically. Furthermore, saying that the Wizard et al are all for it specifically may have been putting words in their mouths.

The Wizard isn't exactly the best reference because he was "passing the hat" a while back. I can see how not going the AP route in practice may be preferable to the income from other, more-ostensive activities, but I can't see how "passing the hat" would be preferable to going the AP route in practice were that so easy for someone as in the know.

Quote: mickeycrimm

He has a much bigger and much more learned audience here on WoV to explain to how my science on machines is "bad science" and how I'm pulling a fast one on him.

I wonder.

Quote: mickeycrimm

Alan is certainly a well educated person and a successful businessman. But when it comes to gambling, he has a screw loose.

Who knows. At least he appears to be honest with the truths he does know.

Quote: petroglyph

I was sitting in either Billings or Great Falls in some bar and was advised that "if I didn't want to fight" not to look like I did.

Good grief.

Quote: petroglyph

I never saw the thread where you were inviting everyone up, I thought it was weird Kerke got n invite and I didn't. I thought I would help him by telling him to bring something to dig with.

I wasn't invited. Mc invited the OP of https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/blackjack/20446-my-very-humbling-2014-bj-results/2/#post419217 . And Alan, before Alan banned him. (And me, and Singer.)

Quote: AlanMendelson

The three DIs I've seen shoot I am sure do well. I can't address all of the DI wannabees.

So then, these three Unknown Bonemen are all true DIs, and they make good money shooting craps, i.e. you are *sure* they do well?

What research did you do to reach this conclusion?

What makes you so *sure*?

That's a bold statement, Alan.

You watched them roll for part of a session, obviously, but what else?

You want us to believe you are an Oracle of sorts, the All Seeing, All Knowing Expert: surely you have some empirical data to impart to us in support of your bald-faced claims?

Or is yours just a poorly founded, snap-judgment opinion based on presumption, superstition and lazy investigative skills?

Quote: petroglyph

Didn't he own a bar in Billings? I was sitting in either Billings or Great Falls in some bar and was advised that "if I didn't want to fight" not to look like I did.

They would fight over anything, sort of what I here Oz, is like. Just sort of a pastime, must have been the shortage of women, idk. That be because the women have the same disease's the sheep have?

I worked in Harloton [sp] and two dot, it you can find them. I worked on the 500 line from Great Falls to K-Falls Cali. Good times. It is currently 72* on our patio, hows yours?

I never saw the thread where you were inviting everyone up, I thought it was weird Kerke got n invite and I didn't. I thought I would help him by telling him to bring something to dig with.

I'm out drinking tonight. Just walked back over to check my email. Every WoV'er is invited to meet me in Montana. You won't run into a bigshot. I'm a pretty simple person. I've had so many invites to meet the best gamblers in the world to meet them in Las Vegas. Those Vegas lights don't look bright and shiny to me anymore. I had just got to thinking. If they would invite me, then maybe I should invite them. Any of you WoV'ers who take a Montana vacation I would be glad to meet up with you. Depending on how I feel, and with your promise that you are not going to stay here, I might even show you how to make your Montana vacation a profitable one.

This would be my most laughable moment. A moment I get to laugh my ass off. You are a babe in the woods. If you come here and meet me. ...and I march you into a casino and tell you "there's money top be made here" and nothing else. I'm going to get to laugh my ass off while you walk around punching up games and trying to figure out where the money is. Its going to be a hilarious moment. But don't worry folks, I'll just laugh for a little, then point you in the right direction.

Quote: mickeycrimm

It's going to be a hilarious moment. But don't worry folks, I'll just laugh for a little, then point you in the right direction.

Still doesn't make a lot of sense.

On Alan's board, you stated that your tricks work only in the Montana market. And, that you would show Alan, but no one else. Here, where the people in the know are in Vegas, Vegas no longer appeals to you.

I'm seeing a lot of internet posting by a drunk, but nothing concrete. All of which lets me to my so-called ignorance, I suppose.

Hilarious moment, maybe.