MrV
MrV
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
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December 22nd, 2014 at 4:04:56 PM permalink
Alan, I suspect you just got tired of losing your shirt to the boys and girls in the Caesars craps pit.

Your newfound love for VP is interesting.

Consider: Why do most LV gamblers play VP as their main game?

Is it because it's theoretically beatable, or because it is so terribly addictive?

Reviewing your trip reports on your board, you still spend A LOT of time gambling, mostly at Rincon, which is fine: just don't preach to others about the "correct" way to play craps, or any other game: you lack the necessary qualifications: I believe you'd concede that you never got good at it, so you gave up.
"What, me worry?"
dicesitter
dicesitter
Joined: Jan 17, 2013
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December 22nd, 2014 at 9:00:55 PM permalink
EXACTLY RIGHT



That is the thing no one in the dice setting community will ever talk about..... influence the wrong way.

For me it has always made sense that dice influencing could be a double edged sword.... if you can
get good enough to throw more 6's or 8's than normal percentages dictate, there is no reason to assume
if you are off a tad you cant throw more 7's. In fact I think it is a certainty.

My reasoning is this... lets say your are an on access player, but that I mean you think you can keep dice
on access the entire throw ( we know that cant be done) but just assume you think an on axis finish is
the same. If you use a hard way set lets say 5/3 5/3 and your on a table where you have to throw 7 feet.
If one of your dice make a 1/4 turn back and the other 1/4 turn forward you have a 7, the other way a 7.
If you think that getting a hard 10 is then a perfect roll, the closer you are to perfect on
every roll, the closer to a 7 you are..... on every roll.

I think, and this is just my opinion, that a person that can influence the dice fairly well, can actually
throw more 7's than a random guy... if you are off a tad...

a random guy just throws and he is as close to a 7 on any roll as he is on any other roll.

If I try to throw a toss which I want to keep on access, I can tell you I can throw more 3/4 4/3
than you can believe, so I quit trying....I can be off a tad far more than I can get a perfect roll.

that is just my experience.

dicesetter
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
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December 22nd, 2014 at 11:51:00 PM permalink
Face let me ask you a simple question: do you try to hit the goal when you do shoot? Or do you randomly slap at the puck not caring where it goes?

I am sure your teammates want you to aim for the goal or pass to another teammate for an assist.

It is similar in craps. If you are the shooter try your best to win. If you can't get a good shot -- pass.

MrV I have never claimed to be a DI but I try. It doesn't hurt to try.

Is there anyone who is not a DI who can claim to be a consistent winner at craps? If there isn't such a consistent winner why would you criticize snyone who tries to be a DI?
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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December 23rd, 2014 at 12:42:52 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

If you don't try to influence dice then you shouldn't bother with correct strategy in blackjack or video poker or any other hame because the goal of craps is to hit the numbers that make you win.

THE GOAL OF CRAPS IS NOT TO LOSE. SO YOU MUST TRY TO INFLUENCE. And if you don't agree don't play.

That's a silly comparison. It's proven VP & BJ's % is based on correct holds and strategy.

There's no different in a random roller and a DI. The best way to win in craps is by betting the best percentages.

If you believe you can influence the dice then I guess you should try. Just like if you believe in Singer's garbage you should try that as well. Singer is no more foolish than a DI.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
MrV
MrV
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December 23rd, 2014 at 8:05:31 AM permalink
Quote:

Is there anyone who is not a DI who can claim to be a consistent winner at craps? If there isn't such a consistent winner why would you criticize snyone who tries to be a DI?



Guys can go on an epic tear in the short to medium run, like Archie Karas did at Binions, but in the long run the math favors the house.

I don't criticize you for your belief in bone arranging, just as I don't criticize a five year old for fervently believing in Santa Claus; after all, it is part of being human to employ superstition to try and quell the perceived boogeymen of this world.

I do however criticize you for saying that people who don't try DI should not play craps.

Who the heck are you to make such a sweeping, judgmental statement?
"What, me worry?"
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
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December 23rd, 2014 at 8:40:36 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

That's a silly comparison. It's proven VP & BJ's % is based on correct holds and strategy.

There's no different in a random roller and a DI. The best way to win in craps is by betting the best percentages.

If you believe you can influence the dice then I guess you should try. Just like if you believe in Singer's garbage you should try that as well. Singer is no more foolish than a DI.



This is the same argument the "anti-DI" crowd always makes: there is no proof.

My point is there doesn't have to be proof and it doesn't hurt to try. You say craps is a random game and if a DI throw isonly random what's the harm?

SET ON!!!
superrick
superrick
Joined: Jul 14, 2010
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December 23rd, 2014 at 11:26:27 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

This is the same argument the "anti-DI" crowd always makes: there is no proof.

My point is there doesn't have to be proof and it doesn't hurt to try. You say craps is a random game and if a DI throw isonly random what's the harm?

SET ON!!!


So Alan you asked a very good question and maybe you can also answer it when you said whats the harm!
From your below quotes you evidently stopped playing craps, the harm is that you would lose money and the way we all can look at it,...is you had to stop and switched to video poker, because you were losing!
Quote: AlanMendelson


And that is THE MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION: WHY NOT TRY?
If you don't try you don't stand a chance of beating a negative expectation game. If you don't try YOU SHOULD NOT PLAY.


This below quote really got me, so you are now playing video poker, I'm sure Ahigh would love to know that one!
Quote: AlanMendelson

Which is why I now rarely play craps (switched to video poker) and for the most part I won't play with shooters who don't TRY to influence the dice.


Please let us know how your video poker is going, why don't you take a class off of Bob Dancer I understand that there is a class for everything that has to do with gambling.
http://www.bobdancer.com/ and I'm sure there are plenty of books on video poker that you can buy. I took a different approach so my wife would not play the slot machines, I bought her a video poker machine so she would see that she didn't stand a chance of winning! Guess what it worked wonders and she stays out of the casinos here in Vegas, and she knows how to play the so-called perfect strategy. Her video poker machine proved to her she would still be a loser. Maybe you should take a lesson from her and just buy a video poker machine to see that you can't beat them!
Note, all my post start with this is just my opinion...! You do good brada ..! superrick Winning comes from knowledge and skill when your betting and not reading fiction http://procraps4u2.myfanforum.org/index.php ...
dicesitter
dicesitter
Joined: Jan 17, 2013
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December 23rd, 2014 at 12:31:03 PM permalink
maybe cooking...

Now see there is a sport, I have 40 people coming over xmas eve and have to feed them....stuffed beef tenderloin, stuffed
port tenderloin, hot turkey , 4 pounds of deep fried schrimp, mac and cheese and raspberry bread pudding with vamilla
sauce.

I made up raffle tickets 3 for $5 for all the guests, you cant win, but that is no different than most games in a casino and
it gets some of my cost back, I given the winner a box of home made cookies ( which I would have given them anyway.

Life is tuff, you need to look out for the bucks. I don't offer any classes yet on before dinner raffle games.... maybe
next year.

dicesetter

merry Christmas to all the seekers of craps secrets
MrV
MrV
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December 23rd, 2014 at 12:42:34 PM permalink
I see that Alan started a DI thread on his board; he posts: "Critics say the notion of dice influencing absurd. What is absurd is not trying to influence the dice when the casino hands them to you."

So how, exactly, are we supposed to try to influence the dice when the casino hands them to us?

After all, they're inanimate objects, and like the mentally challenged, the weak, the lame, and the superstitious they are impervious to argument.

I can lecture dem bones til the cows come home: will that do it, Alan?

I can safely say that compared to most people I am a good influence, but that has meant nothing at the craps table; the dice never obey me.

How do YOU influence the disobedient dice?

Oh, that's right: you don't.

So what is more absurd: an atheist who says "I believe that there is no god, because there is no proof of god," or a priest who preaches "blessed are the influencers, for god has set the craps table for them in heaven?"
"What, me worry?"
Kerkebet
Kerkebet
Joined: Oct 2, 2014
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December 23rd, 2014 at 2:00:58 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

How do YOU influence the disobedient dice?


Don't fixate on them. Focus on what you can change.
Nonsense is a very hard thing to keep up. Just ask the Wizard and company.

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