What fun is playing the Darkside?
Quote: NareedOne time playing the don't I shot three 11s in a row in the come out <sigh>. Let me tell you, that can be quite demoralizing.
I have to admit it is also demoralizing to have avoided the losing streaks, but still lose money by losing just a few, since the payoff is short of the amount bet. You roughly need to win 2 out of 3 after the point is set. But I seem to take it better just not experiencing one loss after another on the points.
A losing streak after the point is set is true murder on the darkside. But that is when you know you have to walk away sure enough.
Quote: TiltpoulI should clarify... I buy-in for 200, with the intent of losing 100. I play 5 on the pass line, with 10 odds on the 5,6,8,9 and 5 on the 4,10. Same with the come bets. I don't start pressing until I'm into positive territory on my bets.
Funny how you can play with someone and still not notice how he was betting. But that explains why you seemed surprised the time I placed 3X odds ($15) on a 6 or 8 point, as usually I put up much less in odds.
Really, next year we should arrange to meet the joker's Wild (yes, Tim, I do recall you proposed it) if only so we can bet 10X on a $1 pass line bet. That would be fun by itself.
Quote: NareedReally, next year we should arrange to meet the joker's Wild (yes, Tim, I do recall you proposed it) if only so we can bet 10X on a $1 pass line bet. That would be fun by itself.
I had a good run there (though not great). I got up to 10x odds with a $3 come bet. I still do the same odds, just less on the wins (and losses) on the come bets for 11s and craps and the eventual 7-out. I was CLEARLY the high roller on the table, as most were happy with 30 dollar wins; I think I walked up about 150-180.
Quote: TiltpoulI had a good run there (though not great). I got up to 10x odds with a $3 come bet. I still do the same odds, just less on the wins (and losses) on the come bets for 11s and craps and the eventual 7-out. I was CLEARLY the high roller on the table, as most were happy with 30 dollar wins; I think I walked up about 150-180.
I don't think I've ever been the high roller anywhere. so that, to would be a pleasant novelty.
I do like hunting for $3 tables Downtown so I can put play about the same money in odds with a lower pass line bet, meaning a lower risk overall. Had the table at ElCo been $3 the day of WoVCon ][, though, I might have tried a full odds bet ona 6 or 8. Alas, it was $5.
I forget what the odds limit was at Arizona Charlie's Boulder when I played there with Doc the next day, btu we were getting kileld there, too. So I dind't take advantage of the $2 minimum bet...
Quote: NareedFunny how you can play with someone and still not notice how he was betting. But that explains why you seemed surprised the time I placed 3X odds ($15) on a 6 or 8 point, as usually I put up much less in odds.
Really, next year we should arrange to meet the joker's Wild (yes, Tim, I do recall you proposed it) if only so we can bet 10X on a $1 pass line bet. That would be fun by itself.
I guess...as I recall only Doc and I were playing larger than table minimum with 1x/2x odds...(I had $5 + $20 odds, and a $12 6 & 8, cuz they charge vig up front on the buy bets)
Quote: odiousgambitI have to admit it is also demoralizing to have avoided the losing streaks, but still lose money by losing just a few, since the payoff is short of the amount bet.
Related to that, I often avoid the don't becasue you need to lay more money on the odds. I know the house edge on the odds bet, which is the "real" cost of a bet, is the same as in the do: namely zero. But it does require a bigger bankroll.
Quote: TIMSPEEDI guess...as I recall only Doc and I were playing larger than table minimum with 1x/2x odds...(I had $5 + $20 odds, and a $12 6 & 8, cuz they charge vig up front on the buy bets)
I tend to focus on my bets. Besides, as no doubt you could tell, I have little experience yet in regualr craps tables. Prior to thsi trip, 95% of my craps play had been in Raid Craps. That's why I kept bugging the rest of you to tell me how much I needed to put up in odds. That and my lousy memory for numbers and all things mathematical ;)
Quote: TIMSPEED...as I recall only Doc and I were playing larger than table minimum with 1x/2x odds...(I had $5 + $20 odds, and a $12 6 & 8, cuz they charge vig up front on the buy bets)
If you saw me playing much more than table minimums and short odds, you probably should schedule a visit to your optometrist. I don't remember just what I was betting, but I doubt I got very high. Maybe 3x odds, a minimal 6/8, and maybe some come bets with short odds. If I'm playing and realize I have pushed things to $100 total on the table, I suddenly get a feeling I have screwed something up my "strategy". I have a well-established reputation as a low roller to protect.
Now on the topic of this thread, I won't say that I would never play the dark side, just that it hasn't yet happened. I understand the mathematically better HE, but the difference is so small it just doesn't motivate me.
Quote: DocIf you saw me playing much more than table minimums and short odds, you probably should schedule a visit to your optometrist. I don't remember just what I was betting, but I doubt I got very high.
I coudl have swore you were betting 3x and 2 unit place bets...
Quote: TIMSPEEDI coudl have swore you were betting 3x and 2 unit place bets...
That's plausible. If I'm not short in the rack, I'll bet 3x on points of 6 or 8, sometimes even a little more. Having 2 unit place bets typically results from a sequence where I have placed single units on both 6 and 8 -- then one of those becomes the point and I have that place bet moved to press the other. If a non-6/8 point is established later, I would feel as if I am really shouting what a low roller I am if I were to have them split the place bet back apart. Since getting to that situation means that the shooter has already hit a couple of points, I may have been willing to go as high as 2 units on both 6 and 8. The way I typically wind up overextending is not from place bets but from getting too many of the numbers covered with come bets and odds. Sometimes that makes me some money, but I always shudder at the crash that comes with a 7.
Quote: QuadDeucesAgain, it would be wonderful to be at a table full of dont's. Maybe that should be a wovcon thing. It'd be interesting to see the pit reaction to a table full of don'ts playing quarters with full odds.
I'm not sure about a table full, but I have been at a table with at least 3 people who were all playing the dark side. It happened once about 3 or 4 in the morning at the Flamingo, there was some dead-drunk guy in his 40s who could never remember what denomination to lay odds in based on the point, and had to ask me or the dealers after every single one (he wasn't laying max, so he couldn't just do 6x). Now I can't remember if I walked up to the table and he was already playing the dark side, or if I swapped him over, but anyway I rolled for probably an hour, both of us playing dark side, and the dice always passed back to me. We had different people join in here and there on the don'ts, always passing the dice back to me, I don't remember if we ever got more than 3 people but there were at least that many at one point. The pit boss said something like "man, I wish I could take a picture of the layout right now!" with only dark side bets and no light side. We cleaned up on that session, I think I was betting $10/$60 odds and won about 700 bucks. But for that trip I lost my $1000 bankroll, so it didn't help.
I wish our Fearless Leader would clarify his position on this issue. I understand it to be that "the best bet for your money" means be on the Don't Side at all times simply because it is the lowest house edge. In other words, the rule is simply: obey the math.Quote: Nareedsome of our esteemed members are inherently incapable of betting the don't.
I wonder however whether this is actually his practice or not. I am often shooting "From the Don't, Hoping They Won't" but many times a dealer will greet a newcomer to the table with "choppy but favoring Right Bettors". Such past history (or impressions of past history) of course provide no guarantee of continued good fortune for those on the Pass Line. I just wonder if carrying things out to a few decimal places should really make the difference when in effect being a Right or a Wrong Bettor is, in effect, a toss-up. With that toss-up actually comparing house edge but never taking into consideration the higher bankroll required in order to "Do Wrong, the Right Way" (maximum odds).
Its sort of like these fifty million to one lottery things... its such a slight chance, it ain't worth the quibble.
Quote: FleaStiffI wonder however whether this is actually his practice or not.
According to the video he made, check it at 2:50, he indeed wants that fraction of a percentage of difference. He brushes off Dan's reaction, which also might be the reaction of most of us here.
I too often go darkside, but for different reasons than our esteemed leader gives.
Quote: scireI often play the "Don't" (with a Yo back up cover) and if I dodge the Seven on the Come out then I get into playing the inside #'s for a few hits then take them down and wait for the seven. Now if the seven comes right back(as it often does) my Place bets are covered... ie $100.00 Don't.. $7dollar YO --.then place the 5,6,8,,9 - $15-$24-$24-$15. If a 5 or nine becomes the point I stay off the place there and pick up the 4 or 10 for one hit only. Any outside #'s come down right after a first hit. I tend to let the 6-8 stay for a couple of hits but do reduce to $12-$12 from the $24-$24. As far as "fun" .....the object is to win$$ and the seven will come. For those with higher bankrolls this is an excellent "system". But you've gotta pull down those place bets after a hit or two. I'm always trying to "hedge" any and all bets any way I can. Also a small field bet on the Come out is good too just for... "fun".
You will lose $100 to the come out roll 7. How do you avoid that? When you do lose that $100, how do you recover?
Moral of the story is you can make the right bet at what seems to be the right time and you'll still lose. My opinion is ....no matter who tells you what about edges and odds it is always for the very long run and most likely will never apply for any given night or day of series of playing.
I have nothing to do with John Patrick but I highly recommend his Advance Craps book. You'll begin to understand much after reading it BESIDES ODDS.
Mathmatically the Wizard is right on. I have done well playing the Darkside but I choose to always hedge my bets as wisely as i can at any given point in time cause you just can't depend on the "math" to WIN for you! Even when you play well the best thing to do is get away for a time after a few losses. Most of the time people are willing to lose to much and thus lose their desire to play. It's all about timing and the trend. Unfortunately we all wantt to "Play" and when the tables are crowded we get sucked in. Ever wonder why ALL the craps tables are never always going? The casino wants you to stay at a crowded table and not move around to another cause they know we have to "accept" whatever trend is going down at that moment in time and it could be a choppy table. If you lose your slot at the table it might take too long for you to get back in so you keep playing and keep losing and losing. That is what the casino wants.
Quote: scireNareed,,,,Why critisize even a little bit? Most of all someone who is trying to educate folks on math/games. Only the dice can"tell" the outcome for any given series. The math is for thousands & even millions of rolls/series of play. No one can say at any given point who is going to win or lose on any given "hours of play". I have won and lost playing both sides. A little story will explain. One nght I was playing the don;t and a shooter put up a ten point. I had been playing for a while and points were being made... so...I placed odds againts the 10 on my don't pass bet. The shooter hit several #'s thenhit the 10!!. Realizing that I was going the wrong way at that point in time (wrong trend) I stayed off this shooter for his next come out which was another10!!!!! I quickly decided to lay the 10 for $500.00 after he -----PUT UP A 3RD POINT 10!! knowing the odds of hitting 3 tens in a row was gigantic. The shooter hit a few more numbers and then POW he hit the third TEN!!! A bad beat for me. It depressed me so much that I didn't play for quite some time after that.
Moral of the story is you can make the right bet at what seems to be the right time and you'll still lose. My opinion is ....no matter who tells you what about edges and odds it is always for the very long run and most likely will never apply for any given night or day of series of playing.
I have nothing to do with John Patrick but I highly recommend his Advance Craps book. You'll begin to understand much after reading it BESIDES ODDS.
Mathmatically the Wizard is right on. I have done well playing the Darkside but I choose to always hedge my bets as wisely as i can at any given point in time cause you just can't depend on the "math" to WIN for you! Even when you play well the best thing to do is get away for a time after a few losses. Most of the time people are willing to lose to much and thus lose their desire to play. It's all about timing and the trend. Unfortunately we all wantt to "Play" and when the tables are crowded we get sucked in. Ever wonder why ALL the craps tables are never always going? The casino wants you to stay at a crowded table and not move around to another cause they know we have to "accept" whatever trend is going down at that moment in time and it could be a choppy table. If you lose your slot at the table it might take too long for you to get back in so you keep playing and keep losing and losing. That is what the casino wants.
GOLD!!!
A lot of folks just won't play the field but I am always watching "shows" of the Field #'s. If I see no show for 3 or four rolls I jump on the field and if I lose I double or triple till it hits. The field shows often enough to give a plus. The Field is a good bet to use when things get choppy.
An important point I would like to make is if one cannot afford (or doesn't like losing) to double up or triple up and LEAVE if it doesn't work than you shouldn't be in a casino. I'm not trying to be harsh just sensible. I've seen ruin at the tables and it's never fun. Try the don't & place on a free site and see how you like it first. Use the field when you see it hasn't shown after two rolls. You might like it. Some think it's a sissy bet _NO WAY. Also the worst thing a person can do if serious about trying to win is to play with friends. The commaradery (sic) keeps you there till your broke.
*I have lost to many times playing the right side with following Come bets to prefer my play. I like keeping the Seven in my camp. Also, If a 6 or 8 becomes the point I sometimes hedge off the Don't pass bet with a place on the point $48-$54 if I am not doing so well and hope for a few extra hits on the other places along with watching the Field shows.
When it comes to risk some people view that final decimal place as more important than other factors ... they must get tired of ordering a chopped liver sandwich all the time simply because its more calories per ounce than anything else.
Quote: FleaStiffNo one reads a restaurant menu with a view toward which item is the greatest bargain. Its which item is of most interest to them.
When it comes to risk some people view that final decimal place as more important than other factors ... they must get tired of ordering a chopped liver sandwich all the time simply because its more calories per ounce than anything else.
I don't think that's the case with all of us Wrong Way players. Given the low difference in HE, I mainly play because I find it hilarious that I am betting against myself. I play the wrong way even when others are at the table, though, mainly because that is just the way I always bet. Besides, people seem to take enjoyment in giving me playful razz every time a point is made, so they get to have some fun with that. I've won four or five decisions in a row (which means they have lost) so they're upset about losing 4-5 in a row, then the point gets made and they are back to being happy giving me crap about playing the Wrong Way. That's cool. It usually takes longer for spirits to improve after losing five in a row.
Rule #1 - wait until there are 3 points in a row. 4 in a row is fairly uncommon.
Rule #2 - if there are 4 points in a row, be able to triple your initial Don't bet.
Rule #3 - if there are 5 points in a row, be able to triple your 2nd Don't bet.
Where this gets dicey, of course, is that if you're losing on 6 & 8 and winning on 4 and 10.
Set #1 (for a possible 4th Point)
$10, 60 odds, max win - 10 from the point, $60 for odds - $70 bet, $40 worst case if win, -$70 if lose
IF LOSE
Set #2 (for a possible 5th Point)
$30 Don't, $180 odds, max win will be $180 if win, -$210 if lose, worst win = $120, either at -$280 now or +50
IF LOSE
Set #3 (for a possible 6th Point)
$100 Don't, $600 odds, max win of $600, max loss, 700, worst case win = $400 and you're either up $120 or down $680.
If you lose here - go home unless you're prepared to keep pushing it but this means you need a $1,500 bankroll to comfortably bet against 7 points in a row.
Where you can get burned is seeing a few people point 4x... rare, but it's happened to me.
The other variable is if 7 is thrown on the come-out... the Wizard says "never hedge" but when I'm put'n $100 on the Don't, putting $25 on any red is something I choose to do because even if I'm wrong 4x in a row - on max bets if they do 7-out on the 6th roll, I'm basically even and it was quite a thrill and that's what I'm gambling for.
~F's H
Hey, its fun (in a quiet way) DP with max odds or 6x the Don't Line, Point established, make 1 DC win/lose/point with odds. Maybe the occasional 11-12 on Come-Out.
Sip your drink, check out the scenery.
Quote: Mission146Given the low difference in HE, I mainly play because I find it hilarious that I am betting against myself. I play the wrong way even when others are at the table, though, mainly because that is just the way I always bet.
I admit that the difference in House Edge between Right Bettors and Wrong Bettors is indeed slight. One tip, One Cocktail and One moments inattention to an error can wipe out any such "difference".
Its just that Our Fearless Leader seems to always bet the Don'ts based solely on that "nth" decimal place without regard to anything else including recent massive wins for Right Bettors.
The only time i ever play the darkside is when the table has been bad for
a number of shooters....... so iplace a dont bet and sure as hell he makes a point,
so i make a pass line and sure as hell he does not make two points.
Once the table has made me look stupid, sometimes it will have pity on us the
rest of the night.
dicesetter
Quote: 100xOddsfor me, the fun for playing the Rightside is pressing the bets.
but w/Dark, you cant do that. Once a 7 comes, you win but all the bets are taken down. There's no riding the Hot Roll.
So what do you find fun in playing the Darkside?
I remember back in the day a well dressed gentleman walked up to the table and signed a mark for $2500 in chips. I remember him clear to this day because before he even got the mark, he told the dealer "$500 Don't pass line" it was too funny because before he even got the mark, the shooter had 7'd out and he got paid $500 to his rack and rebetting the $500 on the don't. After a few numbers were rolled. I recalled him speaking out loud, "I think I'll play stupid" and placed the 6/8 for $480. he did manage to lose the 6/8 bet but again won on the Don't pass line with $500.
Seeing that the guy was dressed in pretty fine attire and approval for his mark granted him an extra $2000.00 in his rack along with the first $500 and the $500 he just made from the DP line. He eventually lost all his dark side bets due to a good roller making points.
Moral of the story is to each his own. If your having a "Don't Day" then it shouldn't be hard to figure out what your intentions will be at that given time. For me, I've had many dark days that never made it to home plate, enough for me to say that this is all I want to do. Instead I've learned to Scope out some key shooters and go with the flow or just bet whatever the happy people are betting. It works.
But when will I learn, after 30 years in my gambling playing craps, I'm still not retired, but I've made a few bucks and many friends along the way. :)
maybe not "per shooter" but for many cold shooters in a row.Quote: 100xOddsfor me, the fun for playing the Rightside is pressing the bets.
but w/Dark, you cant do that.
Sure you can
and it happens quite often
The high roller dark side players Lay the numbers.
they do not fool around with don't pass and don't come bets.
Win big or go home. and they pick their spots, because they can.
I have seen hours go by with the 6&8 never repeating before a 7.
Lay bettors know this happens
So they Lay the 6&8, they only lose twice, maybe on one number.
when Lay bets are HOT, they are HOT.
I would even say when Lay bets are HOT they are HOTTER than any right way bet that is HOT.
(this has to do with the arcsine law)
a high roller Lay bettor does not care about the house edge,
just winning percentages over 70% will do just fine.
I have paid many Lays over $10,000 that progressed from betting and winning smaller amounts
keep pressing on a win
next shooter
no sweat
Quote: Mission146I don't play the dark side anymore, switched a few months after that post, in fact.
After 1.5 years of play & 30+ sessions, I've seen about 4 or 5 dark players; every one went out broke. Also, when a dark player plays, it's been no big deal. Maybe after another 30+ sessions, I'll have to change my mind. Maybe.
Quote: foolshopeI've started to play the Don'ts but only at selected times.
Rule #1 - wait until there are 3 points in a row. 4 in a row is fairly uncommon.
Rule #2 - if there are 4 points in a row, be able to triple your initial Don't bet.
Rule #3 - if there are 5 points in a row, be able to triple your 2nd Don't bet.
Where this gets dicey, of course, is that if you're losing on 6 & 8 and winning on 4 and 10.
Set #1 (for a possible 4th Point)
$10, 60 odds, max win - 10 from the point, $60 for odds - $70 bet, $40 worst case if win, -$70 if lose
IF LOSE
Set #2 (for a possible 5th Point)
$30 Don't, $180 odds, max win will be $180 if win, -$210 if lose, worst win = $120, either at -$280 now or +50
IF LOSE
Set #3 (for a possible 6th Point)
$100 Don't, $600 odds, max win of $600, max loss, 700, worst case win = $400 and you're either up $120 or down $680.
If you lose here - go home unless you're prepared to keep pushing it but this means you need a $1,500 bankroll to comfortably bet against 7 points in a row.
Where you can get burned is seeing a few people point 4x... rare, but it's happened to me.
The other variable is if 7 is thrown on the come-out... the Wizard says "never hedge" but when I'm put'n $100 on the Don't, putting $25 on any red is something I choose to do because even if I'm wrong 4x in a row - on max bets if they do 7-out on the 6th roll, I'm basically even and it was quite a thrill and that's what I'm gambling for.
~F's H
I like your thinking. I also do something similar in my visits to the casino by placing $5.00 on the fire bet to "Hedge" my don't pass bet. At 4 points I have an opportunity to hedge an easy $600 dp in knowing that if the point is made I'm gonna be cashing in $1250 if shooter makes the point. and also a nice opportunity for a table max bet on the dp in knowing that if the shooter makes that 6th point, there is $5K waiting for me.
Quote: FrGambleI'm still working up the courage to play the darkside. Two quick questions: 1) Any stratagies to avoid either notice or getting anyone upset when playing the darkside?
Don't call for a seven-out. Other players hate that. You might even be disinvited from playing. If you bet on "Big Red" for the crew, don't do it after there's a point. Don't shoot the dice from the Don't Pass. When you're the only one stacking chips after a seven sweeps the table, don't gloat.
Quote: FrGamble2) Is it true that if the point is a six or eight (or any number you don't like) your don't bet doesn't have to travel?
I really don't know about that. There are no numbers I don't like since after you survive the come-out, you always have more ways to win than to lose. There are five ways to roll a six or eight, and six ways to roll a seven. If you don't play sixes and eights, you're giving up too much.
Also, watch those Don't Come bets! Dealers have a habit of sweeping them off the layout when a seven hits since they don't see it all that often.
Quote: FrGamble2) Is it true that if the point is a six or eight (or any number you don't like) your don't bet doesn't have to travel?
Any bet on the craps table that isn't a come bet or a pass line bet can be called off or canceled any roll or any time. This includes don't pass and don't come bets after they get a point. NEVER DO THIS. After you've survived the come-out roll, your don't bet has a big edge, no matter what the point is.
And as for shooting the dice I sure as hell will shoot from the don't if I feel like it. I just won't gloat if I 7 out, just like others shouldn't ridicule me for shooting and making the point.
Quote: KonbuI think you meant to bring it down because dp and dc can't be called off, just brought down.
I was under the impression that DP and DC bets can be called off for one roll if requested. They just use the off button.
Quote: sodawaterI was under the impression that DP and DC bets can be called off for one roll if requested. They just use the off button.
I don't understand the house's reasoning, but they won't use the 'Off' button on DP/DC bets or on Lay bets. You have to take them down completely. And, of course, you can't put a DP/DC back behind the number once it's taken down.
I guess I can understand not allowing it on a Don't Pass bet since it would get confusing if there was a 7-out when a DP was called 'Off'. *shrug*
Quote: Beethoven9thI don't understand the house's reasoning, but they won't use the 'Off' button on DP/DC bets or on Lay bets. You have to take them down completely. And, of course, you can't put a DP/DC back behind the number once it's taken down.
I guess I can understand not allowing it on a Don't Pass bet since it would get confusing if there was a 7-out when a DP was called 'Off'. *shrug*
Calling a place/buy/odds bet off is essentially just saving the dealer from taking it down and having to replace it when you call it back on.
Doing that with a DP/DC bet would technically be allowing you to bypass the 7/11, even though you had really already gotten through it.
Quote: wudgedDoing that with a DP/DC bet would technically be allowing you to bypass the 7/11, even though you had really already gotten through it.
Yeah, that's my entire point. It doesn't make sense if a player "had really already gotten through it". But those are the house's rules, so whatever.
Quote: Beethoven9thQuote: wudgedDoing that with a DP/DC bet would technically be allowing you to bypass the 7/11, even though you had really already gotten through it.
Yeah, that's my entire point. It doesn't make sense if a player "had really already gotten through it". But those are the house's rules, so whatever.
Why do people waste their time betting this way. There may be profit in a very short run of point-7 shooters but I've yet to see the ever-growing chips stacks in the trays of dark side players. I see many buy in with 500-2000 but damn if I actually see any try to double their bank roll.
I will admit the fire bet hedging was introduced to me by a dark side shooter and i've made quite a profit from "laying" the 5th & 6th point so i'm not gonna say that dark side shooters are all that bad.
I do get a kick out of the martingale field players chasing their bets up to max. :)
Quote: CrapsGenious
Why do people waste their time betting this way. There may be profit in a very short run of point-7 shooters but I've yet to see the ever-growing chips stacks in the trays of dark side players. I see many buy in with 500-2000 but damn if I actually see any try to double their bank roll.
Then you have never seen me play. I have done very well on the dark side. Not winning every session, for sure, but doing very well, thank you. FWIW, I could ask "Why do people waste their time betting this way?" with regards to the high house advantage center table bets. But to each his own.
Darth
Quote: Beethoven9thQuote: wudgedDoing that with a DP/DC bet would technically be allowing you to bypass the 7/11, even though you had really already gotten through it.
Yeah, that's my entire point. It doesn't make sense if a player "had really already gotten through it". But those are the house's rules, so whatever.
For the don't pass it would be annoying to maintain. A potential problem could be turning off your don't pass on a point of 6/8 and waiting until a 4/10 is set as the point and turning it back on. I've seen some places that will travel a don't pass to the actual box number, which could avoid this, however.
It also gets messy when a seven-out occurs and right-side bets have been turned off. Typically only one off lammer is used even if the player has multiple bets, and often the non-working bets get cleared when they shouldn't. An off lammer on DC bets would be the same outcome (just leave it in place and pay/clear everything else around it accordingly) but not allowing DC to be turned off eliminates further problems with this already "confusing" bet.
Another reason could be s2perstition (on the casino's part.) A player could wait for the DC to travel, turn it off, wait for x number of rolls or y number of repeats on that number before turning it back on. Of course it doesn't change anything, but why give back a +EV bet when the player decided to remove it?
Pure friggin "genious". *facepalm*Quote: CrapsGeniousWhy do people waste their time betting this way.
The same reason why people "waste their time" betting the Pass Line. (The HE is virtually the same on both bets)
I already brought this up in a previous post.Quote: wudgedFor the don't pass it would be annoying to maintain.
We're just arguing semantics here, but most players see a difference between removing a bet and wanting it 'Off' for just one roll.Quote: wudgedOf course it doesn't change anything, but why give back a +EV bet when the player decided to remove it?
Buy bets, Place bets, Odds, and Hardways.
The rest of the bets have to go through some sort of a qualifying roll (PL, CB, DP, DC), or are purely one roll bets, like Field, Horn, Hops, etc.
Allowing a player to turn "OFF" a CB or PL bet would not favor the house.
Allowing a player to turn "OFF" a DP or DC bet would favor the house, but then allowing the player to turn it back ON, means the player would get to bypass the come out roll, where the house has a distinct advantage. So the house will not allow you to turn it "OFF".
They will gladly let you take it down, since that active bet is in your favor, but then you have to go through the Don't come out process all over.
If there was any justice, people who don't let their Don't 6s and 8s play, would lose their money in 30 minutes, but that doesn't happen.
I was playing with a guy one night who never travels his Don't 6 or 8, so I cut a deal with him that I would give him the money and take the bet off his hands. We just kept track of it ourselves, as I was pretty sure the crew would not allow me to take over the bet. I ended up losing most of the bets, and now he uses that as even more evidence that his play is correct.
Quote: RaleighCrapsBets that the casino will let you call "OFF", are bets which you can put up or take down at any time.
Buy bets, Place bets, Odds, and Hardways.
Yeah but not always. For example, they won't usually let you call Lay bets off, even though you can put those up or take them down at any time. If you have a "no 10" bet, and tell the dealer that you want it off for one roll, he will take it down and give the chips back to you. Of course you can wait 1 roll, give him the chips right back and put the bet back up.
Quote: CrapsGenious
Why do people waste their time betting this way. There may be profit in a very short run of point-7 shooters but I've yet to see the ever-growing chips stacks in the trays of dark side players. I see many buy in with 500-2000 but damn if I actually see any try to double their bank roll.
If you don't see it, there are reasons for that:
1) You don't see many dark side players. Often, I'm all alone there on the Don't Pass
2) When all the right side players are moaning and groaning as they watch the dealers sweep the Pass line, numbers, and Hardways clean, I'm quietly racking up my chips. I don't crow about it, and I don't cheer for a seven before the shooter rolls.
3) I never touch the dice
4) Right players don't usually stick around when the dice are rolling seven-outs so they're not there to see how I do.
5) Right players are given a plethora of ways to squander their winnings. There aren't so many for the darkside. No such thing as an "anti-hardway" bet, for example. That's something I don't see very often: right side players who actually take it home.
Just last week, saw some guy rack up $30,000+ from a hot roll. It took him about 45 minutes to unload all of it. That's something I seldom see: right side players walking with the winnings.
No appreciation for odds and probabilities; no understanding of how unusual it is to roll a string of a couple dozen numbers without seeing a seven, no understanding of how long the odds are for shooting ten passes in a row.
Dark players tend to understand this, and are less likely try to win the title to the casino.
+1Quote: AxiomOfChoiceFor example, they won't usually let you call Lay bets off, even though you can put those up or take them down at any time.
