MrV
MrV
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April 30th, 2012 at 8:53:07 AM permalink
This one is for those who believe in dice control; better yet, it is for those few, if any, who have worked at it and genuinely believe they now have some form of advantage.

Have you experimented with using water as an agent to temporarily cause the dice to stick together when tossed?

It shouldn't be too difficult to envision a scenario where a shooter regularly daubs a bit of H20 on his hand from a water cup, then applies a bit to the dice before tossing them.

Properly done, it would seem to be undetectable.
"What, me worry?"
MrRalph
MrRalph
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April 30th, 2012 at 8:57:42 AM permalink
That would not be Dice Control it would be cheating. I am quite certain the jail time would not be worth the knowledge gained.
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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April 30th, 2012 at 9:03:30 AM permalink
To what end? Do you think the dice would stay together after the initial impact with the table or wall?
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
MrV
MrV
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April 30th, 2012 at 9:04:27 AM permalink
I personally do not believe in DI.

One reason: the inablility to keep the dice together while flying through the air.

Bonding them together for a fleeting moment via surface tension might control one of the variables.

Of course, the 800 pound gorilla on the table is: how do they stay on axis and under control once they hit the felt?

Could be tough to convict for cheating, and if it works, a big bettor might be willing to take a shot using it every once in awhile: certainly not every time, as the Eye and the crew should spot it.

Properly done, the shooter could argue it was inadvertent is he is caught.

Anyway, all I want to know is this: has anyone who actually believes in DI tried it, and did it work?

Even if only tried at home ...
"What, me worry?"
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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April 30th, 2012 at 10:06:34 AM permalink
Water doesn't work but a mixture of shrimp brine and caviar does.
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No. of course I've never tried it. I just wonder how many people would think it was a serious response and how many would wonder how on earth I happened upon the combination.
s2dbaker
s2dbaker
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April 30th, 2012 at 10:56:07 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

Water doesn't work but a mixture of shrimp brine and caviar does.

I thought it was the uncurdled blood from the horn of a freshly killed Unicorn, but what do I know.
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
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April 30th, 2012 at 11:01:14 AM permalink
I also doubt it would work.

But, true story: years ago at MGM the dice were so sticky that they not only held together, but they were almost glued to my finger tips when I tried to make an "easy release."

That's what you get from syrupy, sticky drinks, blowing on dice, kissing dice, wiping bodily fluids from the mouth and nose and ears on dice.

I made them clean all five dice before I would throw again, and it wasnt hard for me to convince them to do it. I asked for all five dice after the throw, put my palm on top of all five, and all five stuck to hand like glue.
Ayecarumba
Ayecarumba
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April 30th, 2012 at 11:22:40 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

I also doubt it would work.

But, true story: years ago at MGM the dice were so sticky that they not only held together, but they were almost glued to my finger tips when I tried to make an "easy release."

That's what you get from syrupy, sticky drinks, blowing on dice, kissing dice, wiping bodily fluids from the mouth and nose and ears on dice.

I made them clean all five dice before I would throw again, and it wasnt hard for me to convince them to do it. I asked for all five dice after the throw, put my palm on top of all five, and all five stuck to hand like glue.



That's very interesting... and gross.

If the dice were, "glued" together by the biofilm so that they did not break apart after impact with the back wall, would the stick simply call it, "no roll"?
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
AlanMendelson
AlanMendelson
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April 30th, 2012 at 11:34:30 AM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

That's very interesting... and gross.

If the dice were, "glued" together by the biofilm so that they did not break apart after impact with the back wall, would the stick simply call it, "no roll"?



I dont know the answer to your question. But one of the reasons why the stickman "shuffles" the dice on the table after roll and before pushing back the dice to the shooter is to make sure there is no "sticky substance" on the dice. They don't tell you that, and dealers might not realize that's what they're doing, but that tradition goes way back. Sometimes its done under the guise of showing the point on the dice when they push them back to the shooter. But the real reason has always been to be sure there is nothing sticky on the dice.

With sticky dice I dont think the intention would be to have them stay together. I think the cheat would want to have the "stick" applied to a certain face to alter the chances of certain numbers showing... like having the six stick to the felt.

When I interviewed NGC officials several years ago for a story, this was one of the things they discussed -- having a face stick to the felt, but never sticking the dice together to keep them together during a throw.

But if you do want to practice your throw, a couple of pieces of scotch tape on two dice will help you get the feel for a correct throw. That's taught in some of the dice influencing classes and books.
ewjones080
ewjones080
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May 8th, 2012 at 3:57:44 AM permalink
Awhile back I wanted to use SortKwik, not to keep the dice together, but to get a better grip, as my hands sometimes dry out and the dice become a little slippery. I thought this would dramatically improve my throw, but after just 10-20 minutes at home, it didn't really make any difference, so I didn't use it. Lately I've found that I don't really need it anyway

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