Why doesn't everyone just play the Don't Pass Bar
February 20th, 2012 at 6:03:38 AM
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Hi I am from Perth Australia and we do not have a craps table at our casino.
So might be a dumb question but in the Don't Pass Bar is better odds why doesn't everyone bet it instead of the Pass bar?? I know it is known as the dark side but if everyone bets it then the whole table can still be winning or losing together but with better odds??
So might be a dumb question but in the Don't Pass Bar is better odds why doesn't everyone bet it instead of the Pass bar?? I know it is known as the dark side but if everyone bets it then the whole table can still be winning or losing together but with better odds??
February 20th, 2012 at 6:26:10 AM
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Quote: dwarneHi I am from Perth Australia and we do not have a craps table at our casino.
So might be a dumb question but in the Don't Pass Bar is better odds why doesn't everyone bet it instead of the Pass bar?? I know it is known as the dark side but if everyone bets it then the whole table can still be winning or losing together but with better odds??
First, most craps players don't care about better odds. That's why most craps players play the hardaways, horns, and c&e bets.
Second, even people who like low odds (like myself) don't like betting to lose. I understand you could look at the game differently, but if everybody played the don't, you're switching dice all the time and losing becomes the new winning. To be honest, a hot shooter on craps is about as exciting as it gets in a casino. The energy flowing, people increasing bets, it's just exhilarating. A don't bettor doesn't get to experience that, and the vibe would never get there if everybody was dark siding it.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
February 20th, 2012 at 6:30:40 AM
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First off, the difference in the house edge is minor, so tradition plays a big part in it.
Part of it comes from the way the game is introduced to newbies. If you attend one of the casino's free craps lessons, they will start with the basics: pass line and odds. Then they'll talk about how a come bet (with odds) is just like a pass bet, but after the point is established. Then they'll talk about the place bets, and finally the field and hard ways, because they're popular and simple. They'll mention the Dont's as well as the prop bets, but they'll do it in a way that suggests that they are advanced concepts, and a newbie should get familiar with the basics first.
The other part comes from the fact that a wrong side shooter will retain the dice when he loses. Who wants that? So the tradition is to be a right side shooter. And players generally will bet WITH the shooter. Or at least with the dice, which means right side betting.
I think the fact that dark side is also called 'wrong' actually has very little to do with it.
For what it's worth, a few months ago, there was a discussion here about creating a craps game that favored wrong betting. The single change in the game would be that the shooter lost the dice when he MADE a point. A LOT of people liked the idea.....
Part of it comes from the way the game is introduced to newbies. If you attend one of the casino's free craps lessons, they will start with the basics: pass line and odds. Then they'll talk about how a come bet (with odds) is just like a pass bet, but after the point is established. Then they'll talk about the place bets, and finally the field and hard ways, because they're popular and simple. They'll mention the Dont's as well as the prop bets, but they'll do it in a way that suggests that they are advanced concepts, and a newbie should get familiar with the basics first.
The other part comes from the fact that a wrong side shooter will retain the dice when he loses. Who wants that? So the tradition is to be a right side shooter. And players generally will bet WITH the shooter. Or at least with the dice, which means right side betting.
I think the fact that dark side is also called 'wrong' actually has very little to do with it.
For what it's worth, a few months ago, there was a discussion here about creating a craps game that favored wrong betting. The single change in the game would be that the shooter lost the dice when he MADE a point. A LOT of people liked the idea.....
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
February 20th, 2012 at 6:33:51 AM
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P.S.
Tiltpoul has two great points.
Most people don't know or care about the odds / house edge. Proof: Blackjack that pays 6:5 and double zero Roulette.
There IS something to say about the energy created by a hot shooter.
Tiltpoul has two great points.
Most people don't know or care about the odds / house edge. Proof: Blackjack that pays 6:5 and double zero Roulette.
There IS something to say about the energy created by a hot shooter.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
February 20th, 2012 at 6:41:23 AM
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Quote: dwarnethe whole table can still be winning or losing together but with better odds??
Remember the odds are reversed on the come out roll. You have EIGHT ways to lose and only 3 ways to win on the come out roll. Once you get past that deficiency, than you have better odds than the pass. :)
February 20th, 2012 at 7:58:21 AM
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Personally I play the pass since You need a larger bankroll on the don't to cover the odds. While you get true odds (no house edge) this lager bet scares people off.
February 20th, 2012 at 8:15:05 AM
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That reminds me of another reason.
Laying more odds than the amount that will be paid, rubs people the wrong way.
Laying more odds than the amount that will be paid, rubs people the wrong way.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
February 20th, 2012 at 8:26:13 AM
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Quote: whatmePersonally I play the pass since You need a larger bankroll on the don't to cover the odds. While you get true odds (no house edge) this lager bet scares people off.
That's important, too.
I learned to play craps, really, using the WinCraps sim program. one thign you elarn once you hit the tables, is that making bets with money is a bit different (she understated). So, for example, laying 10X odds on the scrren doens't feel the same as when you do it with real money...
But that also goes for making multiple come bets with odds. More so since a seven can wipe out a whole lot of bets.
Now I'll usually play a pass line bet with odds, and will add come bets sporadically. At Rapid Craps,w here players can't see your action, I still play the Dark Side with multiple don't come bets with odds sometimes. There a seven wins you a lot of bets.
It's a complicated game to play. I think there are more questions about betting strategy about craps than about all other games combined.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
February 20th, 2012 at 8:59:59 AM
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True. Whether its some sort of shared frenetic energy generated at the table or what, people are generally trying to Win Big rather than merely to win. The desire is for Action! A horn bet is a way of making four bad bets simultaneously... but you only need ONE of those four to hit and you've got that desired "WIN" even if its just a lousy two quarters dropping into the tray! For many players it seems to be whoop and holler and the "win" something even if it ain't all that much.Quote: TiltpoulFirst, most craps players don't care about better odds. That's why most craps players play the hardaways, horns, and c&e bets.
My companion's second craps session involved her gripes about betting a sum of money to win less. She hated it even though she understood she was betting on the favorite. Its just plain unpopular no matter how it looks mathematically.
February 20th, 2012 at 9:14:54 AM
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1.364% vs 1.414% is insignificant. We're talking 1 time out of 2,000. Most players play with the stigma that you want to MAKE your point and shoot for a long time, not 7 out right away. Pass line is how the game is taught.
-----
You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
February 20th, 2012 at 10:06:05 AM
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At $10 a hand on an 80 roll per hour game the expected loss is:
Pass
10 * 80 * 0.0042 = $3.36
Don't Pass
10 * 80 * 0.0040 = $3.20
The don't pass bettor saves 16 cents per hour at the expense of not getting to cheer with the table and all the other points mentioned above.
Pass
10 * 80 * 0.0042 = $3.36
Don't Pass
10 * 80 * 0.0040 = $3.20
The don't pass bettor saves 16 cents per hour at the expense of not getting to cheer with the table and all the other points mentioned above.
February 20th, 2012 at 10:15:31 AM
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Quote: PopCanAt $10 a hand on an 80 roll per hour game the expected loss is:
Pass
10 * 80 * 0.0042 = $3.36
Don't Pass
10 * 80 * 0.0040 = $3.20
The don't pass bettor saves 16 cents per hour at the expense of not getting to cheer with the table and all the other points mentioned above.
A long time ago I ran a calculation to determine how long a player would have to play don't vs. pass to determine that his improved results were due to his betting choice and not variance. I can't remember the computation now, but the answer was "longer than you're going to be playing dice". In other words, the variances inherent in both pass and don't are so large compared to the EV differences between them that there's no practical reason to play one over the other.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
February 20th, 2012 at 1:01:15 PM
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It should be added here that a strict Don't Pass/DON'T COME bettor (emphasis on the Don't come) can have as much fun with the rest of the table, if the shooter is rolling a few numbers, making points, then 7 on subsequent come out rolls. One of the only other white tiles players at HSI sat down one night I was playing Tiles and said he had a good night playing DP/DC, while the table was winning, simply b/c the shooter was rolling a lot of 7s on come out rolls, and not rerolling numbers during points.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
February 20th, 2012 at 1:21:21 PM
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I must be doing it wrong. When I bet the pass line, I'm usually walking away from the table $70 lighter after only about 40 minutes.Quote: PopCanAt $10 a hand on an 80 roll per hour game the expected loss is:
Pass
10 * 80 * 0.0042 = $3.36
Don't Pass
10 * 80 * 0.0040 = $3.20
The don't pass bettor saves 16 cents per hour at the expense of not getting to cheer with the table and all the other points mentioned above.
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
February 20th, 2012 at 1:57:41 PM
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One point about the don't pass/don't come that hasn't been mentioned yet is the convoluted odds calculation.
Whatever the table odds are is the maximum amount of money you can win for don't odds. You have to back calculate -- given the point -- how much you can bet. So with x3-4-5 odds on a point of 4 on a $5 don't you can win 3 times your don't pass/don't come bet which means you can win $15. However you have to double that amount because it's 1 to 2 on a point of 4 so you're betting $30. In fact you always lay odds of $30 since on a 5 or 9 you can win $20 and $25 on 6 or 8. Your lay odds bet is constant, but pays you different amounts based on the point.
With pass/come you simply multiply the pass bet by the odds. So for our $5 example you simply put 3 reds behind on a 4 or 10, 4 reds on a 5 or 9 and 5 reds on a 6 or 8. You win a constant amount of $30. I seems cleaner to be betting the pass/come.
That said my play is about 50/50 -- pass or don't pass. I depends on my mood, how the table is doing, and what kind of bankroll I have since don't requires a larger initial outlay.
Whatever the table odds are is the maximum amount of money you can win for don't odds. You have to back calculate -- given the point -- how much you can bet. So with x3-4-5 odds on a point of 4 on a $5 don't you can win 3 times your don't pass/don't come bet which means you can win $15. However you have to double that amount because it's 1 to 2 on a point of 4 so you're betting $30. In fact you always lay odds of $30 since on a 5 or 9 you can win $20 and $25 on 6 or 8. Your lay odds bet is constant, but pays you different amounts based on the point.
With pass/come you simply multiply the pass bet by the odds. So for our $5 example you simply put 3 reds behind on a 4 or 10, 4 reds on a 5 or 9 and 5 reds on a 6 or 8. You win a constant amount of $30. I seems cleaner to be betting the pass/come.
That said my play is about 50/50 -- pass or don't pass. I depends on my mood, how the table is doing, and what kind of bankroll I have since don't requires a larger initial outlay.
February 20th, 2012 at 2:08:13 PM
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It's not tht complicated. Your max odds on the don't pass don't come on a 3-4-5 table are just your flat bet times six.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
February 20th, 2012 at 2:17:44 PM
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I did once see a table full of Don't betters, but I imagine it's pretty rare. If I'm on my own I sometimes do three Don't Pass/Come bets and pray for the seven out. if someone else is shooting I sometimes have fun and do one Don't Come bet if someone the other end is shooting, but Pass if it's our end - just adds a bit of fun. Another slim advantage is your odds always work for Don't bets on the come out.
February 20th, 2012 at 3:09:01 PM
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I like to play the don't when the table is cold, and play the right side when it's hot.
Now only if I could accurately predict this trend ;)...
Now only if I could accurately predict this trend ;)...
February 20th, 2012 at 3:34:56 PM
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Quote: boymimbo1.364% vs 1.414% is insignificant. We're talking 1 time out of 2,000. Most players play with the stigma that you want to MAKE your point and shoot for a long time, not 7 out right away. Pass line is how the game is taught.
Exactly! What's that, about 5 cents HA out of every $100 you bet? I rarely see a happy wrong bettor! Pass & come with full odds. I don't care to switch from pass to don't pass. You end up zigging when you should have zagged. The best winning strategy is to walk when you are ahead. I've won $1000 in 20 minutes and then ran from the table.
February 20th, 2012 at 3:49:17 PM
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Quote: dwarneHi I am from Perth Australia and we do not have a craps table at our casino.
So might be a dumb question but in the Don't Pass Bar is better odds why doesn't everyone bet it instead of the Pass bar?? I know it is known as the dark side but if everyone bets it then the whole table can still be winning or losing together but with better odds??
The improvement in probabilities is 1 extra win in 1980 bets resolved. But if you remember that a 12 on a come out is a push, then the improvement is only 2 extra wins in 17,325 bets played ( a multiple of 4+3/8).
Personally, I reserve the phrase, "playing the dark side" only for those times when you play the Don't Pass and you are also throwing the dice. I would never do that.
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Just an aside on terminology:
When making a bet where you must put more at stake than you stand to win, you are laying the odds or laying the bet.
It is more common to make a bet where you must put less at stake than you stand to win. Then you are taking the odds.
When referring to the odds most people mean either (1) the true probabilities of the outcome, or (2) a bet where the payouts are proportional to the true probabilities (sometimes called "free odds"). An older meaning of the phrase "the odds" is the ratio of the larger number to the smaller one in an unequal bet. It is this latter definition that is being used when you are taking/laying odds. If I bet you $300 of my money to $100 of your money that you won't get an accurate phone number of a girl of my choosing, then I am "laying odds" and you are "taking odds". There is no way to calculate the true probability of the bet being resolved in anyone's favor, so the "odds" refers to the 3:1 ratio of the payout.
February 20th, 2012 at 5:08:44 PM
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Quote: pacomartinPersonally, I reserve the phrase, "playing the dark side" only for those times when you play the Don't Pass and you are also throwing the dice. I would never do that.
You wound me sir! 8-)
My own supersitions tell me I roll a lot of 7's so if I happen to be playing don'ts and the dice come to me I bet don't pass. I get a lot of quizzical looks from people doing that though on my roll.
I try not to flip-flop. For the session, I make up my mind depending on how I'm feeling, and what I see at the table for my decision on pass/don't pass.
As for the terminology, I've tried to always say "laying odds" when posting about the don't here at WoV. However I've probably been lazy about saying "taking odds" for the pass line. I've probably just used the term "odds".
--helpmespock
February 20th, 2012 at 6:10:42 PM
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Quote: YoyomamaI rarely see a happy wrong bettor! Pass & come with full odds.
That is because they usually restrain themselves so well. It avoids the wrath of the losing bettors.
February 20th, 2012 at 6:32:27 PM
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Thanks guys for all the feedback, its been great. I am going to a casion in Melbourne next month that has a craps table so once I play it I will understand the atmosphere side to it all.
And all the guys that crunched the numbers to show that the advantage will not matter unless I plan to play 3 days straight, much appreciated
And all the guys that crunched the numbers to show that the advantage will not matter unless I plan to play 3 days straight, much appreciated
February 20th, 2012 at 7:19:59 PM
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Quote: dwarneI am going to a casion in Melbourne next month that has a craps table so once I play it I will understand the atmosphere side to it all.
Good luck and enjoy the journey. But you should know that like sink drains and toilets, the dice spin in a reverse direction south of the Equator. ;-)
February 20th, 2012 at 11:29:25 PM
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Quote: SanchoPanzaThat is because they usually restrain themselves so well. It avoids the wrath of the losing bettors.
Yep. Unless I'm rolling all by myself at a table, I try not to cheer when I win on the dark side.
Now, some of my best craps sessions, in terms of results, were just those times when I was all alone at a table in the middle of the night, playing don't pass/don't come against myself. It's fun in those situations because you get to keep the dice when you seven-out and win.
One of my favorite craps sessions started out like this, and I was winning a bit here and there. I attracted some attention and then two or three other guys joined in and all played the don't side with me. It was fun, it really messes up the dealer lingo. "Winner seven! I mean..." One dealer said something like "man I wish I could take a picture of this," pointing to all the bets on the don't pass.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
February 21st, 2012 at 5:28:32 AM
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Quote: AcesAndEightsNow, some of my best craps sessions, in terms of results, were just those times when I was all alone at a table in the middle of the night, playing don't pass/don't come against myself. It's fun in those situations because you get to keep the dice when you seven-out and win.
Yes indeed. I live in the Eastern timezone so when I hit Las Vegas 5AM local is my 8AM. Each morning during my trips I let my wife sleep in and I wander off to the Casino Royale and play at 6AM. I've often had the table to myself and play don't pass/don't come.
There's nothing better than having a don't pass and a don't come up at the same time and seeing the seven show up. Although I'm a chicken. I usually only follow with a don't come if the don't pass point is 4 or 10. If things are rolling well on the don'ts I get braver, but I'm always a little nervous when I'm sitting on both 6 and 8 for the don't pass/don't come.
--helpmespock
February 21st, 2012 at 6:29:59 AM
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Quote: pacomartinPersonally, I reserve the phrase, "playing the dark side" only for those times when you play the Don't Pass and you are also throwing the dice. I would never do that.
I am often shooting "From the Don't, Hoping They Won't". When its my turn to shoot, I actually consider how I've been doing and often decide to shoot from Don't. It has no effect on whether others win or lose their bets.
This phrase "dark side" is often used but one casino called an entire crew in when one player interpreted it as a reference to the end of the table with largely players who were black. (And when a dealer called out "Black in Play" referring to a new player's chip, one lady from the South said "Oh, please don't make a fuss, I don't mind if he plays with us").
By the way, thanks for the "aside on terminology". Its nice to have a succinct and precise reminder from time to time. We all tend to get a bit sloppy and inconsistent even on this site.
===========
Just an aside on terminology:
When making a bet where you must put more at stake than you stand to win, you are laying the odds or laying the bet.
It is more common to make a bet where you must put less at stake than you stand to win. Then you are taking the odds.
When referring to the odds most people mean either (1) the true probabilities of the outcome, or (2) a bet where the payouts are proportional to the true probabilities (sometimes called "free odds"). An older meaning of the phrase "the odds" is the ratio of the larger number to the smaller one in an unequal bet. It is this latter definition that is being used when you are taking/laying odds. If I bet you $300 of my money to $100 of your money that you won't get an accurate phone number of a girl of my choosing, then I am "laying odds" and you are "taking odds". There is no way to calculate the true probability of the bet being resolved in anyone's favor, so the "odds" refers to the 3:1 ratio of the payout.
February 21st, 2012 at 7:15:58 AM
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Quote: FleaStiffBy the way, thanks for the "aside on terminology". Its nice to have a succinct and precise reminder from time to time. We all tend to get a bit sloppy and inconsistent even on this site.
It's tricky sometimes. If I say to you "I'll lay odds at $2 to $1 that Santorum wins the Michigan primary", and you respond "I'll only take $2.5 to $1"; it is pretty clear that in this case 'odds' refers to what I am willing to pay and what you are willing accept. We wouldn't normally use the words 'lay' and 'take' if it was an even money bet. Whether the bet is a good or bad bet is unknowable.
The Wizard always lays odds on the Oscars, and he never takes odds. He is of the opinion that upsets in the Academy Award are very rare.
But look at this quote from the Wizard's site.
Quote: WizardofOdds.comLaying the Odds
This is the opposite of taking odds, in other words betting that a seven will be rolled before the point. It is called Taking the Odds if you bet on a point after a Pass bet. It is called Laying Odds if you bet against a point after a Don't Pass bet. In both cases the odds are statistically fair, with no house edge. To be specific Laying the Odds against a 4 or 10 pays 1 to 2, against a 5 or 9 pays 2 to 3, and against a 6 or 8 pays 5 to 6.
Technically, the player is always "taking odds" if he stands to win more than he bets, and always "laying odds" if he stands to make less than he bets. But in this case the "payouts" are not arbitrarily chosen, but are set to equal the true probabilities. So we are combining the two definitions: (1) odds='true probability of occurrence, and (2) odds="amount by which one thing exceeds or falls short of another (first recorded in the 1540s)".
February 21st, 2012 at 11:45:59 AM
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If we're getting into terminology, why in the hell do people call them "free odds" bets? They're not free! You're paying for them with the pass/don't bass bet! I understand that the odds bet pays true odds and thus has a 0% HE, but it's not a free bet, you are obligated to pay for it with the house edge on the prerequisite bet. Now the Santa Ana, that's a different story.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
February 21st, 2012 at 2:15:14 PM
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I was at a choppy table tonight. I played the Don't sometimes. Everytime I did that, I have to avoid eye contact with people, especially when the shooter was right next to me. Sure, the seven came out and I won. Watching everybody lost hundred of dollars, and I won $10, wasn't fun at all.
February 21st, 2012 at 2:33:58 PM
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Quote: AcesAndEightsIf we're getting into terminology, why in the hell do people call them "free odds" bets? They're not free! You're paying for them with the pass/don't bass bet! I understand that the odds bet pays true odds and thus has a 0% HE, but it's not a free bet, you are obligated to pay for it with the house edge on the prerequisite bet. Now the Santa Ana, that's a different story.
I've seen the terminology No Call Bets before. For the longest time, I thought that meant you had to lay at least twice the amount of your pass line bet, since you couldn't CALL it (like in poker).
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
February 21st, 2012 at 3:16:07 PM
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Quote: dwarneHi I am from Perth Australia and we do not have a craps table at our casino.
So might be a dumb question but in the Don't Pass Bar is better odds why doesn't everyone bet it instead of the Pass bar?? I know it is known as the dark side but if everyone bets it then the whole table can still be winning or losing together but with better odds??
The main reason is that even though Don't Pass has slightly lower house edge, it also has lower variance, making it more unlikely to end up N bets ahead, if N is large enough. The variance of Pass line bet (with max odds) is higher and so is the chance for ending up several units ahead before the house edge catches up on you.
There was previous discussion of measuring the "goodness" of a bet in a negative expectation game. It was suggested that one should not look at house edge value only but rather quotient house edge/variance to weigh such bets. Pass Line bet seems to be the better one of the two according to this measure.
February 21st, 2012 at 3:23:41 PM
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They are a separate bet and there is no commission charged the player for getting them. Yes, you have to already have a line bet and you have to have already treked to the casino and a few other things but its "free" in the sense that they do not levy a surcharge or any sort.Quote: AcesAndEightsIf we're getting into terminology, why in the hell do people call them "free odds" bets? They're not free!
February 21st, 2012 at 3:28:28 PM
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Call bets in craps are bets called out by the player usually as he is approaching the table. If the bet wins, the player waits there to be paid. If the bet loses, often the player beats a hasty retreat. So the No Call Bets is on the layout to show that they do it only if you have chips in the tray or they like you for some reason.
Call bets in roulette are a bit different, they too are verbal bets but the roulette player still must position the money for the dealer. The dealer will re-position the call bets on the many different squares if he needs to pay off, but usually the dealer has a layout position for a "call bet". Call bets at roulette are very popular in the Ukraine and in the UK.
Call bets in roulette are a bit different, they too are verbal bets but the roulette player still must position the money for the dealer. The dealer will re-position the call bets on the many different squares if he needs to pay off, but usually the dealer has a layout position for a "call bet". Call bets at roulette are very popular in the Ukraine and in the UK.
February 21st, 2012 at 3:31:57 PM
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Technically, a call bet at roulette is a bet with no money on the table.
An announced bet is verbally spoken bet, confirmed by the croupier, with money on the table.
An announced bet is verbally spoken bet, confirmed by the croupier, with money on the table.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
February 21st, 2012 at 3:47:31 PM
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Quote: sam46810I was at a choppy table tonight. I played the Don't sometimes. Everytime I did that, I have to avoid eye contact with people, especially when the shooter was right next to me. Sure, the seven came out and I won. Watching everybody lost hundred of dollars, and I won $10, wasn't fun at all.
Some consider it rude to bet the don't when you're beside the shooter and you're next. Often I ask the shooter if they're fine with me betting don't. I tell them I'll be betting don't when it's my turn to shoot and they often express surprise and tell me it's fine and bet however I want.
If they express reservations I'll either join them on the pass or sit that shooter out until my shot.
--helpmespock
February 21st, 2012 at 3:56:46 PM
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Quote: FleaStiffThey are a separate bet and there is no commission charged the player for getting them. Yes, you have to already have a line bet and you have to have already treked to the casino and a few other things but its "free" in the sense that they do not levy a surcharge or any sort.
They DO levy a surcharge, it is the house edge on the line bet. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this terminology.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
February 21st, 2012 at 4:30:29 PM
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The term 'free' odds was doubtlessly coined by someone working for the casino....
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
February 21st, 2012 at 6:49:22 PM
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Quote: sam46810The seven came out and I won. Watching everybody lost hundred of dollars, and I won $10, wasn't fun at all.
If the others lost hundreds on a $10 table, they were presumably able to afford it. There is no good reason for anyone to have strong feelings about that either way. And if winning money doesn't add to the fun, craps or other gambles may not be your cup of tea.
February 21st, 2012 at 6:52:04 PM
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Quote: helpmespockIf they express reservations I'll either join them on the pass or sit that shooter out until my shot.
If they express reservations, they don't grasp the basics of the game. They, too, can sit it out for a while.
February 22nd, 2012 at 5:30:04 AM
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Quote: SanchoPanzaIf they express reservations, they don't grasp the basics of the game. They, too, can sit it out for a while.
My general rule is try not to ruin other people's fun -- they're on vacation just like me. I always clap or congratulate the shooter on making their point even if I'm on the don't.
When people ask, I usually just tell them it's a different way to play and that the difference between the two is 0.05% so betting pass or don't pass really doesn't matter. Play how you feel comfortable.
--helpmespock
February 22nd, 2012 at 7:33:17 PM
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meh. No one likes betting with the House. The object is to bet against the Evil Empire and win riches beyond imagination.
You think I'm kidding?, I'm not. Proof: slot players.
You think I'm kidding?, I'm not. Proof: slot players.
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
February 23rd, 2012 at 5:44:58 AM
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Quote: 98Clubsmeh. No one likes betting with the House. The object is to bet against the Evil Empire and win riches beyond imagination.
You think I'm kidding?, I'm not. Proof: slot players.
Both pass and don't pass have a negative expectation. We're both against the house just in different ways.
--helpmespock
